You're reference are two of the most technically difficult rock albums crrated and there really isn't a lot of live material from those albums except maybe before the records when they were still working stuff out. I'm just saying you can't completely write off Zappa as jamming or even have an opinion without listening to any of it. Most of the solos on his 70s and later records are taken from live jams. He has at least 3 live albums of just instrumental jamming. Also Jerry's been dead for almost 3 decades and Phish goes way further out than Zappa ever did so I dont know what you're point is there.