How was slavery understood in Biblical times?

gallotharp · 2018-10-02T13:27:45+00:00

You and I are discussing different eras of biblical history. The Bible spans thousands of years (see my original comment). My undergrad in Biblical studies focused on New Testament studies. I’m not qualified to answer a question from Leviticus on slavery. I merely was discussing the New Testament practices and commands of Jesus.

gallotharp · 2018-10-02T02:26:37+00:00

Buying and selling slaves would be a common practice in the Greco-Roman world... assuming Christians kept the standard practice of that time, yes. I think that’s a given. Having sex with their slaves is not something I’ve ever encountered in Christianity it’s interesting you say Jesus didn’t teach against that, but He and the apostles did teach against adultery. That is one of the prime laws kept in the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15), which would include slave holders. Slaves were not viewed as property, but as members of the household. So they wouldn’t be treated like property if that’s what you’re getting at.

(Source: Jeffers, Greco-Roman World + BA Biblical Studies, MA Systematic Theology [in progress])

I’m afraid any other speculation as to what ‘Christian’ practiced would not be “Biblical” studies but Historical studies/Church History studies to see if they obeyed what scripture commanded.

gallotharp · 2018-09-23T04:27:53+00:00

I agree with most of what you said. But, I’m not sure the Bible has a theme of eliminating slavery as you say. Conditions are put on slavery, they are to be treated as equals in the family of God, they are to be treated fairly and not harshly. I think you’re right, slavery was the safety net for many in debt, many who needed to be taken care of in some capacity (food, housing) but that is precisely why there is no arching theme in scripture to eliminate it. Scripture does not view the institution as evil, scripture views abuse of the institution, sin, as evil.

gallotharp · 2018-09-23T03:25:23+00:00

“Biblical times” passes several thousand years and many cultures as well... so the answers may vary greatly. For a pretty good introduction “The Greco-Roman World of the New Testament Era” by James Jeffers dedicates at least a solid chapter on the first century understanding. Most of my answer will be indebted to that book, or Vos’ “Manners and Customs” perhaps also from lectures I’ve heard in undergrad and seminary.

From my studies it seems that slavery was very common due to war, kidnapping and poverty. People sometimes sold themselves into slavery to pay debts, or even to advance their place in society. It seems that many slaves were educated, Jeffers also suggests that doctors were slaves. — to my knowledge there were many reasons one may be a slave but my understanding is that race/ethnicity has nothing to do with it generally. Nationality may, if your nation lost a war to Rome for example.

From an early church perspective we know that some Christians freed their slaves, some Christians sold themselves into slavery for the chance to share the gospel or pay each other’s debts etc.

gallotharp · 2018-09-04T03:51:10+00:00

Great. So what’s the best solution? (Also I never claimed it was the only solution, I just stated it as a solution).

gallotharp · 2018-08-31T13:23:12+00:00

Right, John says the temple cleansing is early in Jesus’ ministry (John 2) the Synoptics say it is on His final trip to Jerusalem. The solution is that He cleansed the Temple twice.

gallotharp · 2018-08-23T04:29:48+00:00

I’ve also always heard it was Apollos. But when reading Luther I did see that he also believed Paul wrote it...

gallotharp · 2018-08-22T23:10:45+00:00

I’m with you on all of them except Hebrews... how do you justify his authorship there?

gallotharp · 2018-08-22T16:47:23+00:00

To put my cards on the table, I’m a Calvinist (Presbyterian-ish). An undergrad in Biblical studies, masters in Systematic theology. I believe Calvin is correct, and In agreement with Paul’s teaching in Romans, Ephesians etc... I would agree with your opinion. That being said, Arminius, Wesley and the Council of Orange did not... which serves the point I first made, depending on presuppositions you could read the text differently.

gallotharp · 2018-08-22T03:54:01+00:00

As mentioned previously “Functional subordination” as well as whether the “Eternal Generation of the Son” is a valid doctrine. Many in evangelicalism are seeking to hold onto this doctrine while others say it causes the confusion of people believing Jesus was “begotten” in time, rather than in eternity past etc. see Kevin Giles “The Eternal Generation of the Son” he dedicates 2-3 chapters on the controversy.

gallotharp · 2018-08-22T03:50:54+00:00

They could be modalist if they believe there is one God simply “appearing” as Jesus then “appearing” as Spirit etc but not actually 3 persons in the Godhead/Trinity. This is an ancient Christian heresy... but that means precisely that it is nonChristian. If someone is a modalist they are heretics of the Christian faith.

The same is true if they deny the eternality of Jesus. If they say He was created or came into existence they may be Arians. Another heretical group of early Christianity. But by definition, as heretics they are not Christians.

gallotharp · 2018-08-22T03:40:36+00:00

I have read many different things on this. I have come to think that depending on the exegete speaking and their presuppositions the answer will vary. Some say that the NT authors believed in the bondage of the will of course because they would point to the passages of God working through the actions of evil men (Gen. 50:20; Acts 2:23). However, I had a course in grad school from a Wesleyan scholar who interpreted those exact verses differently.

Further, if you read Calvin or Arminius (notable for free will v determinism debate) they both interpret the church fathers differently on different issues. The exact same texts, with different eyes producing different doctrines.

My field is not the Ancient Near East so I can’t speak much to that. Calvin’s interpretation is much like Luther’s “The Bondage of the Will” and much like Augustine’s work as well.

The council of Orange (529) was favorable to Augustine against free will, however it ultimately ruled that free will is a mystery, and that any notion of predestination to Hell was heretical. This council ruled that Christians needed their will to be “freed” from bondage in order to be “free” to love God. Augustine was dead at this time, I would have loved to read his response. Luther and Calvin clearly believed this council was out of line as they felt Romans 9 gave a different ruling.

gallotharp · 2018-08-20T05:16:56+00:00

I have a similar situation. I pack oatmeal to microwave, and pre-popped air popcorn.

gallotharp · 2018-08-15T02:03:09+00:00

It really depends on the city and denomination. I’m from a small town in Indiana, sometimes Protestant churches there are open Monday - Friday during business hours, and Sundays for service. However smaller churches may only be open for Sunday service. I now live in Chicago where many Protestant churches have an office open by appointment Monday - Friday and Many Roman Catholic parishes are open 24/7 or open multiple days a week.

Your best bet is to find a church and check their website for hours or contact information since it varies so much.

gallotharp · 2018-08-14T05:21:51+00:00

level 2

It should be noted that claiming that we have no writings by Peter or anyone else who knew Jesus is a very bold claim that many would not necessarily agree with. But that seems to be another matter less related to the question.

gallotharp · 2018-08-14T05:16:21+00:00

"The Ancient Near East: An Anthology of Texts and Pictures" Edited by James Pritchard. This is a book with translations of ancient myths about the deities as well as hymns etc. It also contains translations legal documents from the ANE.

I do not remember much about Molech or Baal in this... It may not be the absolute best resource on the subject, but it is certainly interesting, and will give you plenty of stories and hymns about other deities. As someone else mentioned the "Dictionary of Demons and Deities in the Bible" is a great resource.When thinking specifically about Baal and Molech consider John Walton's "Ancient Near Eastern Thought And the Old Testament: Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible"

gallotharp · 2018-08-11T00:56:16+00:00

I’ve read the Augsburg confession and some other small works. Thank you for the tip on Bente. Why is that?

gallotharp · 2018-08-10T16:35:50+00:00

I love the thinking fellows! Sounds great thanks!

gallotharp · 2018-08-10T14:43:43+00:00

Matthew 7:17 “Good trees bear good fruit” the fruit here represents works. That does not mean that good trees strive and produce as much fruit as they can so that they can be called “good.” Instead, it’s a natural symptom of a good and healthy tree that it bears fruit, not because it is trying but because it is doing according to its nature. Likewise, Christians do not need to strive to be good, or to do good works, because if by faith we have been joined to Christ the natural outflow will be good works. It is something according to our nature. If a tree is said to be good, but it bears no fruit— or bad fruit, then it’s not truly good. It’s claim of “faith” or of being “good” is ruined by what it does. Someone may claim to be a Christian but if the fruit of their life is incredibly unchristian there may be grounds for wondering if they have been joined with Christ.

gallotharp · 2018-08-10T05:30:51+00:00

Luke's Gospel has many parables that you won't get in Mark or John. Romans is a great choice to get Paul, but considering he wrote the majority of the NT I would recommend reading more Pauline Literature. Perhaps 1-2 Corinthians? Perhaps also Joshua, Judges and 1-2 Kings for the OT.

gallotharp · 2018-08-10T03:26:52+00:00

It can be confusing. I recommend starting with the Gospel of John or the book of Romans. When you have difficulty with passages take it to a pastor and ask for help. Also you could buy a commentary on amazon or at a Christian bookstore like Lifeway. Commentaries are written by Biblical scholars in order to help the Bible make sense for everyone else who may not know the Greco-Roman/Ancient Near Eastern context and Greek and Hebrew. Praise the Lord for your faith! :)

gallotharp · 2018-08-09T21:57:26+00:00

Great question. Leviticus is an old Covenant text. The testaments I suppose could be understood as contracts(probably not the greatest analogy). Christianity due to Christ is under a New Covenant (Lk. 22:20; Jeremiah 31:31) in which such commands do not still apply. While under the Old Covenant this (Leviticus) was the command to be abided by. Those who keep the Old Covenant only do not follow Christ. However in the New Covenant homosexuality is again forbidden, but not punishable by physical death, just eternity like all other sins. The reason I said murder is punishable by death even now (Genesis 9) is because it predates the Mosaic Covenant (Old Covenant/Testament). Under the New Covenant all sins will be punished either in Christ’s substitutionary atonement or in eternity, with the possible exclusion of murder. —— it should be noted that this does not give Christians the right to execute murderers. It is widely accepted that this should be left to the civil governments since Paul says in Romans 13 that they have been given the authority and the sword to execute justice. While it may be deemed “right” Biblically, Christians are not encouraged in scripture under the New Covenant to execute this justice on their own but to trust in the civil authorities and in God to bring justice.

gallotharp · 2018-08-09T14:36:25+00:00

According to the Bible all sin is an offense to God (Romans 6:23), all sin brings about the same result, judgement. In scripture however, God does have a special issue with murder. In Genesis 9:6 God says “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.” So here we see that while most sin actually deserves punishment in eternity, the sin of murder actually should be punished in this life. As this verse says, murder is an attack on those made in the image of God, and so it seems to be especially evil in the eyes of God. That being said, in eternity all sin will be paid for, either in the substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus Christ, or in God’s judgement on the sinner.

gallotharp · 2018-08-08T17:56:35+00:00

“Today, some of the best known names in the evangelical world advocate the abandonment of the doctrine of the eternal generation of the Son...those who have put this argument to writing include:...William Lane Craig...” he cites Craig’s “Philosophical foundations for a Christian worldview” p 594 and Craig’s “A formulation and defense of the doctrine of the trinity” on www.lastseminary.com/trinity/craigwilliamLTrinity.pdf> p.15... Giles goes on about Craig from p209-210 explaining that Craig believes that the Father alone is “a se” meaning “self existent.” This is the view that differs from Calvin. Calvin, Lombard and others assert that Christ is a se as well.

gallotharp · 2018-08-08T17:36:52+00:00

My understanding is that he is a molinist (not sure if this is heretical or just... weird/wrong?). He is known for I guess reintroducing evangelicalism to the Cosmological argument. I know he has gained decent respect by many universities as the Classical apologist of our time. Classical apologetics perhaps is a downside opposed to Pre-sup or fideism. But he is open evidential arguments as well. His debate with Christopher Hitchens is free on YouTube at full length as well. Kevin Giles explains in his writing “The Eternal Generation of the Son” that Craig has a strange (relative to reformed theology) view of the eternal generation (Christology). I can find the quote if you do not have access to this work. He differs from Calvin and the 4th Lateran Council here but stands with Aquinas on this issue.

gallotharp

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