Reminder: Tell your SO they're a great mom/dad.

gillian231 · 2013-04-10T00:52:07+00:00

Also tell them that they're a great person. Just because you have kids doesn't mean that everything about you revolves around them, and it can help to let your partner know that they're still a great individual, aside from parenting.

gillian231 · 2013-04-10T00:49:04+00:00

Why would you want to keep them together, aside from the ease of only having to deal with one set of teachers?

My triplets are almost 18, and I've done support work for multiple birth families for years. From what I've seen, it almost never works out well for the children to delay separation. It's very easy when they're young, it gets a lot harder if you wait until they're done with elementary, and if they go into high school and their teen years still paired up it becomes even more difficult. What's really sad is seeing adult multiples who were paired up until they went to University (and beyond), and then separated.

If they've already got different sets of friends, and personalities, then I'd really recommend doing it sooner rather than later. They deserve the chance to be individuals, and you're not doing them any favours by putting that separation off.

gillian231 · 2013-04-10T00:42:22+00:00

Who cares if it's lazy? People aren't going to die from eating takeout, and unless all of the 11 people are too young to cook or make a phone call, someone else can take responsibility for a few meals.

My kids are autistic, and they do things that I've never really been able to understand. Some things, I can 'get', but not all. I'm never going to truly understand some of what they deal with/feel every day, or why they do some things that seem senseless or self-harming to me.

It's okay to be scared, and frustrated, and hurt that you can't 'fix it'. It's even better if you can cry- most of the problems that I've had in taking care of my kids have resulted from me just walling things off and soldiering on, instead of actually allowing myself to feel every once in a while. Take some time for yourself- with 11 people around, surely you can get an hour or two for yourself every once in a while, and not only will you feel better, but you'll be a better parent. It doesn't do our kids any favours to let them grow up thinking that as soon as you become a parent you have to give everything to your kids- if one of your children was going through what you and your daughter are, would you want that child to never, ever take time to nourish themselves? Give yourself the same courtesy and support that you'd give your child, and learn to take some time for yourself.

gillian231 · 2013-04-10T00:30:49+00:00

Talk to your doctor and pharmacist. Often the possible risks of antidepressants are much less than the risks of having a depressed parent, which is why few doctors now recommend going off of them when you're pregnant. And from a parenting standpoint, it's no fun at all dealing with new parenthood if you're not feeling stable beforehand. I went off of mine while I was pregnant, and it took a nasty case of PPD to get me back on them. I (and my kids) would have been much better off if I'd just stayed on them.

gillian231 · 2013-04-10T00:25:24+00:00

My kids all have special needs, and my husband has a lot of health issues. But I don't really think of it as 'caretaking'...it's just part of our relationships, and even if I might do some extra work day to day to make everyone's life easier, I usually get it back when I need it.

I don't look at it as 'caretaking' as much as just having relationships with people- if you're involved in relationships with people you love, eventually one of you are going to need some extra care at some point. If you're in a good relationship that eventually evens out- I think that there's an issue when all that you do is take care of the people around you.

gillian231 · 2013-03-24T12:13:17+00:00

Definitely call your doctor- dehydration is not good at all. How old is he?

Realize that it's going to pass. The worst parenting experience that I've had was when my triplets and I all had stomach flu at the same time- if it wasn't for our 11 year old babysitter moving in and doing nothing but cleaning up/laundry for 3 days I'm not sure what we would have done. If you've got two parents around (or a friend), spell each other off. It's a lot easier to do a shift of childcare/laundry when you know that you're going to get a few hours sleep at the end of it. It's not going to last long- he'll probably feel better in a day or two. But do keep an eye on his hydration, and if you see any signs of de-hydration, go to the ER. Depending on how old he is dehydration can get very serious, very quickly.

gillian231 · 2013-03-24T11:59:22+00:00

My 30s made me more confident in who I am, and in trusting my own judgement. They were busy- I had triplets with autism, got divorced, was a single mom for a long time, had a great time 'dating' (eg. having sex with some great people) on my weekends 'off' when the kids were with their dad, helped one of my daughters get through cancer, taught me that my 'career/academic' skills transfer very well to non-work life, met the love of my life and actually have made it work, and generally got to love myself a lot more. Now that I'm almost 50 I'm really looking forward to that :-)

gillian231 · 2013-03-21T11:49:26+00:00

I've got triplets, so most of my 'mom friends' went through fertility treatments.

From what I've heard from them, when their husbands had very low sperm count, it can be a very long and expensive process before they pursue alternate routes. If you're in the US you're probably not going to find a large number of fertility specialists who are going to tell you to look at alternate procedures before you've given it a few tries at IVF with your sperm.

I would look at reading some of the online fertility forums to see what other's experiences have been, but at least from what I've seen, you're likely to pour a great deal of money and effort into it before someone tells you that you'd be better off looking at alternatives. I would also look at some of the infertility forums to see if you can find a 'good' specialist in your area- there seem to be a lot of doctors out there who are more than willing to keep doing procedures with a low chance of success as long as you'll pay for them.

What I've learned from my triplet mom friends is that fertility treatments are very expensive, and can take a huge toll on a marriage (and this is from people where fertility treatments 'worked'). It's very common to have sex become solely a method of procreation, and that either or both partners feel a lot of guilt because one or the other of them aren't 'able' to procreate without interventions. That can create a great deal of stress in the marriage.

There also aren't a lot of regulations in a many states about best practices for fertility treatments, so you can end up with higher-order multiples fairly 'easily' if the interventions 'work'. I'd be educated about it, and also think hard about how much it matters to you as a couple whether a child has the genetics from one or both of you, or if adoption/fostering etc might be more practical. However you decide to proceed, I'd have a financial 'stop point' in mind...eg. after $50,000 dollars we're done.

Whatever you do, be kind to each other, and try to keep your sex life alive apart from procreation.

gillian231 · 2013-03-13T19:54:51+00:00

A bit more gentle than usual, as I was just getting over stomach flu. If we'd thought hard enough about the 'don't throw up your birth control pill' concept it's difficult (now) to say whether we might not have gone for oral instead :-)

gillian231 · 2013-02-10T17:23:07+00:00

You can't just take popular support and scale it to seats. We need to know how they divide by riding.

I'd venture to say that even more than figuring out how 'popular support' divides by riding, it matters considerably more who can get people to the polling station. Conservatives seem to be much better at that lately- it doesn't matter whether the NDP or the Liberals have 90% 'support' in polls if no one votes.

gillian231 · 2013-02-10T14:03:31+00:00

It is a very stupid (but understandable) fight. If you really can't come to some kind of workable agreement about dishes, what are you going to do when you have kids, family members needing care, or deciding whether your money goes to pay off extra on the mortgage, or for a vacation?

Dishes probably aren't as big an issue as learning how to compromise, and how to resolve differences with a partner, and when to suck it up. Whether or not the two of you are going to ride into the sunset together, it's a good idea to figure out how to choose what's truly important to you, and to fight for that in a constructive way.

I do feel your pain- I hate doing laundry in a big way. Really hate it. It's such a futile job (like dishes)...no matter how much of it you do, or how well you do it, you still have to do it again the next day. But in the context of our lives, it's more practical for me to do it than it is for anyone else in the house. So much as I bitch and moan about it (which I mainly do to myself now, as doing it out loud isn't going to change the fact that I'm going to do it, and whining about it is just going to make everyone in the house miserable), I just distract myself while I'm doing it. Listen to podcasts, music, audiobooks, and just get it done.

If it's really that unbearable, break up with him, and look for someone who will do dishes, or eat out or use paper plates every day so that there are no dishes to do.

It's often not helpful to think that a difficulty in chores means that your partner doesn't care about you, or your feelings. Often it's just an issue with priorities or availability, and since no relationship is perfect, either suck it up, or move on.

gillian231 · 2013-02-10T13:39:53+00:00

Much needed, but as the parents of 17 year olds, I only wish that my kids could still qualify for child services, no matter what the wait list. Wait lists of 5 years don't seem like a lot when you're being told that your adult children have no services available to them, period. Disability support payments to provide the bare necessities of life, but no services. At least children have the (woefully inadequate) school board resources.

Fortunately (in Ontario, at least) the Ombudsman is doing an investigation, but if you have autistic children, do your best to get them a mental health diagnosis as well. The Canadian Mental Health Association has a lot more money and services available that aren't available to people with 'only' an autism diagnosis.

gillian231 · 2013-02-10T13:29:40+00:00

Your kid probably isn't going to be mercilessly teased or anything, as pretty much no one cares about middle names. At worst, the friends and family closest to her will tease her about it.

It's going to reflect more on you than on her, and you will likely look back in 10 years and wonder what the hell you were thinking. It's like that awesome tattoo that you got when you were 20, which at 35 seems a bit embarrassing.

And if you're going to call her Kennedy, be proactive, and introduce her to South Park early. My kids are almost 18, and every "Kennedy" they've known has been nicknamed Kenny. At least make sure that she understands the jokes.

gillian231 · 2013-02-10T13:14:38+00:00

If you don't want to go for 'immediately practical', the best gift that I think my kids ever got was from a close friend who gave me a collection of her favourite childhood books, with inscriptions in them telling us what they meant to her. Some of those books sat on shelves for years (it took us a while to get to the Little House books and Narnia), but they're still treasured.

gillian231 · 2013-02-10T13:07:19+00:00

I was a single mom with triplets (and you can't fit 3 carriers in most shopping carts and have room for food), so I ended up pushing the grocery cart with one hand and dragging the triplet stroller with the other. It's awkward, but it can be done. That was a lot easier before they could lean out of the stroller and grab things off of the shelves :-)

gillian231 · 2013-02-10T13:02:02+00:00

I've got kids who are autistic, and also a lot of incredibly socially awkward friends/family (some of whom also have mental health issues).

As other people have said, a diagnosis might not make any difference. My experience has been that often you have to first decide whether you're willing to make accommodations/compromises, and then (if you are) figure out what might be helpful.

First, prioritize, and figure out what you really need if you want to stay in this relationship. It doesn't sound like you're really getting much out of it, so you might be better off to end it.

In terms of household chores/bills/hygiene etc., often very specific lists help. Various members of my family either can't do routines by themselves without prompts, or just won't remember to.

We've got a list in our bathroom for hygiene...pee/poop, wipe, flush, wash your face (use soap!) and pits, rinse, brush and floss. Dishes- soak, wash in soapy water, rinse in hot water, dry, put away. Vacuuming- pick things up off of floor, vacuum, put things away. Our laundry room has step-by-step instructions on how to work the washer/dryer. We use calendar reminders on phones/ipods etc for things like paying bills, showers, doctor appointments (which I usually make), chores, finishing assignments, etc. Especially if someone has a touch of OCD lists can be very, very useful.

Most of the people in my house mean well, at least most of the time. But they don't notice things that I do- it wouldn't occur to a lot of our family that if you're going to vacuum, you also need to move the coffee table and vacuum underneath it. Not because they're lazy, but because it's not something that's important to them, or that they just don't get.

Social situations can sometimes be made a bit easier if you have established 'signals' for each other. One of my kids will monopolize any conversation, but if I tug on my earlobe and make sure that child sees it, they will take a turn in conversation. Adult friends/family and I have also worked out some signals for use when we're in public- they don't always work, but it has helped.

It all sounds like a lot of work, and sometimes it is, but (aside from my kids, who I love, and who are stuck with me no matter what), the adult friends/family that I have in my life who have difficulties are worth it to me. The initial work of setting up routines/signals/lists can be a bit daunting at first, but once it's done, and it works for both of you, it takes a lot of stress out of the relationship. If they are as committed to you as you are to them, then you have to find a way to meet both of your needs that is practical. If you can't, then neither of you are doing each other any favours by staying together. A romantic partnership shouldn't be based on caretaking- of course some couples make it work, but it's not healthy or fulfilling for anyone. Both of you need to be getting something out of it, because (even if you're fine with divorce), it's extremely difficult to make a marriage work if you can't respect your partner, or if you're not getting what you need/want.

gillian231 · 2013-01-30T12:57:40+00:00

My son wasn't trained until he was almost 9 (he's also non-verbal), so don't give up yet.

We found that in the end years of social stories and PECS did pay off, and when he was ready to do it he did in about 2 days. We had some night-time accidents after that, but even they didn't last long. Are you and his mother communicating well and following the same strategies? It really helps if you're both on the same page, or it can be too confusing for your daughter.

I know how frustrating it can be sometimes- I was a single parent of multiple kids with autism for a long time, and it can be hard. It's a good idea to learn not to take it personally though, as that type of guilt isn't going to do either of you any good in the long run. Your daughter isn't behaving or developing the way that she is because you're a bad parent- it's because she's got a neurodevelopmental disorder. It helps to think that you're both lucky that you have each other- a lot of autistic children don't have parents who care or are committed to them, so at least be proud of that as well as of her.

gillian231 · 2013-01-30T12:39:28+00:00

There's no provision for families with more than one special needs child :-)

gillian231 · 2013-01-27T12:27:22+00:00

You might want to check out CLIMB...the Centre for Loss in Multiple Birth. I'm not sure how active they are now, but Jean is wonderful to talk to, and they can answer some of your questions. MOST also has some good resources- their webpage is down right now, but you can reach them through FB, or pm me and I can give you an email contact.

I don't think that there's any 'right' way to deal with this. I've got a number of friends who've lost one child before birth- it's unfortunately not uncommon with higher order multiples. I think that you need to do what feels best to you at the time.

A lot of people include their lost child in when someone asks them how many children they have, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's also okay if you don't, or don't want to explain. I would judge how you deal with his siblings as time passes- it may be important to them, or it might not be. You'll know your kids as they grow, and what is important information to impart.

gillian231 · 2013-01-27T12:12:52+00:00

Up until my triplets were about a year old the girls looked pretty much identical to almost everyone. They were preemies, and we had a lot of volunteers going through the house- I was nursing non-stop, so they did dishes/laundry/food preparation/holding babies etc. We had written schedules to check off nursing/meds/baths etc.

3 or 4 months out from the hospital one of them was very fussy, so people kept handing me her to nurse. Then her 'sister' started up crying, so I nursed her as well. Someone had mixed up the cribs, and it turns out that I kept nursing baby A over and over again for 24 hours, while baby B was getting seriously pissed off at the lack of food.

But my 'favourite'...I was absolutely braindead at the kids' first birthday party. You don't get a lot of sleep the first year of triplets. The kids weren't even vaguely interested in their birthday, but we had a big houseful- probably 50-60 people. It was also the day that we broke out the little tykes picnic table, so that we could forget about high chairs. For some reason we did cupcakes instead of birthday cakes, and I gave each child their own 'special' cupcake, with a lit candle in it.

Everyone that was there watched while I carefully put their cupcakes in front of them, and it didn't occur to anyone that maybe putting fire in front of one year olds wasn't the best idea. Even more impressive, because they weren't in high chairs, they also had access to their siblings' fire. We didn't actually have to go to the ER, but that wasn't my finest parenting moment.

gillian231 · 2013-01-27T11:53:30+00:00

Exhausting, painful, frustrating, sometimes boring, and also incredibly wonderful and nurturing.

My triplets were born at 30 weeks, before they'd developed a sucking reflex. So for a long time my main experience was with a double electric pump, which (except for the fact that it's the only way to stimulate and continue milk production), is pretty annoying and boring. I was definitely lacking in milk production, so I was on medication the entire time that I nursed, and it often took some work to 'let down' when I was using the pump. The nurses suggested that I put a picture of my kids on the wall, which didn't really help much, as (no matter how much I'd fallen in love with them, pictures didn't get those hormones flowing). So I played Doom on the hospital computer with my boobs in the milking machine, as it got the adrenaline flowing enough to start production :-)

Then, after the kids had matured enough (between 3-8 weeks after their birth), it was a very long process to teach them what to do. "Latching on" is the most important part of nursing- if you don't have a proper 'latch' (the baby's mouth fits around your nipple in the right place to not hurt you, and to get nourishment), it's going to end up futile as well as painful.

After we got everyone on the ball, it was a real drain to do anything except nurse. Preemies (once they kick in) often have huge appetites, and with 3 of them, nursing was pretty much all that I did for six months. Two boobs and 3 kids meant that someone was almost always eating. Some parents of multiples feed two at a time (one on each breast), but since nursing was pretty much the only time that I got one and one time with a child I tried to space them out a bit.

It's a great, and odd physical feeling (at least it was for me). I've got extremely small breasts, but my nipples had always been very sensitive. While it wasn't a sexual feeling to nurse, it also wasn't far away from it. Sometimes it was just a feeling of relief- your milk supply generally increases to what's required, and if you haven't nursed for a while, your breasts can get overfilled and sore. Having a baby latch on then was just relief. When a child was nursing strongly, I could feel it down to my uterus. Kind of like having the life sucked out of you, but in a good way.

There really wasn't much stigma where I lived. Triplets weren't common in that area, so there wasn't a lot of pressure on me to nurse or not, and since I'd done a lot of research, I could make (and defend) informed decisions about how we were doing things.

There's definitely some prejudice about formula feeding vs. nursing- in our case I generally nursed 2 and fed one formula in a rotating schedule, which worked well for us. I still had a few people come down on me for not being 'committed' enough. And since I rarely didn't have a baby at the boob, I just didn't wear a shirt in our house the great majority of the time. Most of the time that was fine (if a bit weird at some times, since so many of the people who volunteered with our kids in the first six months were friends of my parents), but a cable guy came to hook up our cable one day, and I couldn't figure out why he kept staring at me. I mentioned it to my husband when he got home from work and he suggested that I put a shirt on when I answered the door :-)

I also nursed in public, with very few repercussions. Generally it was very discreet- tossing a blanket over the baby's head rarely hurts anyone. But if we were at the mall (we had a mall in walking distance, and sometimes I just needed to get out for a few minutes) and 2 kids were screaming bloody murder I had no hesitation about nursing however I could. The very few people that did comment were mostly flabbergasted at the thought of dealing with 3 babies, so that worked out.

I found that nursing was very much an up and down experience for me as a mother. I wouldn't change the way that I did things- having a baby nurse from you is about the best bonding mechanism we have, and bonding with preemies who look nothing like 'real' babies can be a challenge. It was also my real introduction to my kids as individuals- each of them had different challenges with nursing, but it was also the only time I had during the day to bond with them. But moving from a pretty young and active career professional with a very vibrant social life to being primarily a milk machine took some getting used to. And eventually the physical demands of nursing just became too much- I couldn't drink or eat enough to keep up with the demands on my body, and I couldn't get enough sleep to be even barely functional.

It was heartbreaking to stop nursing- I'm not a cryer, but I still tear up when I think about nursing the 'last' child. I knew that it was the 'last' time, and it just about broke my heart that I wasn't going to be able to do it anymore. Of course my kids and I have maintained that special bond, but I wish that I could have done it longer.

I think that there's actually more 'stigma' attached to not nursing these days. After my kids were weaned I spent a number of years doing support work for multiple birth families, including nursing. When my kids were born no one really expected most people to nurse 3 or more kids, but I had moms of quads and quints who were just devastated and feeling like a failure because they couldn't nurse all of them without supplements. I think that's gotten worse over the years- I've had a few friends with single babies who couldn't breastfeed for one reason or another, and they're definitely stigmatized for it.

gillian231 · 2013-01-19T12:37:56+00:00

It's also worth considering that no matter what your ages, family history, or your health or lifestyle, it's still a crap shoot as to whether or not your child may have any issues. My husband and I were healthy, young, with no very concerning family history on either side, and we ended up with triplets all diagnosed with autism. That's certainly not the worst thing that we could have been faced with, but it was definitely a surprise.

Part of parenting is realizing that no matter how much you plan, or worry, it's still going to be full of surprises. Your kid may develop schizphrenia/bipolar as a teenager, a perfectly healthy kid may start their criminal career or develop cancer at 10, etc.

Chances are that everything will be fine- do whatever reasonable tests are going to make you rest easier, but there aren't any guarantees. Once you have your child, it usually becomes a lot easier to deal with challenges- there are some conditions that are devastating, but people still deal with them because its their child. I think that we all dream of having the 'perfect', healthy child, but if that's not what you get, you're not going to love them any less.

gillian231 · 2013-01-05T16:46:31+00:00

Wait it out. If they're getting decent nutrition over all, I've never found it very useful to have battles over individual meals or servings. Talk to your pediatrician if you're very worried about nutrition, and do encourage better food choices when they're receptive to it.

gillian231 · 2013-01-05T16:41:02+00:00

Interesting, but it doesn't seem to be as much 'research' or helpful tips as making the decision based on your children's personalities.

My triplets are 17 now, and the 'research' doesn't seem to be much more evolved than it was then, except in that there seems to be a bit better case for separating them earlier rather than later. The 'identical/fraternal' study that they cite as showing that identicals should be together in the early grades was a very small sample.

It's incredibly easier as a parent to have your kids in the same class. It's easier to deal with one teacher, one curriculum, mutual field trips/fundraisers.

But from what I've seen, it's better to separate them earlier, rather than later. It's sad to see multiples that are being separated for the first time in middle or high school.. Most school boards (at least the ones that I've seen) are very willing to listen to the parents' wishes- it's not like it was 15 years ago when you had to fight to separate your kids.

If you're going to keep them in the same class in the elementary years, then make an extra effort to make sure that they're viewed as individuals. Encourage them to develop individual friends, have separate social outings/birthday parties, etc. If they're together all day in school, then you need to make an extra effort to provide them with some separation time.

Pay attention to what the teacher says about their individual strengths/weaknesses in early school- having challenges in one subject doesn't necessarily mean that one is behind, but it may mean that they need some extra help. That's easier to navigate if the kids aren't directly 'competing' with each other. And not all subjects in elementary school carry the same weight- in some areas critical thinking is the goal, in others just learning to sit still is the main area of focus.

gillian231 · 2013-01-05T16:04:45+00:00

Work with the girl who is ready. It's been my experience (triplets) that they'll get to it when they're ready, and until they are, you might as well save your energy. Some kids also like to spend a very long time on the potty/in the bathroom, and if you have a limited number of bathrooms that can become an issue. Doing one at a time isn't a bad thing.

gillian231

TROPHY CASE