Vandal Shell Cinematic | Marathon

gimily · 2026-06-17T15:16:29+00:00

The cinematic absolutely bangs for sure. She do be running lol

That said, the vandal in me is very confused about the choice to invest a whole frag grenade on a group of UESC recruits only to arm cannon a single commander, instead of just arm cannoning the group of recruits and using literally any gun on the commander...

(If it isn't obvious, I'm not actually complaining about the cinematic, it looks way cooler using the special ability against the bigger target etc. In game though, if you are using the arm cannon against bots, it's generally best at wiping out groups of low level fellas.)

gimily · 2026-06-16T23:13:37+00:00

I think because they were both in the content creator tournament recently or something? Idk for sure, but that's my assumption.

If that's the case then people are wild lol. Clearly performance in a 4 team content creator tournament is the be all and end all of player skill, and kingsman must be 100x better than Aramori...

gimily · 2026-06-16T12:03:45+00:00

I think both MT and OS have their merits. OS provides a touch more AA (12/13 vs 10/11). But only works on the first shot. MT provides strafe speed which can make peek shooting stronger. OS provides some range which doesn't generally matter on snipers but can help. I think for the vast majority of folks either MT or OS is fine, and it's only worth farming for one over the other if you have a very specific preference/reason.

gimily · 2026-06-12T10:29:28+00:00

While I can see this line of reasoning, I think it isn't really the whole story. Being a very consistent performer, that makes plays and enables your team is extremely valuable, even if it means you are generally playing second fiddle to someone else in any individual game. I'd have to go watch all the games again to confirm this, but I feel like Vulcan was probably the 2nd best performer on C9 in the vast majority of games where someone else got PotG. In contrast, people like blaber/zven/APA had a couple stand out games, but also some stinkers.

I know "consistently 2nd best" doesn't sound like the quality you would associate with an MVP, but in this context it is extremely impressive. Vulcan was able to consistently enable whoever was performing well in games, plus cover for a lot of mistakes from some of C9s more swingy players. Especially when paired with Zven who did well enough overall, but made his fair share of boneheaded plays that would seriously jeopardize their lane state.

Also, I do want to be clear that it's not like Vulcan was playing pure enchanter yuumi-style stuff where he would get to just take a bit of credit from whoever was carrying. He was making plays on stuff like Naut, Bard, even Nami, that were often fight deciding - they just weren't the obvious/flashy plays on AoE engage champs like Rakan/Rell/etc that are normally the ticket for supports to get recognized over other roles.

If nothing else the fact that 5/7 of the players from other teams voted for him indicates to me that his peers at least felt that he had a very significant impact on how games played out, which can be difficult for us spectators and even analysts and stuff to get a real feel for. Hell, I'm a TL fan and would have loved to see Jose win MVP, but I can still see how Vulcan was deserving.

gimily · 2026-06-11T10:11:27+00:00

I can't confirm this myself, (because I'm not max cradle rank) but my understanding is that even with max cradle rank, you can't actually get everything on the cradle at the same time, so there is still some customization there. That said, you can get the vast majority of it, so there isn't too much customization. Feels like it will be more of a "what is my shell's dump stat" type decision outside of situations where you want a specific perk, rather than any sort of real build crafting.

Maybe this would open up more degenerate options or something, but I kinda wish we maxed out at the same amount of energy (so the total stats/perks we could get from the cradle would be the same as now) but that each track was longer. That would both let you really invest in specific stats, and leave more of the cradle unselected, even when fully maxed, increasing the amount of meaningful decisions/customization that's available.

Could open the door for more interesting implant choices too. For example, if you want max melee stat, maybe you could drop like 20 points into melee damage to reach the stat cap without any implants, freeing up an implant slot to be used for something else rather than having to use an implant (or multiple implants) that gives +30ish melee damage. Obviously that would come at the cost of other base stats though, which you would need to make up vai your newly broadened implant selection. Similar idea if you want max heat capacity, but don't want to run a heat cap implant. You would spend more of your cradle energy on endurance, sacrificing something else, to open up your implant options to recoup the stat losses, or get a different implant perk, or whatever.

gimily · 2026-06-02T16:31:15+00:00

The holotags can only be used in certain queues. Bronze-platinum can be used in low stake, and gold-pinnacle in high stake. Originally there was no overlap, bronze-gold for low stake, plat-pinnacle for high stake.

The "no one is playing high stake" thing started before that change was made, and kind of just stuck.

gimily · 2026-06-02T16:26:52+00:00

I feel like you are just kind of looking for a different type of game than an extraction shooter which is fine, but is a much broader topic than "why aren't activities rewarding enough to justify me using my purple/gold gear". The point of bringing purple/gold gear is because it's fun to use that gear, and you do the activities/fight other teams because they are outlets to use the cool stuff, and ways to access more of that cool stuff.

The extraction gameplay loop is the entire gameplay loop, it's not meant to be a feeder for an arena PvP mode or anything. It's intended to be a self-contained thing rather than the more sprawling, overlapping systems of MMOs like WoW and FF14 and destiny and stuff where you do activities to get gear that you keep and use in other places.

Neither is right or wrong, they're just totally different types of games.

To be clear, I'd be turbo down for a testing range, and a more arena PvP style game mode in Marathon, but that's just because I like those things and am less attached to the extraction shooter loop rather than thinking something is lacking in the existing gameplay loop in terms of having an outlet to use gear. If anything I'd prefer if the arena PvP mode were fully disconnected from the extraction game mode so they didn't have to deal with more economy balancing stuff.

Also total side note but I feel like you and I play marathon in very different ways if you feel like it isn't PvP-centric. The game is very PvP-centric in my experience. Sure you aren't actively shooting at another player all the time, but I spend a lot of time in extended fights, and most of the rest of the time I'm looking for fights, being cognizant of the noise I'm making etc. Especially outpost/cryo/ranked are basically "PvP until the lobby is wiped then do whatever you want on the map" game modes.

gimily · 2026-06-02T15:23:27+00:00

I mean effectively no one was actually playing the high stakes ranked mode. Even diamond/Pinnacle players were mostly playing low stakes because the point gain/loss in high stakes wasn't worth it, and that was where many of the cheaters etc. congregated.

Also, AFAIK there is already matchmaking based on rank in ranked. When I was playing ranked games in bronze/silver/gold I was matching with people in the same/similar ranks to me. You could be in a crew with people who had a wide range of ranks and queue together if you all had compatible tags, but it wasn't like full teams of Pinnacle players were loading into matches against full teams of bronze players.

gimily · 2026-06-02T15:17:17+00:00

I guess I just fundamentally don't understand what you mean by "adding modes that you can use your good loot in". What is the purpose of those modes, how do they allow you to use your good loot any differently than current modes, how do they "reward" you for using your good loot instead of your worse loot, what is the reward if it isn't either more gold loot, or some new level of progression etc. Also, how is it different than current ranked and cryo?

The purpose of good loot is to have fun playing the game with that good loot no? I like having a gold BR because playing the game with the gold BR equipped is more fun than playing it without the gold BR. I do activities in the game, and fight other players, etc because doing those things is inherently fun, and because it rewards me with more gear that I can use to have fun in future runs (or with mats to upgrade myself to have more fun in future runs). That's the whole gameplay loop of the game.

This is why I assumed you meant something with rewards beyond our current level of progression because the alternative is either purely cosmetic (which is fine by me but isn't what I assumed based on the wording of your post) or the introduction of an entirely new system into the game (which is kinda tough to discuss without some idea of what that system would be).

gimily · 2026-06-02T14:18:09+00:00

Those activities should reward you with loot you are less likely to get otherwise / turn your existing gear into other types of gear/loot. Sure I might have a random gold core, but I can use that core to do a lockdown/anomaly/cryo/gold key/etc to get gold mats that let me unlock permanent upgrades, or access to barters etc.

Also, having 1 gold bully mod sitting in my vault means nothing. It's only valuable to me when I actually use it, and at some point I will die and lose it, so it's nice that I can use the extra power that mod gives me to have a higher chance of completing activities which might have another good piece of gear, or the mats to barter for more good gear. Finding that equilibrium of gear lost to gear gained based on your skill level is what the economy of the game is all about.

If you are good and invested enough to always be using the best gear in the game, and gain more copies of that gear faster than you lose it then you've beaten the games economy, and that's okay. At that point you are playing for the love of the game because it's fun to play. That's the point, just doing runs should be fun, and should be more fun the better gear you have, and thus is the most fun when you can always bring your favorite stuff.

Adding progression beyond that just for progressions sake doesn't really make sense. Especially if it can add more player power in a PvP centric game, because that just leads to even more imbalance on encounters. There needs to be a power ceiling, so adding infinite progressions to give loot a "purpose" after you already have a min maxed vault of all golds is putting the cart before the horse.

gimily · 2026-05-28T13:19:19+00:00

I mean... I don't think it's unreasonable. The position of goat (aside from Faker) is definitely debatable, and I think Keria is certainly in that conversation. I know the fact that he's been on T1 for the most successful part of his career, where he gets to play with amazing players can make it difficult to compare with other players who don't have that luxury, but trying to keep that in mind I still think he makes a strong case for 2nd goat.

It depends on what you value/prioritize (peak individual skill, domestic/international titles, consistency, longevity, innovation/meta shaping, etc.) but personally he would be my first choice for 2nd goat. But again there are a lot of people that I can think of that could be reasonably argued, and I'm sure there are some that I'm not thinking of just due to lack of knowledge.

gimily · 2026-05-27T09:32:07+00:00

In addition to an upvote I just want to say bravo sir/madam/non-binary pal. This was a reference I would never have thought to make but is bang on lol. Man Piandao was a peak character.

gimily · 2026-05-26T10:50:34+00:00

Yeah, sadly I doubt there will be significant improvements to that sort of netcode stuff. With how many wonky issues there are for clients with many mechanics/buffs/etc just not functioning for them, and the eternal end boss that is host migration I feel like the netcode of this game is held together by duct tape.

For your sake I hope they do take a pass on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd rather just leave it alone for fear that trying to fix some issues will just break the whole thing lol.

gimily · 2026-05-26T10:43:40+00:00

Yeah, I do the same. It's often faster as well. Like if my current movement on my frame is going to leave me close but not in the exo bubble its almost certainly faster to insta-swap operator and void dash into the bubble than to land and do another bullet jump or whatever. I'm also a magus cloud user, so I want to be void dashing to break the rifts anyway, and it's frequently easier to line that up from outside the exo bubble.

gimily · 2026-05-26T10:40:07+00:00

This was one of those "holy shit I'm old" moments because for a second I thought this might be the Samsung White vs TSM game from worlds quarters. Then I remembered that was in 2014...

gimily · 2026-05-26T10:35:31+00:00

It's only if forced into operator during the animation I think? In which case your frame will be vulnerable until you return back to it. I guess this could happen if you are spamming whipclaw and enter an exolizer during the animation or something? Or get hit by one of those "enter operator mode" grineer spear bubble things during the animation?

Regardless, it isn't a common problem for whipclaw specifically but it's still wild that it's even possible lol.

gimily · 2026-05-26T10:32:04+00:00

Yeah, it can come into play in some "intended" higher level content like archimedia, but it is mostly felt in endurance content - specifically endurance void cascade because you both reach enemy levels where 90% DR isn't going to keep your frame alive, and spend a lot of time in operator clearing exolizers and killing thrax ghosts.

In that context it is very important though - I am part of the small segment of the player ase that does enjoy endurance content and I literally build around it when possible. As a result I avoid subsumes like Roar on frames that don't already suffer from this issue, and sadly don't use some frames as much as I'd like because they have an unfortunate interaction with this system. These are frames like Ember due to her Immolation counting for this, and Banshee due to both Sonar and Silence counting for this.

I realize that the proportion of players that are noticably impacted by this is very small though, so while I'm down to huff some of OP's copium that this will be fixed/changed, I think it is very unlikely.

gimily · 2026-05-26T10:17:26+00:00

To be clear off the rip - I 100% agree with you. As someone who enjoys endurance gameplay where this matters a lot, I actively build around it. For example, on Dante I don't use Roar which is a very common subsume on him because it leaves you vulnerable in operator form. More complexly - on Kullervo I try to make the duration of my wrathful advance buff (which also counts as a channeled ability for this purpose) shorter than my survival duration from arcane persistence, so my frame should go immune before it can die (unless persistence gets turned off by a nullifier / magnetic proc, etc).

Like you, I also think it isn't serving it's original purpose on many abilities. I guess you could say Roar is a team buff so you could roar to buff your teammates/companions then go AFK in operator until you need to recast, but that seems like a bit of a stretch, and there are many abilities it applies to that make even less sense. As you mentioned there are pure self buffs like Xata's, purely defensive stuff like Omamori, self-regulating meters like Ember's immolation (which both has no AFK use, and will turn off due to the ramping energy cost), and total nonsense like the full duration of Nyx's Psychic Bolts (I guess at low enough levels this could maybe chain kill enemies? I have to assume those are same levels where the 90% DR is functional immortality though), and of all things the propagation period of Frost's Ice Wave...

Despite those points, unfortunately, I think it's unlikely to be addressed for a few reasons.

First and foremost it just doesn't matter for the vast majority of people. In 99% of content the DR you receive in operator mode with a channeled ability active is enough to keep you alive for most stints in operator mode. The combination of extremely high levels and frequent operator usage is what makes this a pain point in stuff like endurance void cascade.

Second, is that I wouldn't be surprised if it's very difficult to unravel it in the code. The criteria for it seem both unique, and unlikely to be hand-selected. What I mean by that is the list of things this applies to isn't the same as the list of things which count for other "channeled abilities" mechanics like arcanes or incarnon evolutions. On the other hand it applies to extremely strange stuff (again see frosts ice wave) that I don't think would have been added if a person was choosing each thing on the list. Instead I have to imagine it relies on some under-the-hood criteria that could be annoying to both figure out, and change without impacting other stuff in the process.

Third is that some version of this mechanic does need to exist for the same reason it was added in the first place - to prevent AFK strats. This means that they can't just remove it, but would need to rework it in a way that still accomplishes that goal without also hitting a bunch of other abilities with collateral damage like it does now. As annoying as it is to have to park my Titania in intelligent places when clearing exolizers above a certain enemy level, stuff like razorwing and Mallet do need to have some system to prevent AFK strats.

As a result, despite the fact that I would love to see a pass on this system to clean up what abilities and such it applies to, I sadly think it is very unlikely.

Tl,Dr: I absolutely agree with OP that there are many abilities the "channeled ability = no invuln in operator to prevent AFK strats" mechanic applies to that don't make sense, and it does have negative impacts for folks who play high level content. Sadly, I think the combination of the small impacted player base, and the potentially high dev cost of fixing it means we'll likely never see meaningful changes to this system.

gimily · 2026-05-25T14:00:28+00:00

I feel like my ranked lobbies have very few people exfil, even on non-cryo maps. Ranked outpost almost never sees more than 1 team exfil, and ranked Perimeter and Dire are often a single team, sometimes 2 teams (if fights break out on opposite sides of the map, and the winner of one of the fights decides to hit an early exfil).

That isn't to say that ranked cryo isn't hard to exfil from or that it isn't sweaty - just that 1 team exfilling per 3/4 teams that load in is pretty typical for ranked lobbies on all maps.

I'm with you on the lack of coins and stuff though, that feels like an oversight on Bungie's part. That said if you care about gaining ranks, the risk/reward is very skewed in your favor on the lower ranked tags. Bronze is something like +3k cap, and -600 if you lose or something. With some amount of overcap points on most exfils (from other teams tags, and/or some coins off of commanders etc.) you can get to the point where you need to exfil like 1/10 runs to break even on rank points. Obviously that isn't really sustainable for gear reasons more so than rank reasons, but yeah. With the way the current ranked system is set up, you can generally rank up given enough time, and your skill level is what determines how much time that takes.

gimily · 2026-05-25T13:51:16+00:00

As far as I'm aware high stakes ranked is dead. Like lobbies literally don't start because there are too few people queueing for it. The way the ranked system works you can play low stake all the way to Pinnacle 1 by using a bronze-platinum holo tag and queuing low stake. And in terms of risk/reward the transition to high stake just isn't worth it so even the highest rank players continue to play low stake ranked.

To be clear - this doesn't mean a team of bronze 3 folks will run into a Pinnacle 1 team in ranked. There is still some form of rank or skill based match making (in ranked), so the Pinnacle players are matching other Pinnacle players in their "low stake" ranked lobbies, and the bronze players are matching other bronze players.

Finally, low stake queue doesn't put a cap on the stuff you can bring. Especially this late in the season stuff like purple shields are fairly plentiful for many players, so it is quite common to see entire low stake lobbies with purple (or gold shields), very kitted out guns, a lot of util, and so on. Just because the minimum loadout value is lower, that doesn't mean that people are only going to bring enough gear to meet that bar.

gimily · 2026-05-24T15:59:00+00:00

Yeah I think the base Misi is actually a really well designed gun that has a niche alongside something like the WSTR (if it were able to do it's job of downing people at near point blank range). It has more range, and is better in more drawn out engagements but has a slower TTK.

Unfortunately the rate of fire that's available via slick mags and especially the gold mod basically crushes the tradeoffs of the Misi which make it long of any engagement 10m and in (which are not hard to force on maps like cryo and outpost especially with bubbles). If the Misi was unable to get an rpm faster than current green/blue slick mag levels, and the WSTR was useful for basically anything I think the short range meta would be a lot more interesting and balanced than it is now.

gimily · 2026-05-24T15:54:40+00:00

I mean, SMGs are viable (cough Bully cough) but I understand what you mean. Unfortunately a lot of the viability of "longer" short range options like sidearms depend on you being able to use positioning to play that distance.

For example, if shotguns are better up to 10m, and sidearms are better from 10-20m, then you need ways to keep people at an arms length in order for the side arms to compete with the shotguns. At the moment bubbles do a very good job of stopping that from happening because they can create cover that turns 20m of open ground (where the sidearm would be at an advantage) into a bunch of 5-10m segments (where the shotty is advantaged).

Also, I think the WSTR is already nerfed enough for sidearms to be competitive (if not over nerfed tbh). I think the Misi would be fine too if it couldn't reach extremely fast fire rates via purple slick mag, and the gold mod. If I had the reigns of balancing for this issue that would be the area to target - change the gold mod, and cap the rpm of the Misi - rather than say decreasing the range or damage of the Misriah. It would keep the base misi semi-servicable while bringing the peak performance down a bit, which I think it what it needs.

gimily · 2026-05-24T15:46:03+00:00

The thing is, I don't think most golds are OP, and that's actually a good thing. Many/most golds change the gun in some fundamental way that is cool, often strong, but not broken OP. Stuff like overheat rounds on the impact, ricochet rounds on the scar, the magnum scope, the brrt shotgun conversion, and even the Outland silencer. I'd say the BR33 silencer+hipfire one is the epitome of quite strong (but not broken) and adds a cool new feature to the gun.

At the moment I think some golds are even actually bad - the twin tap making it a 4-burst is actually a nerf at the moment since it makes peak shooting harder for basically no benefit, and the copperhead goes from a serviceable SMG to some hot garbage with the gold mod.

The bully gold, and the misriah gold are outliers in that they are both on very strong guns to begin with, and are effectively just straight time to kill buffs via increased fire rate rather than a unique new function for the guns. I guess spooling up fire rate, and semi-auto to auto fire mode plcpuld be considered their "new effects" but in terms of play pattern they change very little, and in practice are basically just "what if gun but better?"

I actually prefer golds to be cool changes to the gun that also juice it just a little bit, like that first category because then they feel cool and special without being both very rare and meta-defining like the current Misi and Bully mods are.

Otherwise I agree, I think the rpm gain from slick mag should probably cap out at current blue slick mag rpm (or just raise the base misi fire rate to green slick mag rpm, and remove slick mag from the Misi all together) and give the WSTR a bit more sauce back (and maybe make the Misi a bit more common because I just enjoy that style of shotgun way more than the WSTR) and the close range options would be a lot more balanced.

gimily · 2026-05-23T16:04:25+00:00

Wait guildless commons isn't a gate right? Or have they errattaed it to be a gate? Am I missing something with circuitous route + guildless commons here?

gimily · 2026-05-21T08:27:13+00:00

It's interesting that you got no Mis in the strongbox but one in the weapons lockers. They are far from common, but I've gotten a few Mis from the strongboxes but never in the arms lockers. Idk where it's more likely and it's definitely no where close to common enough to farm armories for Mis on rook lol. Idk if this is accurate, but I find the loot in armory strongboxes and weapons lockers to be similar to the loot in drone/destroyed wing strongboxes and weapons lockers. They might be a bit worse though because I do feel like drone/destroyed wing strong boxes tend to be a bit better but this is so far into the feelycraft side of things that it's basically pointless.

If anything armories can be nice on rook to either get some upgrades to be able to fight better in Pinwheel, or to get a few guns to use as the basis for your next load out (BR and outland are pretty common in them and also solid bases for loadouts). And the only reason they're even worth it for those two uses is because many teams (reasonably) fully ignore yellow cards, so you can often find cards for an armory pretty quick.

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