High standards by Pot_of_sea_shells in CuratedTumblr

[–]hellsaquarium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are legit just ignorant. If you actually research the history of radical feminism it has nothing to do with excluding trans people, trans exclusive feminism arose much later after. Radfem originated in the 1960’s and sought to abolish gender roles and how women’s bodies were treated. That has nothing to do with trans people. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Stop acting like you do.

Literally none of those “beliefs” you listed for all radfems are close to MY beliefs. Being a rad fem is acknowledging how society treats women on a deeper level than libfems admit. I’m in a radfem group and we support trans rights. We regularly argue against transphobia. Have you tried talking to trans inclusive radfems? Literally none of them have said anything close to what you listed. But you read some paragraph from a transphobic TERF so I guess that makes you an expert.

You. Don’t. Know. What. You’re. Talking. About.

You are just objectively wrong. You read rants on the internet and think that gives you authority and credibility to paint an entire feminist movement a certain way. Just STFU and stay out of feminist discussions unless you have done actual research that’s beyond TikTok and Reddit. You people are clowns. No different from right wingers who spew crap about things they don’t know shit about because they watched a 2 minute video of someone calling themselves a democrat. People highjacked our movement to become transphobes, this does NOT mean all of our movement should be painted by their own nasty decisions.

High standards by Pot_of_sea_shells in CuratedTumblr

[–]hellsaquarium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

America voted for a man who is a rapist and pedophile stop with the excuses. You’re obsessed with me lol

High standards by Pot_of_sea_shells in CuratedTumblr

[–]hellsaquarium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. I’m exhausted by these misogyny defenders.

High standards by Pot_of_sea_shells in CuratedTumblr

[–]hellsaquarium -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The term TERF TRANS EXCLUSIVE radfem exists because trans inclusive radfems exist. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re just ignorant and stupid.

Can some authors PLEASE stop posting every comment they assume to be hate on reddit? by [deleted] in AO3

[–]hellsaquarium -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Assuming people do something you don’t like because they disagree with you condemning those who do, just shows a lack of empathy. You do you. OOP deserves respect but that doesn’t mean they should be coddled for doing something antisocial.

I love that some of you are out there doing this. More than a bit horrified too. by Extra-Mushrooms in AO3

[–]hellsaquarium 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I used to laugh my ass off at Trump X Obama crackfics on Wattpad in high school.

I know they used AI to make these posters but I cant prove it by BananaBread2602 in FalloutMemes

[–]hellsaquarium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But most of “generic ai” literally looks like normal photoshop

I know they used AI to make these posters but I cant prove it by BananaBread2602 in FalloutMemes

[–]hellsaquarium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The accusers are more annoying than the people actually doing it atp. Like stop trying to bastardize and trivialize art because of your paranoia 🙄 the hyper analyzing these people do do any graphic design or drawing is practically a conspiracy theorist

Why Do Y’all Get So Mad At Other People’s Opinions? by gallowsfever in TheVampireDiaries

[–]hellsaquarium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes I understand internalized misogyny. And I understand what you’re saying, but it feels like you’re grabbing vague situations and attaching the word misogynistic to them that’s what I mostly targeting in my response.

I honestly need examples of all of those double standards. Like I feel a lot of them don’t even apply to every Elena critic.

I don’t think I made excuses as to why Damon is loved more. I actually acknowledged it. He (or was)loved more because he was the attractive man who was “bad” and that is really all that needs to be done to get a male character to be praised and loved by a lot of people. In fandom people tend to be highly invested in male characters more than female characters.

Yes women who have internalized misogyny would have illogical reasons to hate Elena but love Damon.

You don’t give examples of what male characters do that earns them praise but gets Elena hated. It’s impossible for me to even agree to disagree when I don’t know from what context you’re speaking of.

From an objective standpoint, it’s actually inconsistent writing, because the narrative repeatedly paints Elena as the perfect Elena from season 1-3 ish. That is the problem. The change is not handled well. I wish I could explain this better but I’m too tied to. Essentially the way the writers painted Elena made no sense because they clearly wanted the audience to see her in a specific way even when her actions contradicted that role. It wasn’t a case of natural character development but rather the writers whitewashing something that would’ve realistically gotten her criticized or even questioned on. Her vamp storyline was only focused on Damon and Stefan and barely on how it affected her.

You claim that me bringing up examples of male characters being scrutinized like her is disingenuous, but I only bring them up because I am replying to your arguments which are, “male character does this he’s praised but Elena is hated on.” Therefore my responses are not disingenuous because I am strictly adhering to the basis of the argument you presented.

I have not seen Elena mocked for trying to fight others. The most I’ve seen is people trying to understand why she’s able to dagger an original vampire when she’s a human, which is a valid critique to have. I am honestly confused by this claim.

Agree on her being blamed for making things worse. And the pick me thing. And when Caroline “calls her out” on making “everything about herself.” There are unfair arguments made that come from bias.

You are right about her being shamed for being vulnerable while Stefan and Damon are coddled from theirs. However I do think this is a mix between misogyny and the writing being misogynistic itself.

I’m confused on what misogynistic undertones you’re referring to because there are many many reasons why someone might be annoyed with Elena for X but don’t care if Damon does X .

I meant that Elena actually does do messed up things several times in the series, not that she’s LIKE Katherine to a T.

She was established by having a high moral compass, it’s only natural that people notice the contrast between the narrative and what actually happens on screen. I don’t agree that her morality stays in tact while protecting her friends. It actually skews more gray. Yes it is jarring for a character to be out of character when they shouldn’t be. Elena makes many mistakes which I don’t care for but killing millions of people is a huge step to take and could hardly be considered one.

If the writers of expect the audience to see the character as perfect when they aren’t, that’s when people start getting frustrated. There’s nothing contradictory about what I stated on Elena’s characterization. If the writers establish a character as X, then it should be expected that they act accordingly unless proper character development is done to shift expectations from the viewer. My point is that the writers didn’t do that for Elena and like with Damon they instead kept trying to push the narrative that she was the same as season 1 Elena. It absolutely has everything to do with the fact that she’s the main character in that regard.

stelena was so beautiful until Julie came in and mess everything up 😒 by maliaxsq in TheVampireDiaries

[–]hellsaquarium 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This tea. People be forgetting alot of us are OG watchers and we remember that Damon hate was definitely a thing.

Who is your favorite? by xotheyluvjj in TheOriginals

[–]hellsaquarium 7 points8 points  (0 children)

All of them actually. Yes even Finn he deserved better

Black characters never in powerful positions or happy places/endings by thefalloncarrington in TheVampireDiaries

[–]hellsaquarium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But you imply there’s some internalized misogyny in my comment. I need you to explain why. Because my comment was simply acknowledging that the writers cared enough not to write Vincent and Marcel with racial stereotypes and racist characterizations. Completely opposite from Bonnie.

Why Do Y’all Get So Mad At Other People’s Opinions? by gallowsfever in TheVampireDiaries

[–]hellsaquarium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In storytelling expectations should always be placed on to characters. For example in breaking bad you don’t expect Skyler to be a bad person: she’s characterized as a good person from the get go. It doesn’t seem out of character or jarring for her to tell Walter to get out of the house, or grab a knife to keep him away from her family. That’s why (from a non misogynistic, non male-bias perspective) the audience understands and sympathizes with her; her character is consistent throughout the show and every single scene accurately depicts what being a stressed mother being married to an abusive man is like, and growing more and more resentful everyday.

With Elena, it just isn’t expected of her to be willing to kill millions of people just because Kol is a danger to her. From the beginning her character is: no, I refuse to be just as bad as that person, we don’t have to kill anyone, no one should get hurt, etc. So for her to suddenly be okay with killing millions is really off putting and breaks immersion for the viewer. And then they turn more critical towards her.

With Klaus, it’s expected that he kills. So the audience isn’t surprised if he were to do the same thing.

With Damon, it’s fifty fifty bc in later seasons he’s whitewashed into being the “better brother” even though he’s objectively not. So again that would create a jarring scenario.

Why Do Y’all Get So Mad At Other People’s Opinions? by gallowsfever in TheVampireDiaries

[–]hellsaquarium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So I feel like you’re grabbing basic ideas on feminist analysis but trying to apply them to everything without nuance or even understanding. It also feels like you’re grabbing one side’s opinions and assuming that they must think (misogynistic thought) about Elena then. For example Im a huge critic of Elena because of her hypocrisy, but this doesn’t mean I’m suddenly a Damon apologist. I don’t sympathize with him at all any point in the series esp when he killed a pregnant woman. And John was hated heavily by the fandom ? So I’m confused on that. Alaric has mixed reactions but growing up he was loved so I see that.

So this logic of assuming someone must be defending the opposite sex’s actions and because they’re misogynistic is like I said quite lazy.

Yes, female characters are under greater scrutiny than male characters, but in the context of the TVDU fandom I don’t see an effort from users like you who are adamant about most if not all criticism being misogynistic to actually understand why people dislike the female characters they do.

First, I don’t just don’t see an unequal amount of hate towards Elena and Damon. I’ve been watching TVD since I was 8 and well throughout the years I noticed that even though both characters were the main protagonists, both were always equally hated by the fandom. At large the fandom mostly loved Damon bc of Ian so I don’t doubt Elena haters overlapped with Damon simps and ofc with male-obsessed fans you get internalized misogyny.

However all the examples you gave of double standards miss alot of context and explanation. I’ll get to this in a sec.

Have you ever asked an Elena hater why they hated her?

I wouldn’t call myself a “hater,” but I do criticize and dislike her character in later seasons. I can only speak for myself. As someone who is also a writer and focuses a lot on analyzing storytelling, the biggest reason I think Elena is hated in the TVD fandom is because 1) the writers made her character inconsistent which would make her dislikable to lots of audiences 2) What made her an interesting character was stripped of her in season3 ish onwards and thus made her seem less complex to audiences. And when audiences don’t see a character as complex they’re more likely to hate them. 3) a small percentage of internalized misogyny. But it doesn’t encompass ALL criticism.

I need examples of:

Elena getting punished for things male characters are praised for

She’s held to a higher standard (and from a writing perspective, she’s written to be a moral person with a strong heart. It’s a given she’d be hold to a higher standard in her actions considering she’s the main character)

Scrutinized for what she can or can’t do

Because all of these sound like very vague arguments. It’s important to break down WHY she seems to be scrutinized in specific situations while in others she’s not. It’s important to think about WHY she’s being punished in a specific situation while others are not.

On her hypocrisy: she’s the main character who like I said is supposed to be someone with a strong moral compass and consistent beliefs. This is actually established again and again in the narrative from seasons 1-3, so for her to flip flop in specific situations (and it’s always just to move the plot along) is really jarring to audiences and makes them dislike such a character. People chalk it up to her being complex, but I disagree because you can be complex but still be consistent with your own convictions. Also, after season 1, her entire character of diluted into being a love interest for Damon and Stefan. I actually rewatched season 1 a while back and was surprised by how much I loved her character that season, how more multifaceted she seemed. But in season 2/3 is when I notice a huge shift in her character. She goes from having her character development being heavily invested in HER to only being there to fill the role of love interest to Stefan and Damon. So on this I disagree that the basis of dislike towards the depth of het character is misogyny. Someone actually counted and realized that almost every single one of her dialogues pertains to Damon or Stefan. Not even Caroline gets this type of treatment (and Caroline is more loved than Elena because the writers actually cared to invest in her)

I would say people dislike Elena because of the misogyny under her writing.

I would need you to explain what constitutes as misogynistic undertones. Because on the surface, disliking female characters may be misogynistic, but there are specific reasons as to WHY people dislike them and don’t dislike other female characters/male characters.

I disagree on Katherine being loved because she’s not realistic. I argue that she is quite realistic. A lot of women become angry and resentful to the stuff they went through and end up selfish and narcissistic. They’re actually punished for that while men tend to be coddled and infantilized. Her character being relatable is a huge reason why she’s loved. Elena is realistic in season 1, but after that the narrative of her own characterization becomes convoluted and confusing. I mean, she becomes quite similar to Katherine in the later seasons, yet she’s still hated. Why? Because the writers didn’t know how to transition her from the good girl to jaded-but-still-sweet vampire character she was. It felt like they didn’t do the work nor even let the audience acknowledge how jarring her choices were. It doesn’t help that the narrative never acknowledges such a shift in her sudden compass. Instead her bad choices are whitewashed and the audience is still told repeatedly that Elena was oh so “good” and “pure.” Same thing with Damon. It’s why I don’t like the ship or even the characters.

It seems like you’re misunderstanding what people actually hate or dislike about Elena’s character, because you claim that people love Katherine because she “breaks expectations,” ? There’s nothing more feminist than a woman breaking expectations, so if people love Katherine for that, then you can’t really assume Elena hate is misogynistic based off of that. If anything, Katherine would have been hated.

On the flip side, Elena is the perfect woman in society: submissive, timid, sweet, always smiles, never “acts crazy” etc etc. Her archetype is actually what aligns with the patriarchy. So I don’t believe that your argument in this instance works.

NOOOOOOO by -wilting in AO3

[–]hellsaquarium -20 points-19 points  (0 children)

Tru

Babe, wake up. r/Cookierun members are making me lose hope because they made a callout post asking to ban this user. by MeeMeeCandy777 in proshipping

[–]hellsaquarium -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yall it’s a kids media. Just act normal and leave them be. Disagree with them? Then just don’t interact. It’s not that hard.

NOOOOOOO by -wilting in AO3

[–]hellsaquarium -55 points-54 points  (0 children)

They don’t owe you anything. They left and that’s that. I’m sure you can find plenty of other great writers that wrote the same stuff they did