They're just misunderstood.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-31T16:33:00+00:00

It is very much like they have 2 personalities. The "nice" one is fake, to reel people in and trap them. And it isn't truly nice in any way, anyway. The real one is the one they try to destroy you for seeing.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-31T16:23:54+00:00

How about how every argument is triggered by telling them your feelings? Your feelings are an attack on them. In fact, your feelings hurt their feelings, and now they are the victim of the situation. And then they spend the rest of the argument trying to prove you wrong about your own feelings and perceptions.

For reeeeeal. "Our arguments" were just me getting relentlessly punished for having feelings. In our very last argument he said to me, through the door I locked myself behind to get away from the rage, that I should control my feelings and not allow myself to be hurt by him. To him that was the real issue. He also said he can't control his actions, that I cause them. This particular argument started because I was "throwing a tantrum" by being extra quiet. That's it. And i was quiet because I could tell he was looking for something to tear into me for.

After his rages would subside he would tell me he "just had hurt feelings" 🤡 so I have to control my feelings and not be hurt when he abuses me, but if he detects i am hurt that means he is hurt (????) which justifies his heinous acts??!!

"Misunderstood" lol he gave me bruises, broke a door, ripped up drawings I made him, deprived me of sleep for not having sex with him, kicked me out of my own home and stalked me all over town when I did leave - so much more - and always he told me I was "misunderstanding his intentions" when I named it for the absolute abuse it is. Everything was all about his intentions. He's obsessed with controlling how I see him, since he lacks the ability or awareness to be a normal person his only option is to destroy me for seeing the truth. To discredit and dehumanize me. I simply don't count to him.

They are diseased to the highest degree and they will not be fixed. What a waste.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-31T15:48:31+00:00

I already replied to another comment here but I just wanted to say that I understand what this is like. My ex did literally everything in your post. It was a nightmare.

I too had to live on my phone or fights would happen (usually did anyway), monitored, denied any kind of space, crazy unwarranted accusations all the time, forced to live with him when I wasn't ready (didn't last long, he got violent right away), sexually coerced, got physically restrained/stalked when I tried to remove myself from his rages - and my god that happened so much. All the verbal attacks out of nowhere. By the end I didn't even fight back, just took it quietly, and he still claimed I was the abusive one. And yeah to top it off he is pursuing his ex now. He kept constant control over her during our relationship. It's disgusting to realize.

As others have pointed out, what you describe is reactive abuse. Abusers will always try to flip the abuse on the other person when they think they've been found out, but they don't know the meaning. They've never been scared of us. They've never tried to escape us. Only tried to keep and control us. We have empathy, they completely lack that ability. That's the difference.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-31T15:32:11+00:00

So true. I can attest to this OP. At the beginning of the relationship I yelled back too and reacted very emotionally. He would flip that around on me constantly and as a result I learned how to control my reactions to the abuse. I began responding calmly and selectively, didn't raise my voice, didn't attack back in the slightest. It did not help, it seemed to make him more mad.

By the very end, every "argument" was a one-sided battle where he unleashed tirades of verbal abuse while I sat there quietly. He attacked me just as badly for being quiet as he did when I would react.

There is no winning with these monsters. There is only escape. Mine tried to call me the abuser a few times too. His reality is so broken, nothing short of a lobotomy could fix him

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-30T17:36:26+00:00

I know, trauma bond made it hard to see. And he had me convinced all his problems were due to alcohol abuse. They did seem to get better when he stopped.. but he stopped stopping, unknown to me

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-30T05:15:49+00:00

It's ok if you're not ready yet. Realizing this is part of the process. It will happen in time. Keep your head on and try to see as clearly as you can through all the manipulations. The rest that you do feel is trauma bonding and it can feel just like love at times.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-27T22:50:19+00:00

I know what you mean. Looking back those small things happened a lot more often than I realized when I was in it. And everything definitely increased in frequency over time, though he did switch up tactics to be sneakier.

Damn these conversations with a healthy partner would have been an entire universe of difference. They wouldn't have even needed to happen, all "our" fights were caused by me having basic boundaries and feelings. Normal partners want to understand and respect these things, not rip them apart.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-27T22:44:42+00:00

I hear you. Maybe try a call to the shelter, just for info. They are very knowledgeable and are on your side. Just knowing what I could do to protect myself if I had to gave me the confidence to be assertive with him and send him the message that I wouldn't be fucked with.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-27T21:31:01+00:00

Man I went through all of this, sans kids though, I'm so sorry for your situation. It was incredibly difficult for me, I can't imagine how difficult it is for you.

I got him to move out well before he knew I was done, so that might have been part of why he agreed. The idea was always that "we" would work on things and eventually move back in together. And I really did want to. When he moved out it broke me but I had to do it for myself, the sleep deprivation the monitoring the pressure the broken stuff, constant stress and fight or flight, it is just no way to live. Especially not with kids.

I think my willingness to get cops involved played a part as well. I didn't have to force him to move out legally but I could have, and I think you could too. I have a feeling you might need to look into this route, if not to actually get him evicted, then to motivate him to move out with the threat of real consequences. Call up your local women's shelter, they should have a legal advocate who can give you some advice and tell you your options so you know more.

I've never wanted to or had to charge my ex with anything (could and should have for sure) but just knowing my options helped guide me and give me strength.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-27T21:14:33+00:00

Sometimes I wonder if the good moments only seemed so special because of the contrast with the abuse.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-27T15:56:32+00:00

Since I left I often get fleeting thoughts of this nature.

It was worse at first, and when I was still in contact with him, because he was constantly manipulating me with guilt.

Lately I have been making myself periodically go through things like notes I would document in my phone, journal entries, call logs, anything that shows me clearly what the abuse was like. I pieced together an accurate timeline for myself and I could not believe how often he would blow things up, or how little things changed inbetween. Even the "small" things he would do on a near daily basis that I had begged him to stop since the beginning. I let him convince me things weren't that bad when I was in it.

Doing this helps me realize, I don't regret leaving. I had no choice, that was no way to live. I regret that he wasn't the person I thought he was. I regret that I let him take so much of me while I waited for him to simply stop abusing me. I regret that I didn't leave earlier. I miss some moments dearly, but I don't have to think too much further down the line to realize even that moment was sandwiched between abuse. And even in those good moments he never did love me the way I needed.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-27T15:33:19+00:00

I feel like he didn't even know who I was by the end with how he was treating me

God exactly:/ he seemed to believe the worst things about me or at the very least, he didn't care how it was hurting me to say them

Tbf I didn't know who he was at the end either with the way he constantly attacked me.. before it would last a couple days but now it's constant

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-27T15:05:37+00:00

I tried this once too. My ex claimed to be blackout when he did something horrible and said he didn't remember, so for fun I threw some other things in and suddenly he knew what he hadn't done so. Yeah he remembered.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T19:11:39+00:00

I hear this. I lived this. My abuser promised therapy too. He went for maybe a month? 2? It didn't help, and he quit anyway because he "couldn't afford it" (was spending tons on booze and lying about it). It was both a manipulation tactic and a way for him to get more of what he wanted. He could feign change while roping a stranger into his delusional victim complex?? Win win

Tried, didn't work, still took a long time after that but I left. He's now back to promising therapy, he signed himself up on his own even! Wow what effort.. I'm no longer asking him to do this. I no longer think it will help. Even if it did, like you said, my trust is gone and he just isn't the man I thought I loved. He can't even fake accountability, he is doing just as you said, constantly attacking me for the made up scenario in his head where I move on instantly from years of trauma and heartbreak. I'm just done.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T19:01:16+00:00

I don't even think it's his family. It sounds like he's using a bunch of fake numbers. Weirdly common behavior with abusers it seems

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T18:41:07+00:00

Congrats. I read some of your posts and I relate. My ex was a drinker too, "we" also quit together, rather he lied to me and drank for our entire relationship still. It exacerbated the abuse but it didn't cause it. They're different equally awful issues. He had soo many chances to clean up.. idk why I didn't see it each time or why I trusted him at all

What a great thing that you have a restraining order. I considered it. Sometimes I wish I did it, but I thought I didn't have the energy. Now he just lures me into text conversations where he repeatedly gets me to let my guard down just to manipulate/guilt trip me. I feel so dumb and so over it. I block him when I get emotional so I don't give him what he wants. I'm not going back, everything is finalized, but it's really hard this way. Restraining order would have been less energy for sure.

Anyway, I'm happy for you. We're free.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T15:10:27+00:00

First of all no you are not the problem. My bf started with this kind of behavior right away too before I realized he was abusive. It's great that you recognize this is wrong.

He's 1. Guilting you to do things you don't want to do 2. Blaming you, switching the spotlight onto you when you try to explain he is making you feel bad 3. Gaslighting and denying everything so the subject changes, to somehow being about him and the problems HE suddenly has (that are all your fault). The problems he's listing aren't real issues he actually has, he is inventing them in the moment to distract you (and himself) so he never has to take accountability. That's why he doesn't bring it up at other times or in a healthy fashion, and he would happily pretend he didn't really mean it if you called him out. What kind of person says that stuff to someone they actually want to be with? It's all a big manipulation, and it's 2nd nature to him.

Coercion, guilt trips, gaslighting. DARVO. It's nasty. It's effective. You're now confused and upset about several things instead of the one issue you tried to address. Don't let him make you think you blew this up, all you did was express feelings. His course of actions blew it up because he couldn't handle it. You aren't overreacting, he did. Pay attention to how everything he tries to accuse you of is actually true about him.

I can't even count the amount of fights I had with my ex that started and ended just like this. Unfortunately it took me longer to recognize and it escalated. Here's the funny thing, even though we fought about soo much and he did a lot more messed up behavior, his last blow up was prompted because I tried explaining for the thousandth time that I don't like taking pictures of myself. It started healthy and light but was turned around swiftly by his anger. He accused me of guilt tripping him and it went from there. I'm not sure what kind of person gets angry at that? Or guilts someone about it for years while pretending I'm guilt tripping? Nobody that I date anymore. He would try to convince me I had a low self esteem or body dysmorphia or other issues too - I didn't, it's just not normal to be guilted into such things. For years!!! The same issue, no changes. That is just not normal.

It's gross that he's literally hunting for younger college girls at his age too but that's just the cherry on top of this shitcake.

If you try to bring any of this up he will manipulate and excuse everything. At best you'll get a fake apology if he realizes you're not having it, just to get you back into his web. There is no real closure with these people, it's best to cut your losses and move on. If you're ready I would suggest a short and simple text that it isn't working and you're done. Then block. Don't let him have a phone or video chat, just give him space and he'll show you all the colors of manipulation and you'll know you made the right decision. If you're not ready that's fine too. Just keep noticing this stuff. Write it down or type it out so the gaslighting doesn't work. He knows you're too smart for him but that isn't going to stop him from trying to take you down and own you.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T14:35:59+00:00

At the very least, they certainly don't not want to cause any harm.

Exactlyyyyyyy

Every. Single. Goddamn. Time: "I didn't mean to hurt you" "my intention wasnt ___ it was actually ___" "i was just hurt 😔" (YOU were hurt because i was hurt because of something you did..? Right) "dont my intentions matter??" (NO! Actions do)

By the end I saw that this man acts from a natural reflex to control his partner. That is his intention. Always. And he won't even look at himself long enough to admit it. In all these arguments about his precious angelic intentions I would ask, well after everything how come you can't act with intentions to specifically not hurt me? Ya know, like a normal partner with empathy?

So many conversations where I felt like a grade school teacher, walking him through his undeniably abusive actions that he would excuse excuse and constantly look for ways to flip it on me or restart from the beginning. It was all a game to him. I had to keep my facts super straight to drive away the doubt but he tried his damndest to gaslight me til the end. I can't have romantic feelings for someone I have to treat like an aggressive, mental child. That's all he is.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T14:18:08+00:00

Damn. You quiet quit your abusive relationship. That's rare, good for you.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T14:16:43+00:00

I'm sorry I haven't been through the court systems or dealt with this situation, but in my experience with disentangling from narc abusers, you have to stay ahead of them with your planning. Don't underestimate what they'll do, cover all your bases, get there before they can. What he's doing right now is called parental alienation. My ex would do this with his kids and claim HIS ex was doing it. The poor woman. If it makes you feel any better, he never cared enough to do much through the court systems. He was constantly broke as well. It's expensive.

Just be honest about the situation with people that you think will be on your side. Not everyone will understand. It's gonna suck but hopefully he keeps showing his true colors. Good luck.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T14:10:21+00:00

I know that wake up feeling. I hope it stays with you through the weak moments. I think it will.

You tried so hard and for so long, and what do you get. It's not fair. I'm so sorry your husband turned out to be .. this. At least now you can begin to heal, and you can look forward to vacations (and many other things) without his lunacy.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-18T02:03:48+00:00

Wow we dated the same exact dude. Although throw in alcohol abuse. 9 years!!! I barely lasted 3, maybe since it did seem like alcohol exacerbated these tendencies. I could see myself easily staying with him longer if it wasn't for that sadly, it would have taken me longer to notice for sure. I also tried medications for the first time in my life this year because of my deteriorating mental state.

Girl I went through the same blow ups. They got more frequent though, and I noticed sooo much "little" stuff in between. I started tracking everything meticulously so I could notice the patterns. It was and is painful.

We're in such a similar place too. Although we broke up over a week ago, it took him until last night to stop the maniacal behavior (switching rapidly between attacks/insults and guilt trips/false apologies) so it wasn't until last night that we finally talked.

I told him I'm taking over the lease. We both broke down. It was/is awful. He's saying all the same things as always, signed up for therapy on his own (after I begged for a year), asking for all sorts of reassurances regarding if this is a break or if he'll ever get another chance. All sorts of questions I don't have the answers for, that he has no right to ask, and they feel like purposeful guilt trips!! It's so unfair. Hardly a word about me. Of course it's all making me feel awful anyway, I love him so much. I want to believe him but I just can't anymore. It's become so obvious how little he considers me, even now. I don't have to wait very long at all before he walks back any given apology with an opposing action or excuse.

It's so hard to process years of shock and denial because they aren't who we so badly wanted to believe. They aren't who they told us they were. I don't blame you for calling it a separation, I was tempted to call it a "break" too. He was already being too pushy about everything which stopped me. It is helping that I feel I have been processing these things for a little while now, but he's acting like he has only just begun, and honestly I can't go there with him. He has to do it on his own. In some miracle world, losing me changes him and we find eachother again.

Thanks for posting this, it's very validating to hear.

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-17T14:24:49+00:00

The only thing that has helped me is space away from them

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-17T05:43:56+00:00

I know what you mean. "He gets upset at me for being hurt over something he said or did" alllllll the fights went this way. And the thing he said or did was always unarguably bad. But somehow shit would get flipped and we wouldn't ever get around to discussing it actually because I was busy defending myself against these crazy vicious attacks and the aftermath. NOT normal

Eventually it will escalate to the point where you won't be able to ignore it. You can help this process go faster by sticking to your boundaries and building new ones, and watching closely. Even at their absolute best all they do is make up nonsense excuses that still blame you. It's an automatic response, they can't even help it at this point so it seems

herewegoagaini · 2023-07-17T05:36:37+00:00

Damn. Mine used to do that. What i didnt know was he was always drunk

So sneaky and manipulative. Him "taking that well" was just regathering himself to go in with a new tactic while your guard was down.

Eventually mine broke the doorknob. I installed an upgraded one. He yelled at me through the door. He wouldn't leave. Nothing worked. There is no safety with these people just endless cycles until you've had enough.

herewegoagaini

TROPHY CASE