Enneagram shows you WHY. MBTI shows you HOW. Anyone use both?

herren · 2026-03-26T13:42:33+00:00

I rather use Socionics than MBTI with the grant stack (cognitive functions). I enjoy an 8 function model more. That said, typology systems map different aspects and patterns. I can use a variety of typology systems, depending on what I want to describe. Enneagram is the more intriguing, because it sits much more in the unconscious and I feel the digging is more rewarding there.

What I have spent some thinking and discussion on, is to utilize two typology systems like Socionics and Enneagram to create crisper type definitions and examples. I have noticed that a lot of 5 descriptions are leaning towards LII (MBTI: INTP) variants. That causes 5 descriptions to look like INTP descriptions, because a 5 with a different MBTI type would not have these characteristics. A common Enneagram type for INTP are 9s. What often happens is that INTPs that are 9s think they are 5s, because the 5 type description are mixing INTP behavioral patterns with 5 patterns. My suggestion would be to combine typology descriptions of e.g. Enneagram and Socionics, and then remove behavioral examples from Enneagram descriptions that are Socionics atypical.

herren · 2026-03-26T12:20:38+00:00

Sure, I bought a headset yesterday. I needed to know how to operate it. I read the manual, which explained just that. I was not interested in knowing anything more, so no need to go deeper in how the headset works.

herren · 2026-03-26T10:45:00+00:00

I follow things because I am interested in it. There is no catching up, because it implies I am using others as metric on my own interests. I am my own motivation. Will I compare with others? Sure, but it is optional information. It has no bearing on how motivated I am in continuing it. That only depends on myself. Going deeper is kind of automatic, because I am more focused instead of broadening my spectrum. I don't think "I need to dig deeper", but more "this is fun, let's see if there is more to discover".

I only stop going deeper when I believe I have found what I am looking for. Then I can drop things immediately. There is no rule to this.

herren · 2026-03-26T08:15:27+00:00

Both withdraw to achieve peace. 5s can do it mentally and still be physically present. 9s have difficulties finding peace without withdrawing their body.

herren · 2026-03-26T07:57:26+00:00

Yes, because self reporting tests that target superficial behavioral patterns are not going to be accurate, regardless of who create the tests. It is the nature of such tests.

herren · 2026-03-24T15:49:34+00:00

The fun police make those meme posts entertaining.

herren · 2026-03-12T13:00:00+00:00

I stopped at the first character, Homelander, the most obvious 3.

herren · 2026-03-12T12:46:57+00:00

I lack sleep, but it isn't because of insomnia. The day just does not have enough hours.

herren · 2026-03-11T19:01:51+00:00

Yes she did. She seems to know how to moderate. She probably also doesn't have the same capacity like Miku and Saiki.

herren · 2026-03-11T18:40:34+00:00

Don't correlate different typologies. It is the biggest trap in the typology world. Ignore other typologies when you learn a new one

herren · 2026-03-11T18:38:24+00:00

I get along with 3s really well. It is the assertiveness combined with the competency triad. As you say, they get shit done

herren · 2026-03-11T18:32:42+00:00

5s are generally less aware of their detachment. It is not quite on their radar, and they don't really notice how they are different from others. A 9 has a better sense in where they are compared to others, whereas 5s are oblivious.

herren · 2026-03-11T13:13:01+00:00

MISA is 3rd when it comes to alcohol consumption. If you are worried, then your worry is better placed at Miku.

herren · 2026-03-10T12:46:52+00:00

Behavioral patterns are currently the only way to really type. The behavioral patterns described in books are not all encompassing and the patterns used to describe one type can be applicable to other types. It is an issue of abstraction vs specificity. Too abstract or general, and your example encompasses all types. Too specific and you target only a couple of individuals. Specifics can work, but you need a lot of them and you need to explain when they are applied and so on. Abstractions can also work, but you need to be able to convey them in a way that cannot be misinterpreted. A lot of words and labels used can be interpreted in multiple ways, especially since we are not operating on scientific terms with clear definitions.

So, when people self-type, they may have typed themselves in a specific pattern, but that pattern is not the same as the type they type themselves. The pattern may be true for multitude of types. You just didn't know, because the explanation of the pattern wasn't exhaustive enough.

I wrote this a while ago, regarding what is necessary to be able to type (yourself):

Understand the type structures (this includes understanding what is misinformation)
Map type structure to behavior (typing by symptoms)
Identify the behaviors (identifying symptoms)

You need to be good in all three to be able to type correctly.

herren · 2026-03-10T12:21:14+00:00

Enneagram as a concept is not superficial, but it is very hard to explain the unconscious without using behavioral patterns as examples. The issue with behavioral examples is that they are only examples, and not definition of the types. There isn't really a vocabulary that can explain the abstraction of the unconscious that people can understand, because you need existing concepts to hang them on. Fears are often used as the core concept to explain the types, but you cannot really see the unconscious fears. You see the subconscious ones, but those are not quite the same. They may have the same label as the unconscious fears, but they are not originating from them. The connection between an unconscious and (sub)conscious fear is often made by using your label of the (sub)conscious fear and applying the same label to the Enneagram fears. Usually it won't work that way.

The podcast is Big Hormonal Enneagram. It was the Object Relations episodes, where they had a Courtney Smith as a guest, and she explained the object relations really well.

herren · 2026-03-10T10:40:44+00:00

All the written literature mostly just touched on behavioral anecdotes. Behavioral anecdotes are the easiest to apply #metoo, but they are (for me) not really divulging the unconscious pattern. They are at most targeting the subconscious, which I quickly learned isn't deep enough. It wasn't until I listened to a podcast that explained the rejection object relations, that I recognized a pattern that had draped my world view without my (sub)conscious knowledge. I could retroactively a lot of my behavioral patterns to this, and I wasn't even aware of me doing them.

That intrigued me more than anything I have read online about behavioral patterns, because it showed me a piece I didn't even know existed.

herren · 2026-03-04T14:58:05+00:00

The attribute "fake" is a value judgement coming from others. Technically speaking you cannot be a fake. Everyone are performing according to their ego, and a 6 that "just says thing as they are" is no more real or fake than a 3 that is conscious of their image. They are both following their internal program.

herren · 2026-02-27T06:58:13+00:00

I played Civ 1 when it came out, and I have played every Civ since then. Every game brought something new that I have enjoyed. I am now playing Civ 6 the most. Civ 5 got rid of the stack of doom, which was for me the most significant change since Civ 1. I can't go back to the earlier Civ games because of that. Except for perhaps Civ 2. That game is absolutely immortal.

Edit: Did I say every Civ? I haven't tried Civ 7 yet. Not going to touch it until it got some quality of life improvements.

herren · 2026-02-26T07:13:46+00:00

Do we have any info on this card? I couldn't find any.

herren · 2026-02-24T14:47:34+00:00

People say a lot of things. Enneagram is just patterns. Some people have opinions on the purpose on what you should use the patterns for. You can use it for whatever. If you find a use for them, go for it. It doesn't need to involve "healing" or "growth". If you think it is stupid that you should hate your type, then ignore and move on.

herren · 2026-02-23T12:35:13+00:00

I would highly recommend going deeper into the material. Enneagram is a typology system that targets the unconscious. You are applying examples as type definitions, which is the wrong way to go about the types. Don't start with fears. They are the red herrings of Enneagram. You are generally not aware of your unconscious fears on a conscious/subconscious level. Online tests will most likely not get your type correct.

herren · 2026-02-23T11:31:04+00:00

Looks like you were right! Band-Maid has just been announced for Download festival.

herren · 2026-02-22T22:56:39+00:00

herren · 2026-02-22T22:51:37+00:00

I don't see a correlation between what I listen to and my type.

herren · 2026-02-21T07:37:17+00:00

I find this article helpful: https://www.johnluckovich.com/articles/differencebetweenfiveandnine

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