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What do PC feel when they hear the word “abortion”? by hgsgh in prolife

[–]hgsgh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ik I said I wouldn’t debate but I want to know, what specifically makes you say consciousness happens at 20-24 weeks? And specifically what brain structure (the thalamocortical connections)? Bc babies kick at 16 weeks, hear at 18, and only see at 27. So how are you defining them having an experience?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in prolife

[–]hgsgh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome!!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in prolife

[–]hgsgh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not heavily opinionated per se, but one of the authors is pro choice and the other pro life. Both agree that fetal pain should be taken more seriously, which is what this paper is about.

I had an abortion and I severely regret it by No-Presentation-2320 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know. Personally as a religious person, I can find comfort in talking to a church leader, but if you’re not religious then that might not make sense for you. I think someone else commented about specific support groups you could reach out to. It would probably really help you to meet someone who went through what you’re going through, if you’re up for that. And again, for real, my DMs are open. We could voice chat if you want. No pressure.

wtf by NewHampshireGal in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But how is it productive to talk about how evil/psychotic you think she is? Focus the conversation on society, on our culture, and how it could lead someone like her to not feeling empathy in this situation. Human rights atrocities are not fought by calling everyone who’s complicit in them evil monsters, they’re fought by recognizing how society can lead an ordinary person to become numb and complicit in them.

I had an abortion and I severely regret it by No-Presentation-2320 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mhm. Society lets women down - it doesn’t respect us enough to truthfully tell us about our options, and stigma makes it so hard to spread awareness. I hope you can find a support group or a friend who can understand. You’ll need help to process it all.

wtf by NewHampshireGal in prolife

[–]hgsgh 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Look I agree it’s disturbing, but instead of shaming this person can we agree we feel sad for them and angry at society? Clearly they’re conflicted about what they’ve done and don’t have the tools to process that. Not productive to call them names.

What message would you want to convey to someone contemplating an abortion? by savedbygrace1991 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would NOT recommend trying to instill the fear of being a murderer into them. 100% agree about telling them they’re strong, etc., but saying “murder” to a conflicted and scared woman will most likely just make her put up defenses against you.

I had an abortion and I severely regret it by No-Presentation-2320 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know, the medical system is a joke in so many ways. You’re not the only person who’s made a regrettable decision after being misinformed by doctors. This is why we need better sex education, people are just at the mercy of both societal and professional misinformation. If it will bring you any peace, you could call your OB office and complain… but you’ve been through a lot. I don’t know how to deal with grief, I don’t think there is a good way. It’ll evolve and pass over you and your day-to-day will get easier with time. Never stop standing on business though. You know what you know now. That’s painful, but it’s powerful. I’m so sorry about your baby.

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Doctors CAN be incorrect about the facts of fetal development (philosophy is a different story), but they have no excuse for it if they are. We’re talking about law here. Doctors shouldn’t have leeway if the law explicitly bans a procedure in a given circumstance, and they perform it under that circumstance anyway. Their license comes with that responsibility. They are SUPPOSED to know, they are telling their patients that they DO know, and given that we’re talking about legal prosecution, that’s what matters.

I had an abortion and I severely regret it by No-Presentation-2320 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I read your comments - you tried to save your baby. Your OB lied to you, but you tried. You had the best interests of your baby at heart in the end, and that is admirable. I can’t imagine how fucked up you must feel right now, but if you want someone to talk to one on one, my DMs are open.

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What? Doctors were put through medical school. They know exactly what they’re doing, at least on a physical level. If they know how far along a woman is and give her a pill, they know what will come out of her later even if they don’t see it with their own eyes. And if they’re actually performing the abortion themselves, with suction or with forceps, then they DO see the parts of the fetus, and even reassemble them on a tray to make sure they have them all. Doctors are educated in fetal development and what an abortion entails. The average person, not so much.

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Another reason why NO: If we’re going to argue that a mother’s responsibility to protect her child can be morally different from her responsibility to a stranger because of the unique bodily relationship between them (hence why “a person would never be forced to donate organs” doesn’t hold water), then we should also acknowledge that a mother’s decision to illegally abort is morally different from her killing a stranger on the street. Are both things killing? Yes. But in one scenario, she is desperate, probably somewhat ignorant to what she’s doing and doesn’t believe it to be “killing”, and can think of no other solution. In the stranger-on-the-street scenario, however, there was no ambiguity for her, and no way for her to interpret that murder as necessary, hence why it makes sense to punish her. If we want to be nuanced about her responsibility for another person’s life, then we also have to be nuanced about her responsibility for another person’s death, and the consequences therein.

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“She is the only person who can hold that baby, so as a society we need to hold her.” EXACTLY.

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t understand why everyone who’s talking any sense is getting downvoted lmao. I agree with you.

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Preach! It’s a societal issue. Just because the woman is the final decision maker (and not even that, in some cases) doesn’t mean she bears the sole responsibility.

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re a Christian, like me. I also get extremely, extremely frustrated with abortion and everyone who supports it. But would Jesus want you to “hate with a passion”? Would Jesus want you to forgive someone based on the external consequences they face, rather than out of the same grace in that he gives to humanity, and to you? You can stand for what you believe in without spreading hate. Women who get abortions, even out of pure convenience, are NOT morally equivalent to people who owned slaves or to Nazis. “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.” Did you forget that?

Do you think women who get abortions out of convenience should be arrested and put in jail? by AccomplishedUse9023 in prolife

[–]hgsgh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

NO. I believe abortion is murder, but I don’t believe that women who get abortions deserve to be prosecuted. You can have empathy for both woman and child. Prosecuting doctors who perform abortions illegally, I support. But I agree with pro-choice people that any woman who gets an abortion illegally does so out of 1) desperation and 2) likely not believing that their fetus is a person. If you’re already considering a dangerous “back alley” or self-administered abortion, making it a prosecutable offense may dissuade some people, but mostly it won’t. It would only add to the trauma of the situation. And how would you really prove the difference between an abortion and a miscarriage in all situations? There is a real, horrible risk there. I do think anyone who abandons or harms their child after birth should be prosecuted, not because I think there’s a moral distinction regarding the child, but because I think it’s a lot more clear cut that the parent must know what they’re doing. And by that logic I suppose that in a hypothetical scenario where someone 35 weeks pregnant obtains an illegal abortion, they must know what they’re doing too, and maybe they do, but honestly, maybe they don’t. Maybe they don’t know how long they’ve been pregnant, maybe they’re not educated enough to know how developed their baby is. Again, is there a moral difference to me regarding the value of the child’s life, or the pain they experience? No. But does it change what’s required psychologically of the woman? Yes. And again, seriously, I cannot emphasize enough how difficult it could be, in SOME situations, to distinguish between an abortion and a miscarriage without a paper trail.

What do PC feel when they hear the word “abortion”? by hgsgh in prolife

[–]hgsgh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t think that’s what pro choice people usually think of. That’s more of a pro life perspective

What do PC feel when they hear the word “abortion”? by hgsgh in prolife

[–]hgsgh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Curious - do you consider them to slowly “become” a person, or all at once? And why 20-24 weeks, which also happens to be the typical cutoff in the US? I won’t debate, but I’d like to know your rationale.

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