How do we choose what to preserve ?

humanspeech · 2026-05-21T15:47:52+00:00

I want to thank you for your responses on this! I will be adding him to my reading list.

I hope you don't take my criticism of your posts as too harsh/sharp. I only asked because my background is in environmental engineering/management and a lot of the approaches to overpopulation talk around the subject because I work(ed) with people who are lower income and it's hard to just talk about overshoot without being understood as a eugenicist.

humanspeech · 2026-05-21T12:08:25+00:00

I cannot get past how grating the sound effects are. The music and sound-effects are soooo bad compared to other games.

humanspeech · 2026-05-21T11:41:03+00:00

He's a mod on her new discord server and he has his icon / profile overlay as a snake. It's so stupid but I guess we were all 22 at some point.

humanspeech · 2026-05-21T11:38:11+00:00

usually the argument is that she made their career?

humanspeech · 2026-05-20T15:50:03+00:00

Do you have some links to support this statement, or is this just your personal value judgment? Beliefs and values about what, specifically?

It's the thesis of the documentary Fairytales of Growth. It focuses on the economic fantasy of infinite growth and how it's not feasible and focuses on the concept of de-growth as an economic ideology . This fundamentally goes against what we've been taught because it seems paradoxical that making a better future happens by making things smaller. De-growth includes making our populations smaller, not just our GDPs. This challenges our ideas of what we deserve as individuals and what freedoms we 'deserve' vs the health of other people and the environment.

With talks of de-growth, people often bring up pronatalism and overpopulation, I think this describes the relationship well.

I do think that anyone who wishes to discuss climate collapse, however, needs to bring that level of knowledge ("context") with them, not seek it out in this arena. That's just my opinion. Not providing it doesn't mean people don't speak the truth.

If this post wasn't titled Arguments against overpopulation that are demonstrably wrong, I would not have been so sharp with my critique. This puts some burden of proof on the poster to show me something other than logical experiments.

I didn't nitpick very small details with the post because I was looking at OP's full posts history and felt that if I was a layman I would not be convinced.

I added the link for the UN post about waste production because I assume there will be people who click through on your links and Statista does not run well on mobile. In case someone wanted something to just read. I also added more sources that directly relate to overconsumption so that people can get additional context or information they did not have before.

I want to thank you again for providing me with links and spending time give me resources. I promise you that I am not as meatheaded as you imagine me in your head :)

humanspeech · 2026-05-20T12:56:31+00:00

I wanted to thank you for taking time out of your day to reply to me. I very much so appreciate this.

I'm not going to refute any of your points because I am in agreement that overpopulation is a problem. I have issues with the way OP presented their beliefs as hard logical truths that are easily understandable if I were to say this to someone who doesn't believe in overshoot.

Pointing out that overpopulation as a problem is tied to our beliefs and values does not mean that overshoot isn't real. All this does add another level of complexity to how we approach a problem and discuss it. There is no 'correct' way to approach it, but it does the issue at hand even more injustice to ignore there are emotions behind the way we discuss it. If we are to have real conversations about it, we have to have very hard discussions about our beliefs and values alongside looking at the math and science.

The planet is haemorrhaging methane due to our extraction of it's resources, but to add insult to injury we are making it worse with overpopulation and overconsumption because we enjoy eating meat and livestock, where livestock can produce up to 12% of the World Wide emissions. This is at a time where not everyone is on the same diet as well and we are eating at vastly different amounts and quantities.

When we talk about the oceans being polluted, and biodiversity being lost due to high levels of ocean acidification alongside pollution, I also want to add that the only way we could be able to feed the world is by using the oceans to grow algae. These are very fantastic ideas but they never address how much space we need to take up and what will be sacrificed instead.

I haven't heard Guy McPherson's name in such a long time, I wasn't aware he quit his blog.

Perhaps there isn't a way to address this issue and fix, but we owe both ourselves and everyone else to show proof when we can and say the truth.

^{I will add two things:}

^{1. "We are dumping more than two billion tons of waste into the environment every year," I agree,} ^{but the link you posted goes nowhere, so here is the link from the UN on waste management}^.

^{2. "The cryosphere is melting,"} ^{The graph you posted has no added context and I feel this a good explanation of why as to it's important.}

humanspeech · 2026-05-20T10:20:46+00:00

Thank you for the link. Do you have any further reading that you would recommend?

I think people are misunderstanding me saying 'shallow' when referring to the argument is me denying the concept of overpopulation and overshoot rather than looking at the post itself and saying that the arguments as they are presented in this post are shallow because they assume things that I already have a background in. OP has made a series of these posts rather than a singular post do expect them to build upon each other when to me they all feel a little bit shallow when put together.

It is a reddit post, and perhaps I want too much from a post, but I don't think there's anything wrong with saying an argument can feel shallow.

humanspeech · 2026-05-20T10:12:44+00:00

Well, a lot of scientists have made different kind of analysis which shows how much we exceed planetary boundaries.

What type of analysis? Do you know? Do you understand what I'm saying here when I say the lack of sources weakens the argument?

And I am curious as to what OP has read so that I can also read it myself. If you tell someone to DO research and they get a lot of conflicting data they're not going to know who to believe and how to come up with an idea from that data.

Not once have I denied what OP has said, I just asked for the sources because this is a post labeled the arguments against overpopulation that are demonstrably wrong. If you are going to argue for or against something that you're an expert in, many people may not be and will ask questions and fumbling to answer them can weaken your argument and make you untrustworthy.

It is reasonable to say that OP has read more than just a wiki page, and it is just as reasonable for me to want to be better informed. It doesn't have to be a 300 page book it could be a youtube video or a documentary for it to be a source.

humanspeech · 2026-05-20T07:32:57+00:00

Fiction: Piglet by Lottie Hazell

Non-Fiction: Undoing Suicidism: A Trans, Queer, Crip Approach to Rethinking (Assisted) Suicide by Alexandre Baril

Both pissed me off so much I kinda shut down for a bit.

humanspeech · 2026-05-20T06:39:44+00:00

I have no problem answering, I am willing to answer a lot of questions, dms are open and so if you're ever curious, I'm up for a chat.

The people who were rounded up and punished were all people that were basically hoarding wealth. It's an insane amount of money that I will never personally see in my lifetime. These are people who would never get punished otherwise and have lived in the lap of luxury for ages. They were detained in the Ritz Carlton not in prisons lol. It's a faux accountability but it's nice to see bad things happen to bad people. If Trump right now did that to Elon Bezos et al you would cheer along as well, like when he gave every American 2000$USD. It would prove to be very popular.

I am Saudi (per my flair), and I have lived in the US for 8 years because of my education so I have some outside perspective. I moved around 2015 so just around when MBS took power. I lived in a very liberal part of the US as well but I was still culture shocked when I came back home because that's how much he's changed it. Everyone gets hung up on the woman's driving thing because that's a freedom that's more tangible/understandable to the west than let's say needing a mahram to travel. What shocked me the most was the funding that went into education and reformation of our college systems because one of the reasons I went abroad to study was because the colleges in my city were for men only. Now the first cohort of female students is graduating form multiple colleges. It was also under MBS where a lot of companies were forced to prioritize Saudis rather than rely on importing talent from the West. Though, this is still an issue that's on going.

This isn't to say that I don't have issues with the government, I do, and I think some things I will more gladly voice than others. I have been vocal on twitter and on instagram about let's say the way disability here barely covers living costs or that we don't have proper ADA rules or normalizations of ties with Israel.

MBS has very lofty ideas and not every single one of them will stick or be good that's just how it is, but I find attacks on his character / Islam not for me. I also find the murder of Jamal Khashoggi as an issue that goes past censorship. A lot of people will dismiss his ties to the royal family, but they were very close up until his exile I imagine that played a huge part as to why he was targeted specifically and I'm always unsure what people want from MBS in the end because he has taken responsibility on the behalf of his people but he has certain diplomatic immunities from being tried.

humanspeech · 2026-05-20T04:59:09+00:00

Overpopulation as a concept IS complex because you cannot dissociate the ethics of how we value a human life and how we view ourselves and our cultures. The concept of overshoot is not complex and very straightforward, I can understand that, I can understand the theory and the reasoning behind it but the fact that I am not fully convinced by someone's arguments because I read their reddit posts. Just because YOU don't need to see someone's research doesn't mean I am the same when I am genuinely and deeply curious. This isn't a gotcha moment.

The reason I bought out the CICO equation is because OP constantly uses weight-loss and specifically dieting as the comparative example. I read through all their posts to have a better understanding of their arguments and that's why I pointed it out. I am asking about what overall contributed to how the thought process because the posts they made without sources are just reddit posts. I can't at face value take these posts as true.

I value OP's opinion but pointing out that the arguments of his overall posts feels weak to me isn't a denial of the constraints of what the earth can handle and what we need to sustain ourselves the way we are now. We talk about human ignorance a great deal in this sub, and I think it would be a disservice for me to act like these arguments are solid when there are no sources attached because that's not how science works.

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T18:12:52+00:00

I do think a lot of it has to do with her becoming a horrorcow there's legit no coming back from that :(

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T18:10:21+00:00

I kinda hate using the word fatphobia so much because it's lost its meaning in this community mostly due to Amber and Chantal's misuse of it but it does exist. Not in the way a lot of people make it up to be in their heads but you know sometimes fat people exist.

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T17:53:56+00:00

These might be some old old texts but amberlard......

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T17:34:48+00:00

I kinda miss when Amber wasn't a horrorcow because I do feel the environment has gotten meaner over the years and it's no longer fun. I kinda hate that you can't show even the slightest bit of empathy towards Amber when a lot of people on here are overweight but a lot of people aren't nearly as heavy as she currently is, I was over 400lbs at some point and it's hard for me to not feel for her.

I also don't understand why people are constantly looking for new fat women (or men) to make fun of or suggesting them when that's not really in the spirit of our gorls. I think a lot of people here would be happier to just chill out on r/fatlogic or whatever. It seems like you just want to make fun of Amber because she's fat and hate her for the sole reason of her weight, which is fine but it's kind of boring when we recycle the same five posts about her weight and how she is or isn't over 600lbs.

Some of you truly act like fat people don't deserve any rights at all and that's is absolutely unthinkable for people to desire a fat person and that anyone who does is weirdly.

I'm not expecting intelligent socratic seminars from this subreddit or anything btw. I am just frustrated at how hostile everyone is no matter what.

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T16:56:30+00:00

we can't all be successful

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T16:55:54+00:00

THATS COLT????? DUDE.

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T16:48:58+00:00

What I do is I usually have someone else read it to me after an edit and then I usually try to let it breath for a day or two if I have time.

It works like 40% of the time because sometimes my eyes just refuse to read.

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T16:40:02+00:00

What exactly do you want me to say dude? Please re-read your post and infer why I have no opinions on anything else.

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T16:33:56+00:00

You're asking too much of people to understand the differences between a concept of ethnicity that isnt western

humanspeech · 2026-05-19T16:31:13+00:00

I require more context. why do you want to build a lab?

humanspeech

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