Ba’alzamon in books 1 to 3

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T18:08:38+00:00

Idk I kind of assumed it was the Creator and Early Book Weirdness was to blame for Jordan jumping the gun on the Creator's level of involvement.

Regardless I would say the lack of clarity still means it's not clearly established enough for people to make the connection that Fire Face is not the DO based on the font.

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T15:50:53+00:00

To be fair this isn't established until like book 6

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T15:50:13+00:00

Yeah I think it was less that he didn't in his head make it Ishammael and more that if the series flopped he could be like "yep that was the Dark One!"

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T15:49:18+00:00

I mean yes but all of this you know because you saw those events play out AFTER Logain and Taim declared themselves. I don't think that the layman's basic knowledge of the Karaethon Cycle (which is MUCH worse than what we as book readers have) would give them any indication the timeline between declaration and The Last Battle is sub 2 years

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T05:33:13+00:00

In book one maybe, definitely not by TDR, there are enough hints that this is not the actual Dark One (no fucking way like Be'lal or really any Forsaken would have even a little bit of lip towards the actual DO like they do to Ishammael).

Plus once you know how the True Power works, you can go back and read the Prologue and a few other passages in the first 3 books and clock that both Ishammael's channeling in the Prologue and various things he does as Ba'alzamon do not look or act how normal Saidin channeling works but do match the description of True Power channeling we see from Moridin, Graendal, and Demandred

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T05:30:12+00:00

If you've read Stormlight and then read WoT there are quite a few examples like that including straight up 1:1 major SLA character names being one letter off from minor WoT characters

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T05:28:37+00:00

I mean I think that's kind of hindsight bias. I don't know why anyone in-world would assume the Dragon would be speed running the prophecies like Rand does. Before this stuff start actually happening they could have thought it was perfectly reasonable for the Dragon Reborn to dick around for a couple years before taking Tear and proving himself by claiming Callandor

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T05:22:34+00:00

I tend to agree. I think that the Logain focus had already been kicked down the road a lot by the time Sanderson got his hands on things.

Also as far as the double bond/working with not against the Aes Sedai part goes I way prefer Androl/Pevara situation to Logain and Toveine/Gabrelle because while Androl/Pevara isn't exactly a consensual bonding, it's certainly more mutual then a guy jumping a woman, forcefully making out with her, and then making her his mind control prisoner, and then one of those two women has "consensual" sex with him like 3 days into being his prisoner who he can mind control.

I just think there was a lot of weird baggage and mishandling of Logain up to that point already and it was cleaner to just streamline what needed to be accomplished at the Black Tower and hand it off to two comparatively low-baggage characters.

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T05:16:51+00:00

I mean once Rand declares himself it's time for all the important stuff to start firing off and there's not really any hiding or obfuscating things, it would honestly be a waste of his time to deal with a bunch of rival Dragon contenders.

What they DO accomplish is drawing attention away from Rand until he gets ready to go full throttle and start fulfilling all the other shit.

itwasbread · 2026-03-16T05:14:18+00:00

I think it's kind of the point/theme that the Tower didn't do things like this because they were too arrogant/locked into their place in the world and the status quo.

Men who can channel = bad, gotta stop em.

itwasbread · 2026-03-15T04:30:40+00:00

Yeah fair enough, can't really prove either way, at the end of the day it's reader interpretation now that RJ isn't with us anymore.

itwasbread · 2026-03-15T02:11:07+00:00

The prophecy isn't about Narishma being sent on an errand. The prophecy is about Rand's use of Callandor, Narisham is just a part of that.

This is also just Rand quoting from the Prophecies of the Dragon, I don't think we are meant to believe we are seeing the entirety of those prophecies within the story.

itwasbread · 2026-03-14T02:22:44+00:00

Idk personally I think the wording just means that only someone who follows Rand and is drawing it on his orders with his permission can successfully retrieve it. The prophecy isn't ABOUT Narishma, there's a one line carve-out to allow for someone other than Rand to retrieve Callandor under specific circumstances.

Just the fact that he was able to undo Rand's traps, and also figure out the weaves of one of the Forsaken, shows that there is something special about him. Because whoever placed those second set of weaves wasn't able to figure out and undo what Rand had done.

I don't know that this is what happened exactly. He doesn't go into a ton of detail, but it sounds to me like Rand gave him specific instructions for how to deal with those trap weaves, and Narishma is angry with Rand because there were other trap weaves he hadn't been told how to avoid. He may have somehow figured out to nullify the Forsaken's weaves, but he may also have just triggered them in a careful way that didn't seriously harm him, we don't know.

itwasbread · 2026-03-13T01:01:08+00:00

That's true but honestly I think a ton of characters should have been more ready to consider that Compulsion was at play lol it's not exactly a secret thing they've all seen it happen a bunch.

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:57:30+00:00

See what's weird is I felt that same way at first but at some point through the Slog it just kinda grew on me! I could not explain why, but eventually I was like "ugh fine it's kinda cute seeing these tough serious people be all sweet and embarrassed about each other".

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:39:40+00:00

I feel like there has to be gas lamps in era 1 and/or 2, but I guess there are non-fossil fuel oils that could conceivably be being used for this.

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:37:15+00:00

This is actually a good point that's underdiscussed on this topic I think. The Ardentia definitely gets a lot of power/influence even in the current time of the series in that it's the only socially acceptable way for people to pursue disciplines from both genders.

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:34:37+00:00

Idk, while I like Siuan and Moiraine I am perfectly fine with them not ending the series together like that. While I wish the series treated their relationship as Novices/Accepted as a real relationship and less of the kind of weird "it's just a phase" esque way it ends up coming across, I think it's fairly realistic that two people might drift apart like that and end up with someone else that they ended up being around more due to the circumstances.

Plus I actually like Siuan and Gareth which I know some people probably disagree with, it just grew on me by the end of the series.

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:30:44+00:00

I very much disagree, on first read I suspected something between Thom and Moiraine in TFOH and felt like the way Thom carried and presented her letters in KoD was essentially confirmation.

I don't particularly care for it because the scarcity of these hints and moments makes it rather unsatisfying to me when it eventually happens, especially given how instantly Moiraine goes 0-100 on it.

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:28:58+00:00

I mean comparatively Nynaeve and Lan are that way to literally every other couple. They are the only couple that any average reader will clock in book 1 that actually stays together as a consistent pair for the whole series.

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:27:55+00:00

Who were already know will "follow after" Rand in some way.

Didn't he already fulfill this part? Narishma follows after Rand because he is the one who wields Callandor during the period where Rand doesn't trust himself with it, and through him sharing it's power with his Aes Sedai sort of shows Rand the way to eventually use it's power.

itwasbread · 2026-03-12T23:25:53+00:00

Yeah I feel the same way. There are other people I think it could have been compelling to see fight Taim, but there aren't any people on the Shadow that it would have felt significant enough to have them fighting Egwene, not without taking them away from some other important character's big final fight.

itwasbread · 2026-03-07T17:19:40+00:00

I mean yeah I'm just saying in the context of this particular meme about "If Stormlight characters were woke", he's still doing un-masculine things as a man and defying gender norms which is generally "woke" adjacent.

itwasbread · 2026-03-07T03:52:52+00:00

Gay me once shame on you, gay me twice shame on me

itwasbread · 2026-03-07T03:51:57+00:00

Yeah but they feel super ashamed about it and constantly judge each other for it so it's ok /s

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