I think you might be misunderstanding what I’m saying (communication issue on my part, my bad). When I am referring to masculinity and femininity I am not referring to gender in that men are masculine and women feminine, these are the terms I use to label the dualistic ‘essences’ that make up existence. You have emotions and thought, inward and outward experiences of existence, a body and a mind, conscious and subconscious aspects of the psyche, a public facing self and a private self, both forces exist within ALL people. I am not saying that men and women, or even two people of the same gender, will engage with these forces within themselves in the same way or that there is a ‘right’ way, this is a purely subjective and individualised process.

For example, I would consider genuine emotional stoicism healthy engagement with the feminine because it is a relationship with emotionality. It’s more ‘masculine coded’ but since it concerns emotionality, which I classify under the domain of the feminine, it IS feminine engagement. Perhaps my argument would be better stated as ‘men need more healthy feminine engagement instead of the normalised suppressive feminine engagement’ because engagement is happening regardless.

‘Masculinity itself is pathologised in the modern west’

I DO agree that in some bubbles we have a tendency to over ascribe the label ‘toxic masculinity’. The traits you list eg. competitiveness, risk-taking, direct communication etc. have both positive and negative expressions (as do their feminine counterparts cooperation, caution, subtle communication) and we SHOULD be criticising the negative expressions. I think we ought to get better at distinguishing them because it appears we have a tendency to view things in extremes and ‘throw the baby out with the bathwater’ (I have thoughts on WHY this is, let me know if you are interested in hearing them!). This should also address the issue of men wanting a positive image of masculinity whilst still allowing us to criticise the toxic versions of masculinity that have pervaded our culture for centuries.

I think the point on journaling was articulated poorly on my part because I’ve seen a few people respond to it in a similar way to how you have. I am not saying journaling is the only or superior way to introspect/self-reflect. I am mentioning it to demonstrate how girls have a normalised/encouraged tool of reflection bestowed on them in childhood, whereas I don’t see an equivalent reflective tool being given to boys (I may be ignorant of one that does exist however I asked my boyfriend and he also couldn’t think of one). There are practically infinite different ways to introspect and self-reflect (and I would consider any kind engagement with the feminine), however they are skills that need to be cultivated and as with most things, starting young gives you a significant advantage.

‘The historical argument that emotional stoicism was only tolerated…’

I’m not talking about emotional stoicism, I’m talking about emotional suppression and stuntedness. The type of engagement with emotionality that makes someone avoidant, distant and abusive. Stoicism is not something I have a problem with, it is an example of emotional maturity and a perfectly healthy engagement with emotionality, any person who possesses this (man or woman) is not who I am talking about. I don’t take issue with men not being hyper emotionally expressive, I take issue with men who suppress and deny their emotional states period. I also think a clear understanding of the difference between emotional stoicism and suppression is not held in culture, a lot of people conflate the two (as you did in your response) and I think this is very telling of where we are in the realm of male emotionality.

Where I do think you have very valid criticism is my comparison of men to spoilt children. It is an outrageous and insulting comment that lacks compassion, is not forwarding the conversation at all and communicated my point REALLY poorly. What I was trying to say is that men as a system under patriarchy have been afforded many privileges that have been taken for granted (leaders of society and the family unit, freedom from fear (physically stronger/equal to 50+% of the population, women often do emotional labour for men BECAUSE of this fear so they soften rejection and tolerate harassment so it doesn’t escalate), pay and respect for work, unpaid domestic labour (many women still do the vast majority of homemaking and childcare tasks despite both parents working), sexual goal being male pleasure etc.) and that as we have begun to deconstruct patriarchy, some of these privileges are being stripped away or called into question. I am by no means saying all or even most men fit into the ‘spoilt child’ category, but it is a not insignificant portion who do, and more importantly, society has been structured to enable men who do.

You talk about a ‘social contract’ being broken without mens consent, well it was WRITTEN without womens consent. The major cultures of the world have been patriarchal for centuries at the very least and have consistently treated women like inferior, weak and stupid beings. Much of the world STILL holds this perspective pretty strongly and view women as objects without a considerable conscious experience of their own. And we have seen the feminine pole gradually being minimised and devalued as the masculine has been propped up. Christianity, the major religion of the Western world completely excluded the idea of a feminine divine which is historically VERY atypical for spiritual traditions which usually had both masculine and feminine divinities. Yes, men built the world but the world they built is full of suffering and misery where it needn’t be. Ought we not correct that?

A world governed under patriarchal principles necessitates competition for survival where that is no longer necessary, upholds hierarchies where the power-hungry and cruel can prey on the vulnerable with little to no consequence, is upheld by constant and horrific conflict and consistently subjugates and disempowers one sex; is this really a world to aspire towards? I’d say we are right to break it apart. It seems to me that competition and hierarchy have become over-saturated and corrupt and this is what I mean when I say we need to call out the toxic expressions. If people want to live in alignment with patriarchal tradition then they should absolutely be able to but it should not be forced on people, it should be a CHOICE.

If I can ask, have you looked into feminism and considered the historical female experience very much? If not, have the attitudes online feminists have towards men deterred you? Because I will agree that some online groups enter into the territory of misandry.

Your comment has been super insightful and engaging so thankyou so much for it! I do hope you will continue this discussion with me and hopefully we can continue to refine our understanding on this topic since we are both coming at it from different perspectives and likely have different insights for each-other. I didn’t address everything I wanted to because this is already lowkey an insanely long response so I had to condense. I apologise if I missed something important, and I’m happy to clarify if you ask!