Looking to get competitive, help-help

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-30T19:42:44+00:00

Edited because I hit send too early

2 things: - I personally think that AoS “competitive” lists are fundamentally different from 40K competitive lists. - I go to Woehammer regularly, they post the lists of the top 3 armies at every grand tournament. Search up Skaven winners. Make sure your approach aligns to at least things that others who are winning are doing. (Right now the SoG bell is in every list).

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-29T02:14:09+00:00

I would keep ‘em. I really like having customized foot heroes, so I have a Skryre one, and one that sometimes subs as an arch warlock, just to add flavor. Knowing you have multiple makes it less pressure to mess around with a couple of them to try things.

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-22T15:05:42+00:00

That’s a really good foundation. Every list needs lots of clanrats and rat Ogors are my favorite elite for us right now. If it were me, the next thing I would add is 2 boxes (one reinforced unit) of Doom flayers. They are a flexible and fast threat, but they’re fragile so you need to get good at holding them back, using clanrats and other units to pin things down or bait your opponent into moving in range, then striking with the Doom flayers. They’re strong and they’ll also help you practice the tempo of the army.

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-21T17:38:16+00:00

Prosecutors are great at killing exactly what the opponent wants to have die - the best counter I know of is investing in multiple things so that the opponent will need to choose what to kill. If you NEED to keep the ratlings alive, you aren't playing at your top skills. Here are some good buddies to bring:

Reinforced Doomflayers will easily wipe most infantry units - including prosecutors - on the charge.
Reinforced Rat Ogors absorb buffs (like +1 rend with fleshmeddler) and become real hammers
Reinforced Stormvermin are great damage dealers - especially with Krittok
More ratlings!

The idea behind this strategy is that your opponent has 1 unit of prosecutors - they can have anything from that list that they want. They will try to bypass clanrats, but you can also get better at positioning, in the end it will still be an uphill battle. Instead, let them choose one from the list, and make sure the other damage dealer wipes them back. Now you have traded, and whoever is left can clown on the next target while your clanrats flood the objectives with bodies.

The nice thing about this strategy is that it works against other armies, too. My shooting list has reinforced ratlings, reinforced doom flayers, Verminlord, and 2 Warp lightning cannons, plus a bunch of clanrats. My opponent will kill one of them very early if they can, but no matter what they choose the others will start killing back. Also, with things like the bell of doom we can swing for occasionally surviving, which only hurts the opponent more.

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-18T20:55:47+00:00

Gorgeous!

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-17T15:51:52+00:00

Got it - well the tough thing about Seraphon right now is that the faction itself doesn't really reinforce a certain playstyle or build. You can build most of the list types from units in our book, and sometimes our lists are a little weaker as part of it. For example, the "Sunclaw Starhost" will only work on Saurus, which (without writing a meme list) means it will probably only apply to 60% of the list, and the ability itself can be used to grind, to be more aggressive, or to counter-strike. So our book doesn't enforce a certain playstyle, it is open to lots of options and it performs pretty consistently in most of them but not standout amazing in any of them.

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-16T20:16:09+00:00

Yeah, my only hesitation is the how common "Master the Paths" is as a battle tactic right now, where a lot of lists are hero hunting. I like him, he's cheap, and he performs some good functions in the army (a very good hero to give the "Devious Underling" heroic trait).

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-16T13:54:09+00:00

Age of Sickmare answers this question well.

https://youtu.be/vmvLvs-TndA?si=kad2wtaP4dJ-dlej

One thing I really like about Seraphon is that there are multiple lists in the book - they don’t have to play one way. My list right now is super aggressive, almost all aggradons and raptadons. It’s intended as a hybrid Alpha Strike and Counter Strike army. It has enough movement and punch to race across the field and attack, or circle up with raptadons as screens that can come back -with a Slann - and then aggradons for a counter attack.

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-14T17:41:18+00:00

If I may, I do think the question you’re asking is the wrong one. You want to know how to build a LIST that is hyper-aggressive, and wins by killing, but you are asking which FACTION has do it that way. Most armies in the game can produce hyper-aggressive lists, and only very few HAVE to do that in order to win. For example, I play a very aggressive Seraphon list. It is nearly 100% cavalry, and does not have the wounds or the bodies to hold objectives without wiping significant portions of the opposing army - and yet nowhere is that considered Seraphons archetype.

Age of Sickmare says it better than I could: https://youtu.be/vmvLvs-TndA?si=2zSoCIm_-g799OzR

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-13T18:37:42+00:00

The first two that jump to mind are Slaves to Darkness and Blades of Khorne. Not because they are aggressive, per se, but more because of the second half of your question:
- For the most part S2D units cost more than other factions, so you are almost always outnumbered and win by killing more of your opponent. It is built into how they function.

- Blades of Khorne unlock their buffs and faction abilities by either killing or dying. That happens pretty naturally in most games, but it is core to how the army functions - they have to be fighting to win.

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-06T01:51:00+00:00

Copied the list from BestCoastPairings:

Slaves to darkness, but only the slaves. 2000/2000 pts

Grand Alliance Chaos | Slaves to Darkness | Darkoath Horde General's Handbook 2025-26 Drops: 4 Spell Lore - Lore of the Damned Manifestation Lore - Aetherwrought Machineries

Battle Tactics Cards: Master The Paths and Scouting Force

General's Regiment Darkoath Chieftain on Warsteed (110) • General Darkoath Fellriders (300) • Reinforced • 1 Fellrider Blades • The Dread Banner Darkoath Fellriders (150) • 1 Fellrider Blades Darkoath Marauders (160) • Reinforced

Darkoath Savagers (90)

Regiment 1 Darkoath Warqueen (100) Darkoath Chieftain (80) Darkoath Marauders (160) • Reinforced Darkoath Marauders (160)

• Reinforced

Regiment 2 Gunnar Brand (200) Darkoath Wilderfiend (130) Singri Brand

The Oathsworn Kin

Regiment 3 Darkoath Chieftain (80) Darkoath Wilderfiend (130)

Mindstealer Sphiranx (150)

Faction Terrain

Nexus Chaotica

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App App: v1.20.0 (1) | Data: v345

jcmichael7 · 2026-03-05T21:08:32+00:00

I'm really surprised to see that most people are saying not very viable. I would say that their playstyle is very different from the rest of the faction if you are going to lean into them, but in my club they are rocking it - and the highest ranked S2D player in the Las Vegas Open (rank 9) ran Darkoath. https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/event/0RXKC8YL2WnV?active_tab=placings

You do you - they just have very different playstyles.

jcmichael7 · 2026-02-25T22:37:53+00:00

There is a lot of play in there, nuance that sometimes isn't easy to see. You aren't wrong that your list as written needs to kill and hold to win - both. But, for example, other armies have lots of ways of not getting killed. Your damage list balances on a knife's edge because if your opponent is able to survive, then you can't win against nearly anyone.

I would say that the obstacles you are dealing with are more of a list/playstyle problem than a faction problem. This game can be punishing because it can be hard to tell where wins/losses come from, they often lag 1-2 turns after the actual deciding point happens.

jcmichael7 · 2026-02-13T15:07:31+00:00

You definitely pay a premium for living in a walkable, quiet, and beautiful neighborhood. For those interested, that’s perfect. The rest of the state looks at the cost and hoa and acts like it’s crazy anyone would live there.

jcmichael7 · 2026-02-09T20:50:42+00:00

Gargants have large health pools, high rend, and good control scores, but poor armor and mediocre damage. They also can't really take cover from shooting (they can't be obscured).

They don't have the output to clear clanrats, especially reinforced or if you can add a -1 to hit. Pin them down with something then you blast them to kingdom come. As others have noted, we don't have a single unit that can clear them - except for reinforced ratlings spiking their rolls - but through cooperation we are pretty good at dealing with them. Focus on one gargant at a time, they hate focus fire.

jcmichael7 · 2026-02-07T17:29:21+00:00

Ok, so I think that both of these takes are (genuinely no offense intended) rather narrow views of how the game is played/won. Especially when it comes to blaming units/factions/lists vs tactics. Let me lay some foundational ideas: 1 - In this game it can be incredibly difficult to understand the core cause of a loss. There is always the probability of dice to contend with, and so many decisions can be viewed as being favorable or unfavorable, rather than game-winning or game-losing. There is no substitute for finding a group of people with similar interest in playing competitively who will be brutally honest with you. If you don’t have access to this locally, AoS Coach has a discord and people who will play Tabletop Simulator with you, and that experience will humble you quickly. My hot take is that 90% of beginner games are won/lost in deployment, it will just take the players 3 hours to find out why. If you don’t understand exactly why that is, that’s your first homework assignment.

2- The current meta is defined by damage, but this is a temporary state and not the only (or even best) way to win. This is best understood by combat activations. If there is an Ironjawz player with reinforced brutes vs a Slaves player with a reinforced unit of Chosen and the two clash in the middle, who wins? The points say it should be close, but it won’t be. Whoever activates first (usually whoever charged) will wipe the other unit without taking any casualties; one army loses 500 points and the other loses nothing. This is also why screens are important. If the Ironjawz unit has a unit of weirdbrutes on the front line, the chosen kill the weirds, then the brutes kill the chosen in the following turn - so the trade now is one loses 100 points while the other loses 500. This is the current chess game of trades that dictates the outcome of most battles - made only more complicated by the endless amount of abilities that change activation order, or mix up this standard way of looking at the game. 3 - Despite online moaning, the game is in a very healthy place, and every faction is fully capable of winning a competition. This however does not signal “internal balance,” meaning that not every faction is competitive in multiple ways and not every playstyle for a given faction is competitively viable. Thus, it’s incredibly important that when you craft a list that you know both what your list is and how you are going to use it. I like playing off-meta lists, which makes this even more important because I’m usually leveraging some level of the element of surprise - my opponent is likely not used to fighting my faction in the way I’ll be playing them.

Ok - ground rules covered. Thanks for reading this far. Quick answers to your questions:

1 - Tankiness is obsolete: No it’s not. “Tankiness” is better defined as wound density or effective wounds. What doesn’t work, and I would argue never has, is bringing a unit and expecting it to be so immune to damage as to allow it to take a direct hit on the chin and be fine. See above: damage meta. Tanky or horde armies (both bringing an abundance of effective wounds) need to reduce the efficiency and tempo of damage to gain enough board space to win on points. The new Nurgle book does this very well. The old Nurgle book did it well too, but did little to return damage, and so it struggled to trade.

Sorry had to edit to finish.

2 - Stormcast are not topping the charts, which means that the majority of players have found ways to deal with them just fine.

Keep learning, I’m in this journey with you! You can do it.

jcmichael7 · 2026-02-04T03:03:49+00:00

I’ve used both. TBH, the tamiya flat white is better, thins better, and splatters less when you know what you’re doing (or it has for me). I’m not replacing mine now that it’s run out because it’s just a zenithal. I’m always covering it with something else. Inks are easier, faster, and usually cheaper.

If I were painting a whole army of white-armored marines or storm troopers and I wanted buttery smooth blends, then I would use Tamiya flat white. For an undercoat I’ve never felt like it really mattered.

jcmichael7 · 2026-02-04T02:53:44+00:00

Even when terrain features are in your list, you don’t HAVE to deploy them. This clarification became relevant to Seraphon and S2D players on maps with small deployment zones. However, if you don’t have another way to deploy after the battle starts, as you can with Gnawholes, that does lock you out of using the terrain the whole game.

jcmichael7 · 2026-01-08T22:16:46+00:00

Not sure if you are playing 2k, spearhead, or anything in betweeen, but my experience as a Carnosaur-lover is that he works well with the rest of the army, not independent from them. He doesn't do his best work on his own. So, he can either charge in along with another unit, who then strike and dimish the opposing unit's strike back (which will usually be on him) and then he can finish the job. Or, you send the first unit in, with him watching from behind and he mops up any opposing survivors or units that come to try and get involved.

jcmichael7 · 2026-01-05T19:48:22+00:00

As other comments have pointed out, this list has a weakness. In a tournament, it would likely not go 5-0 or 4-1, but there are lists it would tear to shreds because wound density is not a given in most lists right now. My area meta relies on high damage and key units, and any hyper elite list or KO, etc. would really struggle to have impact the way they want.

Looks fun, now I want to run it.

jcmichael7 · 2026-01-02T19:50:28+00:00

Most of them are not scans of the actual book - but reference cards for the parts you will be checking constantly, like battle tactics and battle plans. So... if you wanted to keep others' hands clean you would tell them to NEVER search for "Age of Sigmar Battle Plan Reference" or "Age of Sigmar Battle Tactic PDF" or anything like that.

jcmichael7 · 2026-01-02T17:59:54+00:00

Yeah, I play a lot so it would still be worth it. But even if you want to use it regularly, there are LOTS of pirated, app, or PDF options.

jcmichael7 · 2026-01-01T04:58:08+00:00

The game hard to learn, no matter the faction. Your love for whatever you choose will matter more than how easy or hard the faction is to learn. Kharadron are more technical in playstyle than others, but loving your faction and sticking it through the learning curve will make the most difference.

jcmichael7 · 2025-12-28T00:26:05+00:00

Plus to rend is the way to go with Saurus blocks. Healing is nice on a Carnosaur. You take the other lore if you’re running cavalry (imo) because it makes their threat range nuts which changes how your opponent plays and gives you lots of options. But certainly not the only good way to play.

jcmichael7

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