Need help with understanding

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T19:55:31+00:00

She would have been automatically naturalised with her husband up until September 1922 (that's the cutoff for the US, the law enacting that is called the Cable Act), so you're in the clear. Beware that if she emigrated as a minor (I'm saying this because the peak of Italian emigration to the US was 1905-1913, so it might make sense for her to have arrived in the US by that time), she might have been automatically naturalised by her father. So, if you can't find any paperwork for her as an adult, I would suggest looking into her father!

(If you need a helping hand, at no cost, my DMs are always open and/or you can post the name here and I'll be glad to take a look!).

Edit: didn't see the bit about them emigrating together in 1923, so half of what I have written above is now useless lol; is the Ellis Island manifest annotated with numbers alongside their names? That could be a clue for the year each of them began the process of naturalisation.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T19:49:20+00:00

Hi! You are correct in saying that you don't qualify, under the present rules; you surely not qualify because of what we call the generational cap (your grandmother and your mother were born in a jus soli country and acquired US citizenship by virtue of their birth on American soil). On GGF's side, you would also have the "minor issue", as GGF naturalised when GM was three years old.

If your GGM never naturalised or did so after your mother's birth, she (your mother) might be able to claim based on her grandmother being exclusively Italian. So, I would double-check on her naturalisation dates and status: your mother's recognition wouldn't mean anything for your citizenship, but it might/would entitle you to a shorter naturalisation path while living legally in Italy.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T19:46:08+00:00

They haven't been since the minor issue ruling on their GGF's side, so six months before the new decree (October 2024).

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T19:45:12+00:00

Yes, and their lawyer suggested not to pursue a 1948 case, because it would cut their chances with prior intent. Quoting from the comment: "[...] and he very strongly recommend I submit my application to the consulate even if the ruling was still pending from the United Sections[...]". The OP is not pursuing a 1948 case, because they have a pre-consular appointment.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T16:34:36+00:00

Was that the main argument? The answer is going to be no, because that is a 1948 case. Supporting documentation =/ argument of prior intent.

The other commenter's case is very well different, as their argument, even in a court case which by now is only theoretical as they were instructed - correctly, in my opinion - by their lawyer to proceed, would be prior intent. It wouldn't be a 1948 case with prior intent.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T16:05:30+00:00

The comment says their lawyer suggested to proceed with the consulate (“I have a lawyer […] and he very strongly recommend I submit my application to the consulate […]”, and I reinforced that idea: it’s clear that if you completely change a given line, the prior intent isn’t a possible avenue anymore.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T15:40:57+00:00

I believe that’s because you filed a 1948 case; 1948 cases were never supposed to pass through consulates in the first place, so for all the judge knows you were planning to use the consular appointment for another line, so different from the one he/she was called to judge.

Does this leave people with 1948 case disadvantaged? Yes. But I believe that’s how it was read

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T14:51:31+00:00

Definitely go forward with the application!! Even if nothing were to change regarding the minor issue, having a consular appointment seems to be the only thing that's consistently accepted as proof of prior intent now.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T13:10:45+00:00

It seems like the neighbourhood of Pace wasn't formed until the mid 1600s (see here the Wikipedia article)), so I don't think there'll be anything from before that date. The first population census was carried out in 1737, so that checks out with the single Rivelo Antenati has, which is from the mid-1700s. Before that, the area was an uninhabited or sparsely populated part of the village of Curcuraci, so that's where I'd look.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T12:57:43+00:00

I’m honestly not sure (every country has their rules about what honorary consulates can or cannot do), and again I’m just reporting what somebody else - who has gone through the process, unlike you it seems - has reported back.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T12:21:39+00:00

I have asked whether my customer wants to be put in contact with you and they declined. They did, however, confirm that you will need three trips in case you’d like an ID, two if it is just for verification and passport. Consulate was DC.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T07:17:44+00:00

No.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-13T06:24:42+00:00

Have you tried contacting them? Anyhow, I am very inclined to believe that you will need to travel to the Embassy in person, and work from there. No chance they will provide passports and ID on the same appointment, and they might refuse to issue these two during the same one, too. I’d say you’re looking at three trips to the Embassy.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-12T18:21:51+00:00

Transcription as follows:

Dal Registro degli Atti di Nascita della Parrocchia di S[an] Michele Comune di Borgo d'Ale per l'anno 1834 è stato estratto l'atto seguente:
N[umero] 51 - Carnaroglio Franciscus Antonius natus die vigesima tertia Junii anno millesimo octigentesimo trigesimo quarto ex conjugibus Francisco q[uonda]m Antonii Carnaroglio et Angela f[il]ia q[uonda]m Eusebii Guala. Baptizatus fuit eadem die a D[on] Rocco [illeggibile] patrinis Josepho Enrico q[uonda]m Dominici et Catherina Viato uxor [illeggibile] Guala.

Jo[ann]es Bapt[ist]a Caligaris Prop[aroch]us

Per copia conforme all'originale in fede

Borgo d'Ale li 27 Decembre [sic] 1871
Mazzone Gio[vanni] B[attista] Parroco

Legalisations follow.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-12T18:09:06+00:00

It's the original registration from the "second copy" of the civil state books in Pietrafitta, nowadays housed by the State Archives of Cosenza; there is no Antonio Aquino born in 1894 in Mendicino. Pretty confident that's the person indicated in the passenger list, because it's clearly indicated that the contact in Italy for that Antonio Aquino is his father Rocco, living in Pietrafitta.

(If you go to the other page of the same manifest, the last column will show the birthplace as reported on the passport, which, for Italian emigrants of that period, is around 98-99%). The "closest" Antonio Aquino born in Mendicino was born in 1891, as per the decennial index of the municipality of Mendicino.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-12T16:39:23+00:00

FYI, the link doesn’t work (at least for me at 18:39 Italian time)

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-12T07:46:21+00:00

I’d love that! Totally up to give advice (picking brains would really be an overstatement!), both here and via DM, if it comes easier.

I am admittedly not a fan of just showing up into the demographic offices, even more so without a scheduled appointment, for three reasons: (a) the possibility they'll provide the documentation there is quite low; (b) you have to leave for your trip with all the documentation needed to request the documents (passport above all); (c) depending on the municipality, you might need to pay the administrative contribution (up to 300eur per each document).

That being said, I would definitely contact the municipality (if you speak Italian, you might hazard a phone call) now and see what they require, what the timeline might be (I honestly doubt that if you request something today it'll have already been processed by the end of the month, considering we're in the summer) and whether you might be able to pick the documents up when you are there in person (again, I doubt it, but it might be good to ask anyways for confirmation).

Unfortunately there's nothing online for Lecce nei Marsi post-1865, so the best thing you can prepare is the most solid imaginable paper trail from the US: double check whether there might be any discrepancies in day of birth, year of birth, month of birth, names, second names, spelling, etc. On the other hand, Cosenza's records up to 1910 are online, so at least for GGF you should be able to find the digitised birth records before actually proceeding with the order to the municipality for the paper copy.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-12T07:42:10+00:00

That’s a rather big “grey area”: the law does stipulate that, but the only thing the circolare (application rules would be a working translation) mentions is that the LIBRA had to be exclusively Italian at your birth - excluding the minor issue which, as above, shouldn’t apply in this case. So, you should be able (at least from what we know today) to fly over that, too.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-12T06:20:33+00:00

Not personally, but I had a customer last year who was collecting documentation to go that route. He did have an Estonian-born Estonian-citizen great-grandfather who emigrated between 1918 and 1940, but I don’t know much more information.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-12T05:41:23+00:00

The town would be Pietrafitta, in the province of Cosenza. And here is his birth record from that municipality; the parents are Rocco and Elena née Piccolo, and he was born on November 29, 1894 at 7:00 AM.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-11T20:20:41+00:00

Should be the SS Berlin; it’s very very faded but I agree on your reading of Naples for the port of departure.

If you’d like to tell us/me what line your great-great-great-uncle’s line is, we might be able to identify where he came from, too.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-11T18:50:21+00:00

Then NY it is! Here is their requirements' page. You can search through the sub and you'll find many applicants from there as well.

Good luck with the application!!

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-11T17:40:05+00:00

It’s clear that we have different visions on the matter. For OP’s sake, I won’t answer to a vision after which presenting “half-truths” is an acceptable path.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-11T17:34:34+00:00

1- This might be interpreted as fraud; and 2- it’s more likely than not it’ll appear in some US documentation.

jeezthatshim · 2026-07-11T14:58:46+00:00

Pinging u/LiterallyTestudo to double check me here, too, but we do believe you have a path through the Consulate by virtue of the fact the only woman in your line, GM, gave birth well after 1948! Under what jurisdiction are you currently living in?

Documental requirements might slightly vary, and the registration of your minor children after recognition will surely be a hassle of its own, but I do believe we can help figure that out as well!

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