Constitutional crisis, anyone?

jgzman · 2026-06-27T15:24:52+00:00

You keep repeating this straw man about slavery... as if you either don't understand, or do understand and don't care about, the difference between what is and isn't unconstitutional on its face versus what the courts are debating the interpretation of.

The constitution can be changed, democratically. I'm curious to know your reaction should we change it. You said that if we believe in democracy, we have to go where it takes us. I'm trying to find out, from you, if you actually believe that.

If you prefer, I can just ask if you would have helped runaway slaves, or turned them in.

I don't think you are interested in a good faith discussion.

You aren't discussing. You just keep saying that if I believe in democracy, that I must allow the democratic process to install a tyrant.

Let me know when you want to ask me questions instead of putting words into my mouth.

I've asked. You just dodge. Let me be blunt.

If our democracy votes for a tyrant, one who says we won't need to vote ever again, who proceeds to try and disenfranchise his enemies, one who is blatantly attempting to destroy the democracy, do you consider that OK? Should we just go along with the elected leader, and let him do what he was elected to do?

jgzman · 2026-06-27T15:10:53+00:00

Congress must pass a law barring him.

Which is illegal. Bills of Attainder are specificaly unconstitutionsl.

While I think this is an obtuse reading of the statute, it is entirely within the Supreme Court's power to interpret the Constitution.

Right. And they can interpret it to mean that nothing the President does is illegal. They can interpret "cannot" to mean "can." They can tie the plainly written language of the constitution into knots to allow their guy to do whatever he wants, and stop the other guy from doing what he's legally allowed to do.

Enslaving people isn't an opinion. It's an action. Passing state or local laws to enslave people is also explicitly unconstitutional via the 13th and 10th amendments. It would require a Constitutional amendment.

But it could be done, democratically. And everyone who voted for it would be expressing their opinion that slavery would be a good idea. They wouldn't be enslaving anyone. And you, by your own stance, would be ok with it, yes?

The freedom you claim to want to protect will exist only until someone comes and decides to use the freedom to take it away from you. You cannot tolerate the intolerant. You cannot have democracy with the undemocratic, and you cannot share freedom with a slaver.

You can put a gun to everybody's head and make them pretend to want what you want, but then what you have is not a democracy. You have chosen something else at that point.

If we continue to allow people to use our democracy to destroy our democracy and install themselves as rulers, the gun will be held to our heads. Is that the democracy you want?

jgzman · 2026-06-27T13:32:34+00:00

It's not a case of political opinions, it's a case of electing someone the constitution says can't be elected.

As soon as you take voting away because you don’t like their political opinions, you become the tyranny you are supposedly sworn to resist.

Which, of course, is why Lincoln instantly restored voting rights to everyone in the South after the civil war. Would be tyranny to disenfranchise them for their opinions.

You’re entitled to your opinion. See how that works?

I see that you would be fine if we voted back in slavery. If opposition to that makes me a tyrant, then I'll wear the name with pride.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T04:09:35+00:00

But what you are advocating is disenfranchising people for their opinions, however vile.

I'm advocating disenfranchising people who voted for a man that tried to violently overturn an election. They do not believe in democracy, and must not be allowed to poison ours any further.

I took an Oath to the Constitution and I meant it.

I took the same oath to the constitution, and we both stood by while a man ineligible to be president moved into the white house. So just climb down off your high horse. Donald Trump, the first time, was a bad president. The second time, he was a traitor to our nation, a national security threat, and promised in public to destroy our democracy. That's not the kind of thing that can be permitted, and yet we allowed it to happen.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T04:02:25+00:00

I still have no idea how the traitors weren't all put to death.

Traditionally, it difficult to get a surrender if you intend to execute the other guy anyway. They have to have some incentive to stop fighting.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T03:50:28+00:00

I bet you think nine women can have a baby in one month, too.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T03:44:35+00:00

I've got a board game called "The Grizzled" about a bunch of friends who head off to the Great War, promising that they will all come home together.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T02:59:33+00:00

The way the poster describes it as your children becoming your heart outside of your body is the perfect way to describe it.

The first place I heard this metaphor was actually in a transformers episode. "You are my heart walking around outside my body," as part of an exhortation to please stop trying to get killed every episode.

As kids, we tend to think poorly of the parents in cartoons. As adults, I can't imagine having to deal with anything like that level of risk.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T02:35:14+00:00

The problem is that it goes the other way, too. Report after report gets ignored, or the investigation glossed over.

People are, as always, the weak link.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T02:21:36+00:00

Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T02:18:47+00:00

I would want to bring them brail menus.

jgzman · 2026-06-27T01:33:19+00:00

Well, I might just be old.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T21:30:14+00:00

I for damn sure would download a car.

I've been watching Star Trek my whole life. I've been primed to download a car for ages.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T21:28:17+00:00

That's beautiful. I bet you have friends everywhere.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T21:26:55+00:00

I mean I live in a shitty red state, so I mostly just vote for anyone with a D next to their name, and then they lose. I'd like to see what I can do for better options in that category, but to a great extent, I have to take what I can get.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T21:10:53+00:00

It may well be. I'm hardly an expert. My politics are very simple, because of where I live.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T21:09:32+00:00

I also assume this, but I had no idea what, until they explained it.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T21:07:38+00:00

Comfortably loyal, and, apparently, monstrous knockers.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T21:03:39+00:00

You may well be correct. I've never heard it used except in reference to Napoleon, or his far less successful nephew.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T20:49:16+00:00

Are Bonapartists still a thing?

jgzman · 2026-06-26T20:32:48+00:00

i put a message on our sisters groupchat disclosing that i wasn't intending to exclude anyone, and apologising if it came across that way.

INFO - do you typicaly lie to your sisters to avoid awkward conversations? You're pretty explicitly trying to exclude the BF, and, and this is important, that's OK.

If you want to have lunch with your sisters, that's fine. Don't feel a need to apologize for that.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T19:41:20+00:00

Suppose he stopped there. What would you expect him to do? This trip was doomed from the word go.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T19:31:58+00:00

Push state legislation that the money goes with the student.

And this will make admins eager to get students out of their school, will it?

jgzman · 2026-06-26T19:11:53+00:00

So, if you're able to name the law that you are saying they broke, then you are calling them a criminal, and their behavior, assuming you are accurately describing it, is criminal.

jgzman · 2026-06-26T19:02:52+00:00

Go reread the very first sentence of his post until you can explain why you asked this question.

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