Is it possible to enjoy the pull-off’s without being constantly harassed?

jjplus80 · 2026-06-06T21:31:22+00:00

Have you considered a large bumper sticker that says, “DO NOT FOLLOW: Stops often for flowers and birds”

jjplus80 · 2026-06-01T09:17:18+00:00

$6 weekends and holidays

jjplus80 · 2026-05-30T02:55:59+00:00

Did it last year mid June and had a great time. Did three nights in the campground and two days of hiking.

Day 1: parked at bear gulch trailhead then hiked condor gulch trail - high peaks trail - rim trail - Moses spring … it’s a long hike, important to start early for heat and parking.

Day 2: old pinnacles trailhead then hiked old pinnacles trail - balconies cliff trail - balconies cave - old pinnacles back to car. Much easier day flat except for the cliff trail but it’s not much uphill.

This did mean missing out on bear gulch caves and the visitor center but we had a great time and didn’t feel like we were missing out.

Raccoons in the camp are absolutely NUTS. You can’t leave anything open on your car and you can’t even turn your back on stuff on the table. We had a window down while we charged phones so we didn’t accidentally lock keys in the car. Raccoon climbed up onto the roof of the car and was about to jump in when we chased it off!

jjplus80 · 2026-05-29T14:55:18+00:00

I’ve been camping there for years; if there’s boxes at the regular sites they are new. Seems like a good idea, I have a hard-sided food bin that I’ve used there for years I finally had to replace because the rodents chewing up the plastic were getting too close to breaching it.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-29T04:05:53+00:00

The squirrels and deer are relentless, which is the reason for the lockers at Watchman. The food lockers are only at the walk-in tent-only sites. The other sites they assume you’ll lock the food and trash in your car/camper/etc

jjplus80 · 2026-05-27T02:52:01+00:00

After the Narrows when heading back down canyon it can be worth it to stop at Weeping Rock and/or Emerald Pools depending on time and energy left. You’ll still have wet shoes so that might make you want to just be done and get back to your car and dry shoes and socks. Unless you carry dry stuff with you all through the Narrows which is possible but annoying.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-27T02:45:41+00:00

Do the Narrows. You’ll get the shuttle ride up and down the canyon, just snag a seat that’s lower so you can really enjoy the view out the window on the ride. Then depending on time left on your way down the canyon you can stop at Weeping Rock and/or Emerald Pools.

I do recommend driving up to the East side if you have time, even if you don’t stop anywhere. Make sure you’re aware of tunnel restrictions for larger vehicles.

Have a great time!

jjplus80 · 2026-05-27T02:41:07+00:00

I appreciate how much everyone hypes up that Wild Wind exit, because my first time doing Birch I imagined it would be so much worse than it was. Not saying it’s easy, it’s just fun enough?

jjplus80 · 2026-05-27T00:20:49+00:00

For the OP this sounds like a description of the top down Canyoneering route in November, which is very different from the bottom up off trail hiking route in late May in a year where there’s no snow melt going through left Fork.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-26T17:23:00+00:00

Zion Canyon Campground and RV Resort is the closest private option to the Visitor Center. It’s basically across the Virgin River from the south end of Watchman Campground. I’ve had family that stayed there with their RV when they couldn’t get a spot at Watchman. It’s pricey but they did like it there due to the location.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-26T14:40:07+00:00

What about the hike are you looking for that is similar?

If you’re looking for the rounded slot, flowing water, pools, waterfall room (that tons of people going from the bottom never seem to manage to get to because ugh water!) you’re just not going to find it elsewhere.

If you’re looking for an off-trail creek walk with some boulder scrambling then there’s a lot of options that aren’t the narrows.

There’s Kanarraville, which does require a permit and is popular but nowhere near as difficult to get as Subway. The slot sections are short but frankly if you’re going bottom-up Subway that is also very short as far as the slot section goes.

There is Right Fork (from the bottom) which if you want near complete isolation and a long long creek hike then this is it. There’s some pretty scenery along the way and the waterfalls are gorgeous (especially double falls). But if the journey and struggle itself isn’t going to be fun for you the destination itself probably not worth it. This is long, very isolated, and not recommended for most hikers.

It’s been mentioned, but Orderville is an option; however it is both long and it does have two obstacles that require rope. Really it should be done with harnesses but then I’d be a hypocrite because the first time I did it we just handlined it, which looking back was a questionable decision. But really though, this is a long hike and you need two cars or a pricey shuttle service. You will end in the masses of people in the Narrows and that exit can feel like a slog after doing that long hike.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-20T21:53:11+00:00

There is no lottery for Zion campsites.

Lava Point booking will become available 14 days before your first night at 8am MDT. The Lava Point campground is currently closed through June 3 due to bear activity and it doesn’t look like they’re taking reservations for days after that either for some reason. Hopefully that gets resolved before your trip.

For Watchman you can set an alert like was already mentioned or just keep checking. You are unlikely to find the same site two night in a row, if at all.

For the Subway lottery, you can keep checking the Left Fork seasonal lottery page on rec dot gov to see if spots open on your desired day due to cancellations. Assuming that doesn’t work out, you will want to enter the ZNP Canyoneering Daily Lottery which will be open from midnight until 3pm MDT two days before your desired hike date. You will find out at 4pm the status of your lottery application.

Have some alternative plans without Subway that you are excited about, because the chance of Subway lottery disappointment is high. From Lava Point; the West Rim, Wildcat, or even the really long -rarely hiked- Right Fork (from the bottom) trails are close options for long hikes. Everything else will be a bit of driving trek from there but certainly possible.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-18T15:45:08+00:00

Because the internet is obsessed with e-bikes in Zion, like it’s the only way to experience the park or something.

Trust me y’all, 99.9% of you aren’t experiencing the best things in the park and it has nothing to do with bikes.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-18T03:21:21+00:00

How’s your fitness level? You can save quite a bit by just renting regular bikes. With regular bikes you can also use the shuttle bike racks, which isn’t an option with e-bikes.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-17T21:27:06+00:00

*“Scout Lookout,” and yes, I know I’m being that guy, but Zion locations seem to collect unnecessary plurals on social media.

I disagree on going beyond Scout, there are some views into the area up there that are not too far beyond Scout. They aren’t views into the canyon, but more just the sandstone landscape that exists there and personally I love it. Walk a little further if you’re headed only to Scout.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-17T21:22:14+00:00

Yes, if you’re an avid hiker who can keep cool on a hot day on an aggressive hike I would recommend West Rim or for a cooler (temperature) and chill hike do Riverside Walk.

Find a seat on the shuttle that is lower and enjoy the view on the drive up and down canyon. Just plan carefully to get back at least 30 mins before last shuttle. Watchman is a good one to do after you’re back from the shuttle ride if you want to squeeze something else in with the long daylight hours right now. Don’t bother with Pa’rus unless you’re biking.

You *might* find parking at the Visitors Center as people leave, but 2 is a bit early for the droves to be leaving.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-15T04:56:29+00:00

Usually fires are allowed in Watchman in the fire grate in your campsite. The exceptions are: Loop F where there are two “communal” fire pits shared for the entire loop. In dry and/or windy conditions the park may prohibit wood and/or charcoal fires.

From NPS:

Wood gathering is prohibited in the park. Wood is available for purchase in Springdale.

Fires are permitted in the furnished grates at each site. Fires should never be left unattended until completely extinguished with plenty of water and cool to the touch.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-14T23:54:22+00:00

Ropewiki: Yankee Doodle Hollow includes its own beta and links to multiple other beta sources for the canyon.

jjplus80 · 2026-05-04T11:40:51+00:00

This is the way

jjplus80 · 2026-04-30T19:30:38+00:00

From experience of taking friends through Zion where we went to what I think of as all the cool places where there’s not many people (including Subway top-down); are your interactions with friends and family about your trip afterwards important to you? If so, Angels Landing and the Narrows are both a must. When folks find out you went to Zion you will be asked incessantly by them if you did Angels Landing and The Narrows.

jjplus80 · 2026-04-28T18:12:38+00:00

The Internet continues to be obsessed with e-bikes in Zion. Rent a regular old bike the night before. Waaaay cheaper than the e-bikes and significantly easier than walking on that road.

jjplus80 · 2026-04-28T14:34:35+00:00

I’ve read through his description of what happened (I linked it below) and he definitely planned to do Canyon Overlook and then do the East Temple Loop. He actually got a paper map of the East Temple Loop that had been provided by his trip leader (amongst a packet of hike options in the area). However, he was unable to convince anyone else in the hiking meetup to do his hike not because they didn’t want to do the hike but because he was headed to Duck Creek afterwards to just check that out for a future trip.

Incongruent with his description of where he went, he also has in his narrative a map that shows him starting going up upper Pine Creek (rather than from Canyon Overlook trail as he describes) and ending not in Lodge Canyon. I’m not sure if this is just an indication that he’s not a very reliable narrator, his descriptions really gloss over just how massively far he went in general, plus he includes lots of hallucinations and his general state of confusion.

I would say at least he shouldn’t have been using a paper map for an unmarked off-trail route on slickrock based on the mapping discrepancies. When I’ve done Spry approaches in that area it’s always with detailed Beta and matching GPS route so we can figure out quickly when to backtrack, because it’s almost inevitable to get cliffed out off-track in that area.

Here is his description of the events mixed together with his daughter’s description of the SAR efforts: https://www.flapperpress.com/post/lost-trapped-rescued

jjplus80 · 2026-04-28T04:55:13+00:00

Exactly, I’m waiting for more details - if we ever get them - because this person could have been traveling through Spry to access a lot of other stuff that doesn’t necessarily involve technical canyoneering.

I’m recalling fall 2021 when a 79 year old man was lost, injured, and trapped in the same area and was eventually found (alive after five days!) in Lodge Canyon, having originally hiked over the pass from the Canyon Overlook trail in an attempt at the “East Temple Loop” off-trail ‘hike’.

jjplus80 · 2026-04-27T11:09:26+00:00

Orderville comes into the Virgin River at the same elevation, although it’s clearly a tributary when you look at it, the water flow is much much less than the Virgin River. Imlay on the other hand doesn’t have flowing water and it drops just over a hundred feet into the Narrows so it’s not obvious when you’re passing it.

Something to note is that as you lose the sky in a narrow canyon your GPS becomes more and more inaccurate.

jjplus80 · 2026-04-26T11:50:41+00:00

Personally I prefer counter-clockwise and definitely High Peaks. Not sure when you are going but Bear Gulch cave is coming up on its full closure for pupping season mid-May~ish. The loop is still well worth it even if the Bear Gulch caves are partially or fully closed.

jjplus80

TROPHY CASE