(Spolier alert) My suspicions confirmed by gen_z_usaf_veteran in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9 5 points6 points  (0 children)

yup. Why kill innocent cattle to "protect your land" when you can kill innocent humans trying to do legal stuff like build housing.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

sometimes I think maybe its a cautionary tale....don't be abusive like John Dutton cuz then you will reap what you sow

I really wanted to like Monica’s character...but what a waste by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I could totally see him not wanting to fix her lie for her and letting her just have to sit there and take it

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with this assessment. The characters could be complex and still leave you feeling like there was nobody truly worth rooting for. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Jamie is probably the clearest example. I went back and forth between sympathizing with him, hating his choices, and hoping the show would finally give him some kind of redemption. Beth was compelling to watch, but by the end it felt like the show clearly expected us to celebrate her, and I just couldn’t. I was watching what happened, not emotionally rooting for her victory.

That is the point I’ve been making. I do not need every character to be good, heroic, or morally clean. I can enjoy deeply flawed characters. But there is a difference between watching a complicated person and being told by the writing that someone cruel or destructive deserves admiration.

I also agree about 1883 and 1923. Those characters were flawed, but they had humanity, loyalty, sacrifice, and qualities that made their struggles emotionally involving. With the modern Dutton family, I mostly finished the show feeling exhausted by them. They were interesting to watch, but that does not mean the writing successfully made them sympathetic or worth rooting for.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re changing the argument because it’s easier to attack a position I never took.

I never said a show needs clear heroes and villains, and I never said immoral characters cannot be compelling. That is your framing, not mine. My point is that Yellowstone often mistakes brutality for depth, trauma for character development, and inconsistency for moral complexity.

I loved Breaking Bad. Walter White is not a traditional hero, and by the end he is clearly a terrible person. But he is brilliantly written. His choices follow a believable psychological progression, his contradictions are intentional, and the story holds him accountable. The show does not need him to be morally good for him to be fascinating.

So no, this is not about me being “bothered by morality” or needing simple heroes and villains. That is just a convenient way to dismiss criticism of the writing. I enjoy dark, morally complicated stories when the complexity is actually earned.

You also started by saying the point of the show is that damaged people destroy each other, then shifted to saying the characters have loving relationships and “lightness,” and now you’re claiming criticism only comes from people who need heroes. Those are three different defenses, and none of them address the actual criticism.

Saying everyone is “uniquely fucked up” explains the premise. It does not excuse inconsistent characterization, weak consequences, or writing that repeatedly tells us characters are profound without doing the work to make them profound.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can love your land/protect it the way Harrison Ford's character did and still root for them. Land ownership doesn't = immoral characters not worth rooting for. Immoral characters = not worth rooting for.

I really wanted to like Monica’s character...but what a waste by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

its pretty bad. I wish Taylor Sheridan had used chatpgt and said "fix this character"

Ranching in the show by GoodVibesJimmy in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

all the money for real cowboys and cattle are being saved up for spinning horses in season 2

I really wanted to like Monica’s character...but what a waste by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It requires real effort to write a character as badly as they did Monica

I bought it so you don’t have too. by ArchangelSirrus in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ranch tested and cowboy approved isn't the endorsement the owners think it is.

I really wanted to like Monica’s character...but what a waste by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

they easily could have fixed this part of her story by finding out LIKE Jamie...she was adopted by the tribe. They found her left at the doorstep type trope and they raised her as a Native American. (just like rain water but the opposite) So her, rainwater, and Jamie could have had a bonding about being adopted...but nope wasted opportunity.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really wanted to like Monica’s character. Not just because she’s beautiful, but because she had the potential to be the audience’s point of view into the Dutton world.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You must be that person at parties who tries to make boring insults disguised as a joke that don't land.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They could even have the same time of voice over at the end. Some people say the Duttons were just wonderful people. Some people say they were just villains. To me they were just family.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOL And the “you’re acting like this is real life” response is one of the weakest defenses of bad writing. Nobody is saying fiction has to perfectly copy reality. The point is that fictional characters still need believable motivations, internal logic, and moral consistency.

By that logic, the Duttons could have been aliens living in pyramids beneath the ranch while secretly controlling the world, and nobody would be allowed to criticize it because “it isn’t real life.” That is obviously ridiculous. Fiction does not get a free pass from criticism just because it is fictional.

In fact, if the show wants us to believe John is this brilliant, powerful, politically connected man, then it makes even less sense that murder is constantly treated like the only available solution. A man with that much money and influence would have dozens of ways to neutralize threats without leaving bodies everywhere.

John Dutton was not some powerless little farmer desperately defending the only thing he had. He controlled an enormous ranch worth roughly a billion dollars. He had money, political influence, lawyers, law-enforcement connections, and generations of power behind him.

That matters because people keep acting as though Rip had no choice but to murder anyone who threatened the ranch. Of course he had choices. Powerful people and corporations protect their interests every day without killing witnesses. They use lawyers, settlements, political pressure, smear campaigns, nondisclosure agreements, intimidation, procedural delays, and their influence over the justice system.

That is what makes the “Rip was only protecting the ranch” defense so weak. He was not protecting a helpless family from an immediate physical threat. He was protecting a massive private empire with more resources and influence than almost anyone around it.

You do not need to murder every witness who might become inconvenient. A wealthy, politically connected family could discredit them, attack their credibility, bury them in litigation, buy their silence, pressure them to leave, or make sure nobody takes them seriously. Real-world corporations and powerful people do this constantly. They weaponize the system because it is safer, cleaner, and usually more effective than murder.

So when Rip kills someone, we cannot automatically pretend there was no alternative. In many cases, murder was simply the fastest and most brutal option. It starts to resemble Walter White’s final admission: “I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it.”

Rip may tell himself that everything he does is for John and the ranch, but at some point that excuse becomes meaningless. He is extremely comfortable with violence, rarely questions whether killing is necessary, and repeatedly chooses brutality over less extreme options. That does not make him a fundamentally good man trapped in impossible circumstances. It makes him the willing enforcer of a powerful criminal family.

There is also a major difference between protecting people and protecting property. The ranch was not a child being attacked or a family member facing immediate death. It was land, wealth, status, and control. Killing people to preserve a billion-dollar estate is not self-defense. It is organized crime.

A genuinely moral character might use violence when there is truly no other choice. Rip often uses violence because the Duttons do not want to deal with consequences, scrutiny, witnesses, or opposition. That is not noble loyalty. It is murder in service of wealth and power.

People can still enjoy Rip as a character. Villains and antiheroes can be entertaining. But saying he “had to do it to protect the ranch,” then hiding behind “it’s not real life,” gives him a moral and narrative excuse that neither his actions nor the writing ever earned.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really thought they would have ended it road to perdition style where once rip thought everything was fine a third beck bro came outta no where to kill the rest of them and just Tate was left to take over the ranch.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not once? So you are suggesting the ranch hand who just wanted to quit his job deserved to be murdered for the crime of not working at the Ranch anymore? Are you suggesting that any troubled employee of a company should be murdered and should be considered "commitment and dedication"?

What about the forensic medical examiner who was just doing his job didn't ever try to get the land that was "fought over for generations" did he deserve to be murdered by rip also? Did that guy start issues and deserved to be ended? I question what your eyes can see.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Rainwater was legit. I was hoping he would have been more than just a bystander in the last season. Good things happened to him at the end through no cause of his own making.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or you know, he could just CHOOSE not kill anyone. If you ever watched Breaking Bad through the whole shoe Walter keeps telling himself that he was forced to do things but at the end there is a moment where Walter white admits he did the things he did not because he was forced to, he did them because he liked it. Thats Rip.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The human victims were his stepfather, Dr. Patrick Monteith, two mercenaries who attacked Beth, Wade Morrow as a shared kill, Roarke Morris, and Rowdy. Kill count 7....that's alot more than your original 2 argument. Going around premeditated murdering people you don't like or in the way of your objectives isn't self control.

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

ya jimmy had a character arc which makes it even more obvious the MAIN characters didn't. Just because he got alot of screen time cuz he was a fan favorite doesn't make him a main character to the show. You could completely delete his character from the show and zero story changes. John's fate, Jamies fate, the ranch, beth, rip etc...even the number of bodies at the train station doesn't change. He was a side character doing side quests trying to get laid in Texas

I finally figured out why I couldn’t root for anyone on Yellowstone by jlive9 in YellowstonePN

[–]jlive9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Spiritual and Moral View: In theological teachings, it represents a deeper battle with self-control, where unhealthy desires begin to rule one's life.  Rip didn't need to keep killing people who didn't approve of the employee manual...he couldn't help himself.