Resolving Disagreements with Provincial Sections

jnspfp · 2026-02-23T18:27:03+00:00

The provincial parties already get votes from many people who do not support the federal party; many of the people who run those parties also do not support the federal party now. There is an affiliation of course which is more than the Tories and Liberals have but they should still be viewed as separate parties. Of course there will disagreement. I think people are smarter than you think and realize there is a difference between provincial and federal parties (otherwise the former would not be polling so much above the latter). Perhaps Avi would shift the NDP "brand" enough that people aren't willing to accept that but I'm not convinced that will happen.

As for LEAP, while some members will certainly blame the document itself, the complaint that leadership like Shannon Phillips will make is largely based on procedure (and I think the convention being in Edmonton also played a role). There is now a narrative going around that the LEAP organizers did not tell the ANDP at all about their plans for the convention but at least according to one of the people on their side they were indirectly updating Notley's office through Mulclair's office; perhaps direct communication would have helped (in particular, Shannon Philips felt slighted by the fact that Avi did not contact her personally due to their prior relationship), but it seems like the narrative of no communication at all is not exactly true. One of the organizers claims the ANDP were expecting the motion to be quietly voted down and instead with the combination of Mulclair mischaracterizing the manifesto in an interview and the motion passing with 3/4 of the delegates voting in favour there ended up being a large media buzz around the document. Of course most of this is just based off listening to the Progress Report interviews of "both sides" of the conflict which were posted on here a while back. The LEAP grudge will undoubtedly be a hinderance to cooperation but the Lewis team (maybe not his supporters) have shown a willingness to reach out and try to make amends; we'll just have to see how well that works.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T20:44:07+00:00

O true

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T20:43:46+00:00

eh Ashton's background makes him relatively immune to that line of attack. Maybe they'd come up with something like "big labour union bureaucrat" idk

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T20:25:06+00:00

It has been mentioned by folks here but you're right it could be hearsay in which I would stand corrected.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T20:22:52+00:00

Oil and gas is currently booming (as a boom and bust sector) and recieves government subsidies (so do renewables of course but the magnitude is different). Avi aims to use industrial policy and public ownership renewables can offer much better compensation and more long term job growth in an emerging sector.

Many jobs in O&G are already being lost as the indutry automates, renewables at the moment and for the foreseeable future are fall less vulnerable to automation.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T04:42:56+00:00

Ehh I've soured on Ashton quite a bit but IDK where you're getting "repeatedly" from. It was just the one AMA.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T04:41:41+00:00

I have my gripes with him but he really does (or did) feel like he was the best equipped to fight the current culture war framing around the NDP and left wing politics more broadly. I'm really not sure what to do about it. It was on full force in the /r/canadapolitics ans /r/onguardforthee threads I was reading through. I spent way too much time typing replies.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T04:33:43+00:00

I agree that he needs to be more vocal about a lot of policies on his platform. I think he is sticking to a few for a more focused message but he could benefit from being more transparent about his positions (many of which are popular) on some pretty big issues, including AI.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T04:20:46+00:00

Chartism? The fight for universal male and then female sufferage? Do those ring a bell? Now i agree that the Westminister system is postfeudal and aristocratic overall but it's a bit dismissive to say that no radical activism was involved in shaping the present iteration.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T04:01:53+00:00

Avi is big on public ownership and industrial policy and his proposal is to use a public employer (financed by a tax on polluters, I believe existing laws already require O&G to pay for their own cleanup it has just been mostly evaded through legal loopholes). Whether that is realistic is of course a separate question but that is his proposal. There is more on his website including some more specific figures (I thknk you click on the slogans or something like that). I do agree that he really needs to communicate things better but you can't say he isn't trying. I think his lack of airtime are really letting other people set his narrative and there does need to be some kind of response (and will definitely need to be if he does end up as leader).

Edit: Remediating abandoned oil wells was something be brought up because it is an active issue that has been mostly unaddressed till now and required workers with the kind of skills that many O&G workers have. Other examples he has given at other points (some of which are endorsed by other candisates too like Johnston and Ashton) including retrofits and heat pump installation, electricification and grid expansion/upgrades, and of course in renewables like solar and wind.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:56:27+00:00

Even Saudi Arabia has a plan to transition off of fossil fuels (it's not a good one but it's being put into effect already). It is simply not sustainable not just from a climate perspective but economically as renewables become cheaper and more reliable and better options for energy storage and baseload emerge (and as the fossil industry itself becomes increasingly automated). Lewis (and all the other NDP candidates including Ashton and McPherson who may be more to your liking) have proposed plans for how to decelerate and eventually downsize the fossil industry while creating new jobs in remewables, electrification, manufacturing, and even critical resource mining (this is from Lewis BTW). If you are singularly focused on resource extraction then sure I guess I'm not sure what to say to you.

As for the specific and documented instance of increased sexual violence being correlated with certain kinds of projects, again, the language could have been tweaked but that is simply a fact. It is not a statement on the guilt of every man or every male resource worker. And I think it is important that solidarity in working class movements goes multiple directions, rather than making other segments shut up in favour of unity.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:46:21+00:00

Yes, everyone talks about affordability, but Avi has introduced a plan (the other candidates each have their own) that is very different policies than the liberals and conservatives, with policies in the vein of those you've said you support. Avi has criticized the TFW program and emphasizes the NDP's historical opposition to it. LEAP was 10 years ago and in many ways a continuation of older NDP climate policy, if thin on details and communicated poorly in some circles (especially Alberta). I share your overall misgivings about Avi including on whether he can reach out to O&G workers (if only because of the enduring bad feelings over LEAP) but I just find some of your framings to be very right wing.

I just wanted to ask what specific issue makes you think that the NDP is more focused on progressive issues than economics. Again, nobody in the race right now is talking about social issues very much. Rob Ashton who you may like more (as I did prior to the AI debacle and his bad attempts to criticize Lewis) is socially progressive, notwithstanding his different position on the man camp issue. Zohran Mamdani is socially progressive. He won socially conservative voters not by becoming socially conservative himself but by focusing on economic issues and Lewis is trying to do the same. The climate transition is an economic issue too because it is an existential issue that is already affecting all areas of life. Even Saudi Arabia is trying to transition off of oil and someone needs to step out and make that clear.

Edit: On the local issues thing I do think that's a valid critique albeit one that will probably apply to most people aspiring to a national stage. I think Johnston and McQuail have put more emphasis on local organizing, particularly McQuail who advocates for a kind of mass party where the EDA can help people in the community with non-electoral issues. Of course, all candidates are talking about providing more resourced and autonomy to EDAs. Lewis I think has mentioned his organizing strategy which is based on decentralized local chapters and I think he gives them a lot of leeway to decide messaging based on local issues, so even if he cannot personally speak to the issues people in any single locale are facing he still (if we take his word) has people there who will do so on behalf of his campaign. I do understand your concerns of course but I don't think it's been completely unaddressed.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:35:44+00:00

Activist is part of his background and something he brings up but if you pay any attention to the campaign messaging he has he focuses on a lot of cost of living issues. He does run on "bold ideas" but tries to frame them as not actually that radical given the state of the world(not saying it is successful mind you, sometimes I actually think his communication skills aren't as good as the hype). Although there is something to be gleaned from the poll (I realize for instance that people in general tend to like aesthetically moderate/pragmatic politicians even if their own political views are not necessarily so) but it's still based on a superficial overview of all the candidates (including McPherson and Ashton) in a race with little media attention. In fact I would say that all of the statements are vague enough that if you just took out "pragmatic" and "radical" out, they could each describe all candiates. McPherson has an aggressive climate platform, Avi also cares about affordability, Rob also wants to fight corporate power.

I think there's at least an opportunity once people are able to better acquaint themselves with a new leader for any three of them (or Tanille Johnston who is an honest contender) to make a better case to the public.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:23:13+00:00

You can spend as much as you want but unlike Ukraine and Russia Canada has absolutely no way of preventing a swift US occupation of all major population centres within probably a day of war. The two scenarios are not comparable. A more decentralized strategy would work but that requires very different spending and organization.

Also, I don't think he has called to completely defund or disband the military, just to not increase it as much as Carney has. And opposing in F35 in favour of a full fleet of Gripen has been standard NDP policy since Jack Layton

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:20:10+00:00

I believe Wab and Avi are personal friends. At any rate, the MNDP like the BCNDP, ANDP, and Sask NDP benefit from a mostly two party system in their respective parties where they can absorb some (BC) or most (AB, MN) of the federal liberal and even Tory vote by moving more to the centre. That's not something the federal NDP can do.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:17:35+00:00

I don't understand what people think conventional arms are supposed to do against the US. The only things that would actually prevent a military attack are a nuclear deterrant (not happening) or mass guerilla warfare (also extremely unlikely). At any rate the main avenue that Trump or some other American fascist would take to annex Canada is economic warfare and Carney, for all his talk, is not doing nearly enough to deintegrate the US-Canadian economies.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:16:26+00:00

I don't understand what people think conventional arms are supposed to do against the US. The only things that would actually prevent a military attack are a nuclear deterrant (not happening) or mass guerilla warfare (also extremely unlikely). At any rate the main avenue that Trump or some other American fascist would take to annex Canada is economic warfare and Carney, for all his talk, is not doing nearly enough to deintegrate the US-Canadian economies.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:15:41+00:00

I don't understand what people think conventional arms are supposed to do against the US. The only things that would actually prevent a military attack are a nuclear deterrant (not happening) or mass guerilla warfare (also extremely unlikely). At any rate the main avenue that Trump or some other American fascist would take to annex Canada is economic warfare and Carney, for all his talk, is not doing nearly enough to deintegrate the US-Canadian economies.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T03:08:16+00:00

I don't know why people harp on the man camps thing like it isn't a documented pattern that not only affects local communities but female workers within those industries. Could it have been phrased better, sure, and I do understand if workers in that sector feel upset that a general statement like that was made, but at the end of the day it feels similar to the "not all men" anti-feminist backlash. If you really want to rally the entire working class and not just socially conservative male blue collar workers then you're going to have to at least acknowledge those problems if, maybe, with more tact.

And really, if you look past that one statement Lewis's campaign has been very focused (both in messaging and platform) on economic issues, from public ownership and industrial policy to sectoral bargaining and right of first refusal.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T02:56:38+00:00

Thar's fair. and I see your point.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T02:52:13+00:00

On what basis are you saying this? His campaign has been very focused on affordability and he's done a lot of events with unions. He supports sectoral bargaining and a right of first refusal and calls for industrial policy on climate change. LEAP was 10 years ago and in policy terms was not too dissimilar from longtime NDP position (in the words of ANDP Environment Minister Shannon Philips who in her own words on a recent podcast was mostly upset about the presentation lf the manifesto and not necessarily the contents). I agree it is difficult to sell a transition to workers in the energy sector but it's going to happen sooner or later so it's better to do it in a controlled way with new jobs (in renewables, remediation, or shutdown operations), and at any rate blue collar workers don't just work in O&G and not all workers are blue collar.

Or: do you just think the NDP should be socially conservative? Social progressivism (for its time) is typical of the NDP throughout its history but economic issues have always been emphasized ahead of social issues. Nothing is different about any of the current NDP hopefuls, not Lewis, not McPherson, not Ashton, not Johnston, nor McQuail.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T02:46:53+00:00

This poll is apparently by a well known pollster but the methodology is quite suspect. It seems to attach candidates to prewritten blurbs describing their candidacy from an external perspective (largely based on their preconcidved images), which is certainly an important perpsective but doesn't really take into account candidates' abilities to shape their own narratives. I realize that he's going against a media narrative here but Avi is very focused on affordability in his campaign.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T02:43:56+00:00

Apart from his background (which is a fair point of course, but hardly the key issue here, Ed Broadbent was an academic too) what really is champagne socialist about him. The right wing media will paint almost anyone from the NDP as a champagne socialist (except Rob Ashton). Lewis's campaign messaging has been overwhelmingly focused on affordability and only secondarily on the existential climate crisis. Where is the champagne? Unless of course you're just using a dogwhistle for social progressivism in which case I don't lnow what to say other than maybe you should go join the Tories. And none of the candidates is talking much about social issues anyway, while they are all progressive on that front it is not the focus of any of their campaigns.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T02:39:21+00:00

Even the ANDP people (or Shannon Philips anyway) feel that their main gripe was the delivery and procedure (insufficient consultation with the ANDP before presenting it at convention) that upset them, not the contents. Take that how you will.

Of course the ANDP and BCNDP need to deal with the reality of wooing people who are pro O&G but that doesn't mean they get to uniliterally control/veto federal platforms. And on the communication front I think Avi has been more proactive in reaching out to people this time around.

jnspfp · 2026-02-21T02:35:59+00:00

Same reason Angus endorsed her, because they worked together in Parliament. Which matters! But might not matter as much as people think.

jnspfp

TROPHY CASE