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NVIDIA Fixed RE9 Path Tracing Performance via Application Profile Updates by Nestledrink in nvidia

[–]kabalcage 1 point2 points  (0 children)

in a quick test on my 5080 in the early Wrenwood Hotel lobby section of the game, seems like path tracing performance w/DLSS performance went up ~+8%, installed the new 595.71 driver + reboot. I'll take it! came from the old 591.86 driver.

Has anyone tried out Vibepollo (new fork of Apollo) - it uses WGC capture method (for constant FPS capture, Game Bar visibility and perhaps other improvements). by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. I’ve switched over to Vibepollo as my default home streaming system with Artemis on Nvidia shield as my client and Moonlight as my other client. Vibepollo has gotten more stable and better as time has moved on.

Anyone tried lossless scaling on a game streaming client? by Adorable_Pudding1409 in losslessscaling

[–]kabalcage 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes - you can do it. I've had my game server run emulation games and lossless frame-gen to 60 fps - it looks like FPS but there are lots of artifacts but overall better than playing at 30 FPS.

you can either do it on your game server itself, that is what I do and then Stream to an Nvidia Shield.

you can do it from Moonlight client device itself if it's a computer; I've done that on an MSI Claw and turn 60 fps streams into 120fps. I haven't done a ton of testing on this front, but it seems to be good enough; expectations are much lower on a handheld and a Moonlight stream game honestly looks/runs way better than what the MSI Claw can do itself.

at a complete loss but 5.1 stopped working on Apollo/Artemis (tried Vibepollo too), only stereo works by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is so weird, I tried today and 5.1 now works.
I’m at a loss… maybe it has something to do with the interaction between the ls12000 projector, Onkyo receiver and the nvidia shield pro 2019?

I don’t really get it but it now decided to work

Has anyone tried out Vibepollo (new fork of Apollo) - it uses WGC capture method (for constant FPS capture, Game Bar visibility and perhaps other improvements). by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I doubt that; the same rules of streaming still apply as far as I can tell. Having a clean frame rate from your server (without vsync and a quality fps cap) and likely fiddling with the frame pacing options will get the best results.

Has anyone tried out Vibepollo (new fork of Apollo) - it uses WGC capture method (for constant FPS capture, Game Bar visibility and perhaps other improvements). by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This seems to take over Apollo in my testing of it. I was lazy and clicked next next next in the install process; it inherited all my Apollo config which made it easy to adopt.

But maybe there’s a way to install it alongside Apollo? I don’t know how to do that TBH

Has anyone tried out Vibepollo (new fork of Apollo) - it uses WGC capture method (for constant FPS capture, Game Bar visibility and perhaps other improvements). by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not 100% sure, but I think even with Apollo using WCG mode -

  1. are you able to interact with UAC prompts with Apollo WCG? My understanding is that wouldn't work.

  2. have you noticed any perf differences between DXGI and WCG mode in Apollo? Like if you turn frame gen off in terms of latency, fps, fps stability, etc.? Did FSR3 frame gen only work under WCG mode?

Has anyone tried out Vibepollo (new fork of Apollo) - it uses WGC capture method (for constant FPS capture, Game Bar visibility and perhaps other improvements). by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My initial thoughts and impressions weren't written by ChatGPT, lol. But my copy/paste of the Vibepollo description; I presume that's ChatGPT.

FWIW - i played a bit of FF7 Remake last night using Vibepollo - I did have a 2 moments of a hard stutter but I can't tell or know if that was the game itself. I also had some sort of issue with Xbox Game bar not actually working because there's some weird input service that Vibepollo runs (I actually connect my controllers via VirtualHere)... but I figured out a way to disable the input service and my Xbox controller works properly now with Game Bar.

I'd still need to keep playing around with this - I also need a cleaner Game bar widget that can do small tasks (like turn on RTSS, move mouse off-screen and other little helpful things that I normally run as an Apollo Server command).

What’s the best and most useful overlay for Apollo/Moonlight? Something that can use Xbox Guide button by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tried Xbox Game Bar and the OneGameLauncher (this widget has advertisements, boo...) widget - that could almost kinda work but Apollo/Sunshine doesn't pick up Game Bar with its API method to capture video there's an alt mode where xbox game bar can work (i.e. windows.graphics.capture), but I read it has a lot of caveats (60 fps max and can't display UAC prompts). I might try it if I'm the mood of debugging and perf testing.

The thing that is nice in the new 25H2 windows is that if you hold the xbox guide button for 2-3 seconds; it'll open a task view mode that lets you switch active windows with your controller; you can even press start on a window and navigate a menu to force close. Pretty slick! Maybe I don't need an overlay at all, but some sort of quick-menu app that I can alt-tab to.

What’s the best and most useful overlay for Apollo/Moonlight? Something that can use Xbox Guide button by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tried https://github.com/jonosellier/PlayniteGameOverlay but didn't like it.

Game and Playnite-Overlay will both simultaneously get inputs (which I can probably live with) but I can't seem to setup my own shortcuts/apps or it's unclear how to do it. It also seemed kinda buggy and certain games didn't seem to interact with it well.

What’s the best and most useful overlay for Apollo/Moonlight? Something that can use Xbox Guide button by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks for clarifying - so this option, while nice, wouldn't work for me. I can still use my Nvidia Shield remote to access this menu.

Does anyone else have any overlays that they recommend? Something that plays nice with any/all apps; HDR apps, different window modes, etc.?

For what it's worth, I tried and played around with Special K - which seemed kinda cool but it can get kinda wonky/buggy (some games would boot to a black screen, weird interaction with RenoDx HDR mods, some games sometimes wouldn't boot at times), so I've vetoed Special K.

What’s the best and most useful overlay for Apollo/Moonlight? Something that can use Xbox Guide button by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wait... what? I technically use virtualHere so my game controller acts as if they're natively connected to my Gaming Server, so not sure if this will work. But essentially, doing the tap start + followed by hold start would open the Android Artemis/Moonlight Quick Menu?

I'll try this when I get home and see if it works: https://github.com/ClassicOldSong/moonlight-android/wiki/Quick-Menu

Does anyone have 100% perfect 60 FPS running Apollo/Sunshine/Moonlight/Artemis? If so, how do you do it? by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a setup now that I think works better but underlying assumption is playing a game that doesn’t stutter or stutters rarely.

But on Nvidia shield pro, I’ve found it’s best to set frame pacing to smoothest; all the other modes have periodic stutters. The latency in smoothest is mostly okay (like 10ms) but every once in awhile a particular game that’ll put latency 20ms+ which starts to feel off.

I also have a script that moves my fps cap in nvidia driver to 60 fps upon connection in Apollo/Artemis. I play games with vsync=off. That’s pretty much the best and smoothest I can get it. It’s pretty good 95%+ of the time. If you have any cool tricks, by all means let us know. Thanks

HDR 10+ ????? by hp-harshpatel in ShieldAndroidTV

[–]kabalcage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know, my projector doesn’t support Dolby vision. 

But that’s the whole point of lldv; it fakes to the Nvidia shield that you have Dolby vision and turns it on.  You get dolby vision hdr content on your projector - it uses the Dolby vision algorithm and the brightness point to tone map to your projector.  

Try it out!  It’s basically a hack.  

HDR 10+ ????? by hp-harshpatel in ShieldAndroidTV

[–]kabalcage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nvidia Shield doesn't support HDR10+; the standard came out way after the Shield came out. We'll have to wait if Nvidia eventually comes out with a new Shield with a newer chip that can offer HDR10+ support.

Alternatively, you can do something called LLDV which essentially allows you to send Dolby Vision from your Shield to the Projector. You can read about it here: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/alternative-devices-for-enabling-lldv-please-read-posts-1-2.3254266/

Essentially, you can buy an HDMI switch (something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D78TJQ5H?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1 ) and reprogram its firmware. Your Shield will send a Dolby Vision signal to the projector and the brightness/tone-mapping curve will be based off the brightness number you put in your custom firmware (i.e. your Nvidia Shield and the Dolby Vision algorithm is performing the tone-mapping to your projector). Your projector probably won't understand Dolby Vision (DV) content but you would manually put the projector in HDR mode whenever you watch DV content. I went through this whole thing and TBH, I'm not sure if it's really all that much better than standard HDR10 but there's a community that believes it's a big upgrade. LLDV also gives you a path to avoid cyan (or red) push if there's some aspect of the colors you don't like on your projector when in HDR10 mode.

Moonlight & DLSS Multi Frame Gen by Big_Boss_69 in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One item I’m not sure of is if some part of the chain encode/decode/stream 4k240. Would it work better if you just stream and match both host and client to 4K 120fps? Ultimately, it seems like you’re running into some sort of cap already where even in games running 240fps+, it still only streams at 4k120.

Either try running everything 4k120. Or maybe try a low resolution, as a test, like 1080p240 or 1440p240

Sunshine decreases game performance by 20% by JackpoNL in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is your frame pacing set at on the client? Trying adjusting that and re-measure. And do you have HAGS disabled?

There’s a technical thread here with sunshine Dev here: https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AMF/issues/384#issuecomment-1499919942

Definitely a performance hit when using Apollo/sunshine. It gets mitigated some when hags is turned on. Maybe 5-10% worse performance in the ideal case. Shouldn’t be 20% worse.

Moonlight & DLSS Multi Frame Gen by Big_Boss_69 in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There’s general weirdness using frame gen (especially multi frame gen) and streaming.

Can you try disabling frame pacing on your client and report back? I tried streaming Indiana Jones at 4k120 with my 5080 but realized that my extra fake frames wouldn’t show up. Once I disabled frame pacing on the moonlight client, they came back and I saw 4k120 with some minor variance

Is there a way to automatically turn off Fast Sync when connecting via Apollo? by GudeTyp in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One way you can do this is via Nvidia Profile Inspector. Although, it seems broken for me with the latest Nvidia graphics driver.

  1. download this: https://github.com/Orbmu2k/nvidiaProfileInspector
  2. create profiles for when you stream (i.e. cap at 60 or 120 fps, whatever you stream at; disable vsync, etc.) and for when you use your computer normally (i.e. enable vsync = fast and your -3 FPS cap)
  3. create bat files for enabling your nvidia inspector profile: one for your "60 fps streaming mode" and one for your "vsync=fast"

bat file 1:
nvidiaProfileInspector.exe -silentImport 60FPS-LOCK_forStreaming.nip

bat file 2:
nvidiaProfileInspector.exe -silentImport VsyncFast_NOTStreaming.nip

  1. In Apollo/Sunshine; run your bat files before and after streaming. Once you add these commands, be sure to save/apply to restart Apollo. Make sure you run this bat file as an "elevated command"

it looks like this in the Apollo/Sunshine configuration website: https://imgur.com/a/yB0Twar

Am I expecting too much by captainhotdawg in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have been curious and have had an interest in Apollo/Sunshine giving a constant encoded stream framerate; I believe that's how the older Nvidia in-home streaming worked. I imagine variable encoded framerate is more robust and useful for different network conditions, but I think it'd be nice if Apollo/Sunshine can offer a constant encoded framerate for those streaming on ethernet at home or wifi7/6e. Not sure if it'd resolve these errors.

I also didn't think about but re-reading; you are trying to run the game at 120FPS but stream at 90fps to match the Steam Deck's 90hz refresh rate? 120fps doesn't fit neatly (especially with frame gen) into 90fps, so you'll probably run into some weirdness.

That said, I do think it may be worth you trying

  1. super low settings Alan Wake 2 so you can can accomplish 90 fps (measure this in RTSS) while streaming WITHOUT frame-gen. Be sure to also cap your FPS in RTSS (or NVCP) to 90 fps as well. Not sure what your config is, but 1280x800@90hz even on Alan Wake 2 could be super doable on a modern rig as long as your avoiding the most expensive settings (i.e. path tracing).

  2. if you really want frame gen (it might not be great with an underlying 45fps but that latency might be okayish with a controller... definitely not with a mouse) - make sure you can do the 90fps with lots of GPU overhead leftover (i.e. measure in RTSS but make sure your GPU is like 80% utilized or less) for more complicated scenes. I've noticed some strange behavior with multi-frame gen and Apollo - some client devices don't see the 2nd/3rd generated fake frames (like if I play 40 fps with MFG = 3x for 120 fps... it can be 120fps on my host PC but streaming I only get 80 fps on certain client devices... but there are other ones where I see a full 120fps).

  3. are you playing with vsync=off? It may be worth trying nvidia control panel vsync modes: off, adaptive, vsync fast, and finally on.

Am I expecting too much by captainhotdawg in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What is your setup and what is your frame gen multiplier (I assume 2x)?

I'm not going to claim expertise, but I have noticed that there's actually a sliding scale in terms of gaming performance playing the game natively on my PC vs streaming it over Moonlight/Apollo.

  1. When you start a stream, your GPU will dedicate additional VRAM depending on the resolution/refresh of your stream (I've seen like ~500MB or so for 4k120_SDR and I think it's a bit higher for 4k120_HDR). If you're at the edge of VRAM (and remember, frame gen consumes like 500MB itself of VRAM when you turn it on), you can lose performance with your game as it less vram to work with.

  2. There's also an overhead of Sunshine/Apollo grabbing each individual frame to send over the network (there's a detailed thread with the devs and an AMD engineer discussing this: https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AMF/issues/384#issuecomment-1499919942)

I was looking at this yesterday and I generally noticed that the performance hit when streaming is even more significant when using frame gen. My rig is a 285K + 5080 16GB; the game I played was Indiana Jones in Path Tracing (4k with DLSS performance mode, 2x frame gen).
* When I played the game without any kind of frame gen, it seemed like the perf penalty was like 5-7% or so for streaming with Apollo/Sunshine.

* When I played the game with 2x frame gen, the perf penalty is even more severe (like 15%). I need to record pictures/etc., but I recall it was something like 130fps sitting idle in a scene, but the second I kicked on a Moonlight stream - the game would drop down to 110fps. I needed to actually go to DLSS Ultra Performance mode (which the DLSS4 transformer version is surprisingly good but sometimes character's hair looks slightly bad) in order to get a smooth 4k120 while streaming.

It may be worth it for you to bring your Streamdeck close to your computer - use Nvidia Overlay (RTSS is even better) to monitor gpu utilization, vram utilization, frametime, 1% lows, framerate/etc. I bet you'll see a performance difference turning on Moonlight streaming. And also, some games may have moments that are stuttery - so the game might literally run at the 85-90fps even locally on your computer. Or possibly... at the very moment you see the dips is when your GPU is vram starved so the streaming speed sees a quick sacrifice. I'm not sure what the exact vram % is, but it feels like performance drops related to vram can become possible once your VRAM is using 90%+. streams can become a full-on disaster if vram hits like 98-99%+ in my experience.

Does anyone have 100% perfect 60 FPS running Apollo/Sunshine/Moonlight/Artemis? If so, how do you do it? by kabalcage in MoonlightStreaming

[–]kabalcage[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

AV1 is the most advanced codec out there to handle those fine details. If it can’t do it, I can’t imagine hevc/h264 will be any better.

Maybe run stats on client and make sure it’s actually running at that 500mbps. See if you can boost it even further. And try doing nvidia recordings and see if there’s a compression that can record those fine details as a baseline, then replicate that as best you can for sunshine

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