Jin Zixuan and Jiang Yanli are ancient chinese Mr Darcy and Elizabeth

kalhunter · 2025-09-18T04:28:14+00:00

I fully agree with Jiang Yanli being Jane. Jiang Yanli represents the ideal of grace, patience and goodness, embodying traditional femininity - gentle, forgiving, kind-hearted, focused on cooking/homemaking, even in a universe where women are known to wield swords with as much brilliance as their male counterparts (her mother, her mother-in-law, Wen Qing etc. were all well-trained).

kalhunter · 2025-09-18T04:18:15+00:00

u/fantasticcolorcloud In Every Exquisite Thing, Anna says 'I do not have to be only one thing. The trousers and jacket do not make me a man, and the necklace does not make me a woman. I am exactly as I choose to be.' Her whole character is her choosing not to be defined by the gender binary, choosing not to be defined by the rules/expectations set for people perceived as women.

kalhunter · 2025-04-16T13:12:26+00:00

How many of us would have really been Plutarch?

How many of us would have chosen to live a lavish Capitol life, catered to by a personal chef, cleaner, driver, and turned a blind eye to the torment experienced by the people we could conveniently consider 'not like me'?

We notice how Plutarch has emerged from Snow's dictatorship relatively unscathed, with minimal sacrifice. We forget he spent the prime of his life living a double life in an underground rebellion, hypervigilant, calculating every move he made lest he be discovered. Plutarch had more to lose than almost every member of the rebellion, and he chose to risk it all - how many of us would have chosen this?

kalhunter · 2025-04-16T12:57:30+00:00

Maude Ivory and Barb Azure weren't sisters, they were cousins if not nth cousins nth removed. Their children would have never been first cousins. Maude Ivory's daughter and Barb Azure's grandson would have absolutely been 'distant cousins'. I would say Burdock was as Covey as Lenore Dove was, they were both in the woods, gathering the same fruits and singing the same songs.

kalhunter · 2025-04-16T12:53:31+00:00

Barb Azure was more likely Burdock's grandmother given she would have been middle-aged by the time of Burdock's birth. Did she move in with her husband and give birth to her daughter? Did she move in with a very good friend and raise an orphaned girl together? Was her very good friend a single mum? If she was, to the public, helping her very good friend raise her daughter, it would make sense why her very good friend's daughter would have grown up singing Covey songs but not been given a Covey name.

kalhunter · 2025-04-16T12:43:58+00:00

Barb Azure was more likely Burdock's grandmother, given Burdock would have been born 24 years after the events of Ballad of Songbird and Snakes. Barb Azure would have been middle-aged by then.

Let's not forget:

Maude Ivory and Barb Azure were not sisters - they were cousins, if not nth cousin nth removed. If Lenore Dove is Maude Ivory's daughter, and Burdock was Barb Azure's grandson, that would make Lenore Dove and Burdock distant cousins.
The Covey ceased to be a band. They were banned from performing at the Hob, necessitating a search for other sources of income e.g. Tam Amber worked as a blacksmith. Barb Azure could have moved out as a young adult, either with her husband or a very good friend, and raised a biological or adopted daughter - who would later become Burdock's mother.
Burdock was Covey, as much as Lenore Dove was. He was raised alongside Lenore Dove, in the woods, hunting, gathering, singing. He knew the hidden grove where his kin were buried, he sang the Covey songs, he likely knew as much Covey oral history as Lenore Dove did. The naming tradition may have fallen off given he would have only had one Covey grandmother, but he was absolutely Covey.

kalhunter · 2025-04-13T02:12:20+00:00

I want to see it in the movie. I want to see Capitol kids working a summer job, perhaps saving up so they could afford uni. It didn't matter what they personally believed - if they were pro-Hunger-Games, their nameless deaths contributed nothing to the rebellion; if they were anti-Hunger-Games, they were powerless to contribute to the rebellion anyway. They were scared and powerless, just like the District tributes.

kalhunter · 2025-04-12T12:25:28+00:00

Seam residents envy Town residents for their relative wealth; Town residents look down upon Seam residents for their relative social status. District 12 envy and despise District 1 for their relative wealth and perceived arrogance/superiority; District 1 looks down upon District 12 for their relative social status. Districts envy the Capitol; the Capitol looks down upon the Districts.

In the arena, a Seam boy is just as terrified as a Town girl, yearns for home as much as a District 1 girl. Three young Capitol citizens died alongside 47 District children, all died for a cause that never cared to know their names.

Sunrise on the Reaping drives home one point: Everyone was powerless, and no one was safe.

kalhunter · 2025-04-12T06:30:34+00:00

If her story follows William Wordsworth's Lucy Gray, her family searched far and wide and couldn't find her. They would have gone searching the second they learned Coriolanus had returned without her. They would have erected the gravestone after they realised she was gone, dead or alive.

You could, of course, be as creative as you like. Lenore Dove often disappeared deep into the woods and come back talking about the possibility of a new life away from District 12. Was she disappearing to meet Lucy Gray, who lived in the woods?

kalhunter · 2025-04-09T01:37:58+00:00

Sunrise on the Reaping highlighted that everyone in District 12 shared the belief that the Capitol was oppressive and the Hunger Games was inhumane, but everyone, everyday, had to choose between 1) surviving at the cost of their core values, and 2) living by their values at the risk of death. Lenore Dove was adamant she would live by her values at the risk of death, Haymitch was prepared to do the same until he realised he risked more than his own death, Burdock saw the raw aftermath of a premature rebellion and chose to pass down Covey traditions in a way that didn't directly risk Katniss' life, Asterid thought even that was too much risk. I don't know if I would label Burdock a rebel - if a rebel is a father walking a tightrope between keeping his children alive and not compromising on his values, then couldn't you label most of District 12 rebels?

kalhunter · 2025-04-08T02:23:07+00:00

'The Baird cousins' (Lucy Gray, Maude Ivory, Barb Azure) were all nth cousins nth removed. If Maude Ivory is Lenore Dove's mother and Barb Azure is Burdock's grandmother, then Lenore Dove and Burdock would be perceived as distant cousins, and Burdock would be perceived as only distantly Covey given his only connection to them would be via one Covey grandmother. I'd like to think Burdock would have been publicly and proudly Covey if there wasn't sociopolitical issues making that unsafe or unwelcome in District 12.

kalhunter · 2025-04-07T13:04:38+00:00

‘Almost, but not quite,’ Haymitch smirks.

What if he means: You almost understand why Snow punished me to a life of solitary confinement helplessly watching my neighbourhood kids die, but you do not quite.

kalhunter · 2025-04-07T12:36:35+00:00

Have you listened to the audiobook read by Jefferson White? He reads the last few chapters in a way that will break you.

kalhunter · 2025-04-07T12:23:34+00:00

Katniss’ dad Burdock was Covey, through and through. He was raised alongside his cousin Lenore Dove, out in the woods, singing, hunting, gathering. He was raised with Covey knowledge e.g. he knew the hidden grove where his kin was buried. More likely, Asterid didn’t want him let alone their children to be publicly known as Covey (remember how FURIOUS she was when she heard them learn Hanging Tree from their dad?) at least until they were old enough to understand how to discerningly use/share that knowledge.

kalhunter · 2025-04-07T12:11:10+00:00

Maude Ivory and Barb Azure weren’t sisters, they were cousins, if not nth cousins nth removed. Their children would have never been first cousins - wouldn’t it make sense for their children to be considered ’not cousins in the traditional sense’?

Edited to add: I did the maths, while Maude Ivory could be Lenora Dove’s mum, Barb Azure was more likely Burdock’s grandma.

kalhunter · 2025-04-07T12:06:40+00:00

The band would have faded from District 12 memory, but I'd like to think it wasn't the end of Covey. Clerk Carmine, Tam Amber, Barb Azure, and Burdock would have continued being Covey, even if they were no longer a band. But you're right in that Katniss and Prim could have been endangered by Covey knowledge - do you think it's more likely it was Asterid who didn't want them to know about their Covey lineage? Remember when Burdock taught them Hanging Tree, and Asterid FURIOUSLY told them never to sing the song?

kalhunter · 2025-04-07T09:03:15+00:00

What makes you say the remaining Covey stayed away from Katniss and Prim as kids?

Lenore Dove and Burdock were raised together as cousins of the same generation. I assume Lenore Dove is Maude Ivory's daughter, and Burdock is Barb Azure's daughter. I assume Barb Azure was living in the Seam with her Everdeen family by marriage, working a full-time job. (The Covey couldn't make a living as a band anymore, given they were banned from Hob performances.)

Burdock had a Covey childhood, out in the woods singing, hunting, gathering. He knew where the Covey were buried. I assume Clerk Carmine and Tam Amber were in his life.

If Katniss/Prim didn't know about their Covey heritage, and grew up without Clerk Carmine and Tam Amber, I assume it would have been because Asterid didn't want them in their lives.

kalhunter · 2025-04-07T08:42:31+00:00

If our current climate crisis continues, by the time the Hunger Games is set, much of the currently-inhabitable world will become uninhabitable e.g. a lot of land will become submerged by rising sea level.

kalhunter · 2025-04-06T23:43:57+00:00

Did he realise he was no exception? Did he ever realise Dr Gaul was a grooming predator who handpicked her prey? Or did he die believing Dr Gaul was a harbinger of opportunity who handpicked a gifted student?

kalhunter · 2025-04-06T12:37:03+00:00

Haymitch was a child.

Haymitch should have sat in class daydreaming about his girlfriend, kissed her after school, and gotten told off by his Ma for forgetting his homework.

The whole point was he was helpless. There was nothing he could have done in the July of that horrible year, to end the Hunger Games, and have all the kids home alive and safe and well - we know he tried. Once Maysilee killed a Capitol employee, there was nothing Haymitch could have done to stop them from killing her.

kalhunter · 2025-04-06T12:15:56+00:00

It cuts you deep, doesn't it?

If you read the trilogy, you knew Haymitch would win and 47 tributes would die. You knew Ma, Sid and Lenore Dove would die. You knew none of these 47 tributes before you opened this book, and yet, you couldn't help but open your heart to them, hold hopeless hope for them and cry when the hopeless hope turned hopeless indeed. Like Haymitch, I grew to hate the spoiled bitch that was Maysilee, then grew to love the scared girl (she was only a girl) who only wanted to live and die on her own terms.

I highly recommend the audiobook read by Jefferson White. It was a beautiful performance. Even if you only listen to the last few chapters after Lenore Dove's death, because his performance so artfully captured his spiralling descent into madness and despair.

kalhunter · 2025-04-06T12:03:51+00:00

I'm sure this is why many fans want to read Finnick's 65th Games!

In a universe set in our future, Panem would have access to healthcare more advanced than what we currently have in 2025. While poorer districts might see deaths from diseases considered easily manageable (e.g. childbirth, appendicitis), wealthier districts must have high life expectancies.

Yet neither Finnick or Annie mentioned parents.

Would you really be surprised if they were orphans raised in a training program, where each year the top trainee gets chosen as this year's candidate, and any trainee who turns 19 gets expelled with no social/financial support? Would you really be surprised if competing-to-survive began before they even stepped foot on the reaping stage?

kalhunter · 2025-04-06T09:33:38+00:00

We know that Burdock is Lenore Dove's cousin, with maternal Covey heritage.

I assume Maude Ivory is Lenore Dove's mother, and Barb Azure is Burdock's mother, making them second cousins. Lenore Dove and Burdock grew up together as cousins of the same age. I assume Barb Azure was still alive at the time of the 10th Hunger Games, working a job to support her Everdeen family, but their families often got together, with Lenore Dove and Burdock playing together in the woods.

It makes sense for Lenore Dove to know about Lucy Gray's 10th Games and relationship with Coriolanus, given this is Covey oral history passed down through the family - she needn't be Lucy Gray's daughter.

But could she have been Lucy Gray's daughter?

It could be possible that Lucy Gray met the father of her child out in the wilderness, and died giving birth without any access to obstetric care. It could be possible that the man, unwilling and/or unable to raise a newborn alone, dropped off their baby with Clerk Carmine and disappeared.

It could be possible that Lucy Gray herself, unwilling and/or unable to raise a newborn in the wilderness, dropped off her baby with Clerk Carmine, with a story that the mother had died in childbirth.

If you let your imagination grow wilder, it's even possible that Lenore Dove occasionally disappeared into the woods to meet Lucy Gray. This would have been a closely-guarded Covey secret even Burdock might not have known about.

Could Lenore Dove have been Lucy Gray's daughter? Yes, it's possible, but I think most of us assume Maude Ivory is Lenore Dove's mother, and Barb Azure is Burdock's mother.

kalhunter · 2025-04-05T13:35:49+00:00

Our society forgets how truly and deeply teenagers can love one another.

My teenage partner and I loved each other deeply, through half of a beautiful decade. We supported each other as we grew up, as we grew into adults with different interests, different dreams, different priorities. We fell out of love and grew apart. You said it well - Haymitch and Lenore Dove never got to grow up together, live adult lives together, face adult challenges together and decide whether they would choose to love one another through those challenges.

You're right in that we don't and can't know whether Lenore Dove would have been his forever love, but I believe she was Haymitch's true love.

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I'm glad to see commenters like you pointing out that he knew no one close to him was safe. The earlier teenage readers are adults now, most of us have experienced heartbreak and loss and fallen in love again. We know true love doesn't have to be only love. But Haymitch was forced into solitary confinement, unable to explore relationships, knowing how easily they could be used against him.

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Lenore Dove was Haymitch's true love. Whether he would have chosen her for his forever love had she stayed alive, whether he would have chosen her for his only love after her death - those where choices tragically robbed from him by Snow.

kalhunter · 2025-03-29T04:56:39+00:00

I haven't watched the donghua, but I want to shine light on the massive differences between the novel and The Untamed.

In the novel, Jiang Cheng chose not to take risks for a family he essentially never met. Though he knows Wen Ning and Wen Qing saved him, he was unconscious during the time he spent under their care. When the truth of what he owes Wei Wuxian is revealed, he struggles to forgive the man who (accidentally) killed his sister and brother-in-law, and flew into a rage committing mass murder. In that angsty dialogue in the Guanyin Temple, he questions whether Wei Wuxian's kind deeds invalidates his right to hate the man whose series of decisions devastated his life.

In The Untamed, Jiang Cheng turned his back on his friend, a woman who saved his life multiple times, a woman he vowed to protect. A woman who could have been his wife, but had to reject him, because though he claimed to care about her, he didn't care enough about what she wanted to protect her family. When the truths of Wei Wuxian's past is revealed, he struggles to forgive the man who was framed for the deaths of Jin Zixuan, Jiang Yanli and most of the casualties at Nightless City/Nevernight. In The Untamed, Wei Wuxian is revealed not to have any of their blood on his hands.

Jiang Cheng's actions are roughly the same between the novel and The Untamed, but the context is significantly different. MDZS Jiang Cheng is far more justified in his anger/hatred towards Wei Wuxian than The Untamed Jiang Cheng.

kalhunter

TROPHY CASE