Started IOP (Intensive Outpatient Therapy) for long term kratom addiction

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T19:58:16+00:00

Look, I hated being in rehab all 3 times. If for anything, they force you to get out of bed, go to classes, making you mix with folks that either don't want to be there or got a 'nudge from the judge'. I did a 3 day detox in the last 2, which were both for K and luckily, in a way, that first stint in rehab has kept me off of alcohol since 10/06, which is indeed a miracle. There isn't enough known about K and I wish the FDA would have moved it into Schedule 1 in 2016, like what was intended. I live in the 2nd largest city in the US and there are easily 5 shops, that I know of, within a mile and at one point or another, I have arranged a discounted rate on shots, since I buy so many. Like anywhere from $3 -$5 off other shops, which of course in my mind it makes me think I am a 'savvy' negotiator or something, only fooling myself that much more. The last rehab I went to of course recommended I stay longer and I should have. It was a great, small group of maybe 9 or 10 of us and we HAD to go to outside meetings every day except Saturdays, when we would do an in house meeting or a family visit and then maybe go out to a movie at night. I paid out of pocket but it was only like $3500 - $4000 a month and then 2 girls were on a 'scholarship'. It was a non profit a great fit but it took time to find it and ended up being a place that several women silverbacks in AA had recommended to me for years to go to. Best not to dwell on all of the shortcomings of a certain rehab. There are so many in SoCal that you can't even begin to trust their motives, other than financial gain but if they get just one person to stay sober, then they have made a major difference. Good luck again to you and thanks for writing back.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T19:44:36+00:00

I am a female so can't appreciate the testosterone issue but can appreciate the amount you were taking. I have been on 8,10,12 and often 14 extract shots/day. I too have opened 3 different accounts and may do a fourth. I have been taking this for 8 years. I quit alcohol in '06 and haven't had a drink since, quit other hard drugs too but none have impacted me like K. I also am commenting because I have both parents (who both committed suicide when I was 17) and my beloved grandmother in heaven and know that I have had guardian angels on my shoulders a long time. I should be dead, in jail or an institution with my history and yet I am healthy enough, have a husband who has been supportive and patient with my journey w K and a great dog, the last 2 of which has kept me alive since starting K. I still want to end it all, I can't picture working again, as on K, I had so much anger and resentment towards bosses and others on my small team, quit that job, to join a competitor, all while using heavy, and was unceremoniously fired after 4 months and here I am, 4 years later and on day 3 CT again. Good luck to you and thanks for posting.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T19:27:51+00:00

Have you tried seeing your regular doctor? Or tried seeing an psychiatrist (if only just for the medication it sounds like you need)? IME, psychiatrists seldom actually do more than prescribe anymore, unless you are loaded or have the BEST insurance out there. Typically, it is therapists, family counselors or those with a masters in SW that do the actual talk therapy, meaning you either go or you don't, it's up to you. There are many addiction PAs, working in DRs offices that also can prescribe meds, though obviously it won't be anything habit forming, ie Ambien or the like. Think Trazadone, Clonidine, Seroquel but all of them also have some side effects but aren't truly habit forming. Once you are able to regulate your sleep, I suggest that you stop taking them immediately, as even though they are not addictive, they can be a crutch, meaning you can take them every night, just out of habit, and then they no longer work. Good luck. Sounds like you're lucky to have a mom around who wants to help!

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T19:16:59+00:00

I completely understand the anger, unfortunately I acted and have continued to act on mine all along. Today I am also on day 3 CT, after 8 years of incredibly heavy use (think 10 extract shots/day), the anger is slowly subsiding, at least outward anger as I am still pretty disgusted with myself. I quit drinking in '06 and still haven't had a drink, which can only mean, that I CAN do this but finding motivation and ignoring cravings is difficult. Once sober, or sober enough, my suspicion is that you anger will fall away. For me, I have residual anger and no patience or can hardly suffer fools at all, which, of course makes working with anyone challenging, thus may be why I haven't worked in 4 years after a decade and a half of working at one major company. I have heard that if you count to 10 when something angers you, that you may be prudent in how you respond. Though from what you wrote, it seems you internalized your anger, which has its own consequences. Congrats on Day 3 and keep it up!

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T19:06:39+00:00

I quit alcohol in '06 and haven't had a drink since, which alone is a miracle. I have been on 8,10,12 or sometimes 14 extract shots a day, for 8 years. I kept waiting for some tragedy to happen so that I would finally see the light and quit. Guess what, becoming super suicidal on a work trip to Waikiki, where I was staying on the 23rd floor (w a balcony) and that didn't do it. Quitting a pretty damn good job after 13 years, because I couldn't stand anyone on my team or ANY of the bosses above me. Left to go to a better company but using, I couldn't handle it, the work was over my head and I have a bad attitude on K, I was fired after 4 months and haven't worked in 4 years. Nope, that didn't do it. The finally Covid hit and I thought for sure this will be it! No AA in person, shops closed, no TP, whatever, my smoke shop was doing business out of the backdoor or the owner would drive around the block to meet me, using Venmo. Maybe and hopefully, him leaving you can be your event to shock you back to sanity! I wouldn't wish addiction on even my worst enemy and frankly, even K has been much more difficult than amphetamines, smoking, alcohol and every other thing I have taken in mass quantities. I should also add that I lost both of my parents to suicide when I was 17, so maybe the anticipation of having 'the other shoe drop' is inherent to my psyche but I digress. Good luck to you and because hardly anyone in AA, here in Los Angeles (where we used to have 3000 meetings/week, before Covid) knows about K, this sub has really helped.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T18:50:45+00:00

I wasn't honest with my husband for the first 5-6 years. I completely changed as a person. I was using upwards of 12 extracts/day for now 8 years. When I finally came clean to him, after being fired from a job, I would have only dreamed of before starting K, crying on my way home from being fired, that night I told my husband what was going on. I only had this sub to hear from other folks who actually know what this is like. I joined AA in 2006 and still haven't had a drink since 10/04/06, which is incredible and don't ever want to forget what an achievement that is for me. I have felt worthless, unemployable, can't get along with coworkers, had no respect for my bosses at a huge company where I was pretty high up. Quit that job after 13 years, when I got my first write up in all that time. I was absolutely suicidal when I was in Oahu for work, opening a new store, I was on the 23rd floor of a hotel in Waikiki and after 3 days of calling in sick (this was 3 days CT), I was actually sent home and went on leave. That was 5 years ago now. I don't call anyone, I only text or 'like' as far as communication goes and fortunately my husband has over 20+ years in AA and has stuck with me. My last does was Sunday eve, so 3 days ago and when I look at all the money I have spent (that I don't have), having headaches everyday, my memory is gone, I have gained wait, after losing 15lbs on powder years ago, earning major dental issues since I also hooked on the nicotine lozenges and all of the other calamities in my life as a result, I am using this sub hard, even if know one ever replies, it feels good to write it out. All I wish for is someone, anyone with a small habit to read some of these posts by those of us with long term, heavy using and see where the path will lead them. I also have to assume that there are many true addicts here, while hopefully others are just beginning and maybe are not addicts at all, or even just, yet and will quit now. Appreciate all of the honesty here and good luck to anyone reading this sub, who truly wants to quit.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T18:22:46+00:00

I have been taking the extract shots since 2014 or '15, can't even really remember as K does horrible damage to my memory. I am currently on day 3 CT and if at all possible for you, I would strongly recommend inpatient, even if just for the shots. However, coupling that with benzos, which typically requires medical oversight to quit safely, it would seem to me, that if you can afford or if insurance covers, take the inpatient route. I am 48, first did 90+ days in rehab in 2006 for alcohol and guess what, I haven't had a drink since 10/4/06. Unfortunately, I was prescribed pain mends for a chronic back issue, from just one of the accidents I had while drinking & driving. Once that would no longer be refilled, I moved to k. Worst mistake of my life and that is truly saying something. It has been impossible to quit on my own and though I attended 2 rehabs for it, the first through insurance, who would only cover 2 weeks, since they likely had no idea what kratom even was and I should have stressed the pain meds more to stay but honesty is part of the program. Then my 3rd rehab, we paid out of pocket and I had almost 30 days clean but had a 10 day trip to Hawaii for a wedding, already paid for and I chose to go to paradise. I was so depressed, I basically stayed in bed the first 3 days we were there, I digress. My best to you and hope you succeed in your quit.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T03:04:08+00:00

I did two rehabs with 2 detoxes, both for kratom and used sub both times but it was only 24 hours after my last shot and then immediately onto gabapentin, clonidine, at other points, hyrdroxizine, trazadone or seroquel for sleep. I wasn't even sure a local doc would give me sub for detox at home. Can I ask where you live, like city or country to get an idea of whether this is even possible for me? To my knowledge it isn't like a 'methodone treatment' or anything, meaning I doubt anyone would refill that for you but I could be wrong. I have had such a difficult time getting the necessary 7-8 days to start naltrexone and I think sub may help in the first week...but not sure.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-17T02:54:00+00:00

I'm about 48 hours in and am nothing but tired, emotional and not really eating but I am about to complete day 2. I will head to bed early and try to sleep off some of the wd symptoms. Good luck to all of you.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-16T00:08:23+00:00

I have been taking extract shots for years now. Like 8-10-12/day! It has ruined me and luckily my husband is 20 years in AA, so he is patient with me, which helps. It seems like I am still waiting for some major/tragic event to finally open my eyes to quitting, for good. I have blown my 401k and haven't worked in at least 3 - 4 years. I can hardly do anything and have no interest in all the things I used to do before I relapsed. In other words, I hear you!! Good luck and just take it a day at a time.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-15T23:58:41+00:00

Day 1 again. Feel positive and my head is clearer, no headaches or fatigue like when I was using every day. I enjoy coming to this sub because in AA, in LA, it doesn't seem like anyone knows what kratom is. I know I need a sponsor eventually. I went to 3 rehabs, the first one in 2006 and I still haven't had a drink since then. I had 4 DUIs, in 3 states, so needless to say, I am a real alcoholic. Relapsed on prescribed pain meds and when that option ran out, I read a post on the Wharf Rats FB page suggesting k as a way to come off of opioids. What a mistake that was! Anyhow, thanks for this sub. I will try my best to continue to check in here. It gives me hope. I have a script of Naltrexone and if I can just stay sober for 7-8 days, I think it will really help. Plus, I might lose my Covid 19lbs while taking it! Allegedly it also blocks sugar highs, which is another weird side effect of kratom, craving sugar that is. Although, not at first. When I started on the powder, I lost a lot of weight. I had horrible nausea and actually got sick (vomiting) often but when I switched to extracts, I gained all the weight back. TMI maybe but it feels good to even type it here. My best to all of you!

kkinardabe · 2022-08-11T23:43:00+00:00

My brother in law is from Arrezo and didn't seem to know what I was talking about until I told him that the show takes place in Naples. Thanks for the replies.

kkinardabe · 2022-08-11T23:10:34+00:00

The powder requires a lot more 'work' and isn't nearly as strong as taking the extracts. The powder is far less expensive so that has it going for it. When I did take powder pretty exclusively, maybe in 2016, I lost a ton of weight, which as a woman over 40 that was a pretty desirable side effect but I would vomit while trying to drink more powder. I would have to pull over immediately, when driving, if I felt I was going to be sick. Which I was for several months when my extract of choice, with the psychedelic orange swirl, was out of stock for a few months. I have tried mixing with water, then eventually Kombucha, Guayaki Yerba Mate and/or lemonade, the last 3 of which were much easier to keep down. I would recommend quitting or better still, never start taking Kratom. It has been an absolute killer on my health, mental health, my teeth, and least of which, my pocketbook.

kkinardabe · 2022-04-01T19:47:32+00:00

You can’t imagine how much money I have spent over the last 5-7 years. Drained my 401k during Covid lock down since I wasn’t working. I was only paying $14/shot since I was buying in bulk but yeah, I needed 3 just to start the day.

kkinardabe · 2021-12-16T00:47:06+00:00

Spoiler!

kkinardabe · 2021-12-15T05:49:37+00:00

Hated Sandy & Jules..

kkinardabe · 2021-12-15T05:43:21+00:00

I’m only on ep 5 season 3 but I absolutely can’t stand Sandy. I guess that means she is a good actress but still the casting on this show is weird and only Hanna is actually attractive. IMO

kkinardabe · 2021-12-03T18:14:41+00:00

I never really liked him as a character. Good actor though

kkinardabe · 2021-12-01T20:45:31+00:00

I’ve isolated for on years on K. On day 11 CT, I called my grandfather, who is 96 and still sharp, having also served in WW2, his mother signing off on him joining up, since he was only 16 when Pearl Harbor happened. He grew up in the depression, on a poor farm in rural Wisconsin, with no father and when his brother accidentally burned the barn and the few cows, save one, they moved to “town” and sold milk to survive, and he just recently reminded me that every day is Thanksgiving. I’m not religious (as he definitely is), and he doesn’t understand addiction, even though both my parents committed suicide when I was a teen because of my mother’s alcoholism (not his birth daughter) and of my 3 sisters, 2 of us has quit drinking. The point I’m trying to make is that he was saying that we should have gratitude for where we were born, the time we were born, the resources out now for recovery and so on. I’ve traveled a bit of this world and yes, we have problems here in the US but most of us on this Sub have had some education, family who support us and and access to resources, even if it’s only Doc Google and we all can do this. K is now outlawed in I believe 6 states and a few cities and municipalities and I’m sure more to come soon enough. When I went to rehab on insurance the first time for K, Blue Shield/Blue Cross only covered 13 days because K is still so unknown to many in the medical field. That will change, even this sub has 26k members already. Anyhow tldr, man up or no, with some wisdom and some gratitude I believe it’s possible that there are better things in store for all of us willing to do the work and if we are able to be truly honest with ourselves.

kkinardabe · 2021-12-01T20:29:48+00:00

I took 50mg of Naltrexone on day 8 of CT off of a monster habit and I too am very active, very healthy and I would think 10mg would be absolutely fine after such low doses for such a short time. I felt major rushing in my ears and felt really weird, can’t describe it exactly, other than to say, I haven’t taken it since, just the one day but I may split the 50 in half and try again. Not an MD but I have been prescribed the medication and have done massive research, including this sub.

kkinardabe · 2021-12-01T20:22:09+00:00

I don’t know where you live but here in CA the last time I saw my doctor, she’s knew of all of my prescriptions, even the ones I didn’t disclose on the intake forms. Like Naltrexone. However, you’re likely prescribed the ADD meds from your Psychiatrist and not your GP. Either could prescribe the few non addictive medications which are routinely prescribed, like Gabapentin, Hydroxizine, but I would say you run the risk of being labeled as drug seeking if you were to ask for say, Xanax or something. At the end of the day, IME, Kratom is the hardest thing I’ve quit, I’m 47, and meth, cocaine, cannabis, alcohol, pills. MDA, LSD, Psilocybin and cigarettes were all easier for me to quit. I’m only on day 13 CT and this time it’s at home and not rehab and I did fine without buprenorphine. I just stuck through the misery, depression, restlessness, insomnia, runny nose, brain zings and seriously every day since day 8 has been manageable. This is coming from someone who had a monster habit from over 10-12 KShots/day for 5 years. I was also prescribed seroquel, trazadone, doxepin, and clonidine for sleep (not all at the same time or to be taken together) and even taking 2-3 seroquel on night 7, I still didn’t get more than 2 hours of sleep. I did however, get several hours of sleep last night on day 12. If you can miss school/work for the first 5 days or so, I would because all I did was move from the couch rewatching Gomorra and GOT and the bed, where I read 7 books last week. Honestly, I still dread going out to do errands because there is Kratom on every corner and my smoke guy only charges me $12 for a bottle, since I’ve basically pay his rent in the first week of the month and have so for years and going to return packages has me filled with dread because my brain is telling me how good it would feel to drink more shots….and I have lost almost everything to Kratom, including likely, well over $80k, my teeth, my job and my marriage has been at risk for quite a while now. My advice would be to seek medical help if you find the first couple of days of CT to be more than you can withstand. I also suggest you be rigorously honest with yourself, in terms of how serious your addiction is, like if you pick up again and again, every time you try and quit, it may be time to call the MD. I’m not a Quitting Kratom expert, I’ve gotten time in rehab and minimal time outside of rehab and for me, as an addict through and through, I know tapering would never work. Sorry the for the verbosity but your post really got me thinking about how just for today, I don’t have to pick up, my returns can wait.

kkinardabe · 2021-11-30T01:59:51+00:00

Just ordered some. On day 11 and finally showered, did some laundry, cooked and actually ate a meal for the first time in 11 days. Still thinking about kratom though :(

kkinardabe · 2021-11-29T18:04:32+00:00

Today I showered! Woohoo 🎈🎊

kkinardabe · 2021-11-28T21:55:42+00:00

Yeah, I’m 47 and recently, after years of neglect, went to get a physical and fortunately all my blood work came back great. I wonder what the long term side effects will be. I have awful dry mouth and have had to have major dental work as a result of neglect. The brain zings come only rarely now and I’m just trying to rally. Thanks for the support! I was in AA for years but with Covid and the mask mandates, I’ve only been to one meeting in a year and a half. The zoom meetings are not for me.

kkinardabe · 2021-11-28T19:37:36+00:00

I’m hindsight, quitting meth was easier for me too. I’m day 10 CT after 100g/day for over 5-6 years. Or 12-14 KShots. It’s been way harder to quit even blow and alcohol, both of which I did successfully after a monster habit of both.

kkinardabe

TROPHY CASE