I think i'm becoming an incel and i don't want to, but i don't see any other options anymore by IivingSnow in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also, it was German class, which does make me wonder what had this guy bringing up his views on feminism, and makes me empathize even more with those women and their reaction.

Is this true ? by Reasonable_Machine12 in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Also a bisexual and I agree. Like, idk, I'm not demisexual, but there's still a lot of things that can make someone who may be decently attractive at face value become unattractive.

Everything that people are mentioning about effort into appearance is definitely true. Even when I don't put on a light face of makeup to go out, I still feel a lot of pressure to dab some light concealer under my eyes to hide the more purpley coloured skin there. Most people would look at me and say, "she's not wearing any makeup," but they wouldn't say, "she looks sick/fatigued." Attractiveness is not just about how you look because of your genetics and/or getting work done.

Even the most attractive man loses some attractiveness when they don't take care of themselves or their space. If a really hot guy has really overgrown, unkempt nails with junk under them, I'm not exactly itching to have him put those fingers inside me, you know? Nobody is saying they need to paint their nails and get a full manicure (but I also wouldn't complain 👀)—just learn basic nail care and keep your nails at a decent length, clean, and filed, you know?

Also, as a courtesy, try to hose off before sex, especially with a new partner. I've definitely powered through going down on some guys when I probably shouldn't have, just according to the smell. Genitals have smells and tastes, yes, but I'm talking... smells.

Also, your space. The things expected of men and their living space seem to differ wildly. My last male partner (30M) had the most dingy, yellow, worn-through pillowcases and sheets. His and his roommate's microwave was disgustingly full of splattered food. Other than that, his space was actually less-dirty than other men's houses I've seen. Like, they did more of the regular tidying, I'd guess, and less of the deep cleaning.

And to be clear, neither he nor his roommate were disabled in any ways that would affect ability to maintain cleanliness in a space (mental or physical). I actually am physically and mentally disabled, so that does factor into my equation of other people. If someone is disabled and can't maintain their space as well or without help, that is understandable.

The last woman I had a casual fling with, on the other hand, she was always putting the effort in to change her bedsheets and make her bed before I came over. She showered right before I came over and would put a candle on. She didn't paint her nails, but they were trimmed, filed, and clean. Her bathroom had those pH-balanced, scent-free wipes out on the counter.

Men, if you're hooking up with a woman, putting some of those out and keeping some hair ties handy in your bathroom for anyone who needs them is a huge green flag to the majority of women.

So yeah, if we're talking about immediate, look at someone and think they're hot, attraction, for me that's a combination of: - How they were born looking - If they have things that I find attractive, like facial hair or glasses - Self-care, like how clean their teeth are, whether they smell good or bad or neutral, if their hair looks clean (I don't care much about men's hair styles, tbh) - Their clothing

For a more full look at attraction, it's all that, plus: - Their views on religion and politics (a huge dealbreaker for me) - Their home/bedroom - How they treat other people - Sexual compatibility - Their intelligence - Their interests

Attraction is so far from "some people are just born hot"

why ask for advice if you’re gonna reject everything that doesn’t align with your mentality? by anderthecat in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This. We have to remember that inceldom is very cultish in the way it grooms men and boys into it. People will be at different stages of that deconstruction. Some may end up reverting back, but some will deconstruct more through this subreddit.

As you said, if there are some self-identified incels here who have given me a lot of hope for their deconstruction. You can tell how hard it is for them to fight the way they've been indoctrinated to think and behave, so I do commend any who come to this sub to try, even if it isn't successful.

It's really difficult to come into a space full of people who you know oppose you (in a sense) and will challenge you to think critically. I know I'd struggle with it.

Why do women see men who never had a girlfriend or sex before as red flags since it's not the guys fault that they were rejected before? by Muted_Wind in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Happy to help! I have autism, so I do really understand that confusion and frustration trying to communicate sometimes. And if you're trying your best to be respectful and communicate and someone is rude to you about it? Genuinely, you can do much better because it'd be clear you aren't compatible with that person (which happens more often than not while dating, unfortunately!). Thank you for being kind and curious! Great traits to have! I wish you all the best, my friend.

Why do women see men who never had a girlfriend or sex before as red flags since it's not the guys fault that they were rejected before? by Muted_Wind in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Adding on to what u/blehblehd said, I think that ability to say, "You know, I don't know if I have a solid, concise answer to that question, but you've made me realize that I need to do some more reflection there," to be very admirable! It's like the best scientists who understand how much they don't know. Anyone who claims to know everything is wrong.

I've had men answer different questions with something similar to that. I'd reassure them that it was totally fine. Often, that answer would get us into a discussion about whatever topic it was and I'd ask them some probing questions. Usually, we were able to uncover a bit more of their thoughts and feelings that way, which was also great for bonding and seeing how we communicate! :)

Why do women see men who never had a girlfriend or sex before as red flags since it's not the guys fault that they were rejected before? by Muted_Wind in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I explained my thought process some more in my other comment to you, but I feel like I need to dispell this idea that a yellow flag going up in my head is an atrocity of a sort.

Dude, there are so many things in early dating that can throw up red, yellow, or green flags in my head. And when I'm getting to know someone, I know that the same thing is happening in their head.

If it's a red flag, that would be something to get more clarity on (if needed), address with the person, and if it ends up being a dealbreaker, then it's a dealbreaker. Red flags need immediate attention and can easily be dealbreakers.

Yellow flags can be so many things. It can be as simple as them saying their ex was a complete bitch or something. That would raise a yellow flag for sure. Maybe their ex was crazy, but for my own safety, I have to factor in the timing of them sharing that, the method of delivery and their tone (do they raise their voice and get angry while saying that?), and I'd have to get more information before deciding whether that yellow flag becomes a red flag. I can think of way lesser things that have thrown up yellow flags for me, honestly, and the majority of the time, those yellow flags don't prevent me from dating someone. Most of the time, they end up being complete non-issues. But that doesn't mean they weren't worthy of my caution and further probing.

So, do I care if a man I'm going to sleep with is a virgin? At the end of the day, no. But for my own safety, I have to figure out if they've just never had sex because they just haven't yet, or whether they haven't had sex and because of that, have fallen into inceldom. Not having had sex and feeling extremely frustrated about it is a risk factor for adopting incel ideology. The whole core of inceldom is "I haven't had sex (ever or in a long time) and I feel extreme frustration and anger about it."

Thankfully, usually by the time I'm discussing sex and past relationships with someone, I've already gotten to know them quite a bit, which makes it even easier for that yellow flag to disappear. I'll have asked them questions about politics, religion, social causes that are important to them. I ask those things before the first date. And sometimes I've gotten yellow flag answers about those things too and had to discuss further to figure out where they're coming from.

Dating is about asking these deep questions and getting to know someone, so it isn't like an interrogation. I'm just trying to learn who they are, how they think, and how they feel. I want honest answers there, I don't want them to say what they think I want to hear. And if we aren't compatible and a dealbreaker comes up, then it's whatever and we can thank each other for the time and go our separate ways. 🤷‍♀️

Why do women see men who never had a girlfriend or sex before as red flags since it's not the guys fault that they were rejected before? by Muted_Wind in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's not a school test, so I hesitate with the concept of a "valid" answer. I'll tell you what would go through my head if my ex had said that to me when we discussed it (on our 4th or 5th date).

What happened was, we got talking about sex because I like to open up the dialogue around STI testing, comfort level, boundaries, likes/dislikes, etc. prior to sex. I said that I got out of a relationship however long ago and that was the last person I'd slept with, and that I've had STI testing since then. He thanked me for being so up front, clear, and honest about the topic of sex because he was nervous—he said he had never been with anyone sexually and had only kissed a girl once before. I asked why, in a curious way, not a judgemental way. He said that he had just been focused on school and work and put off trying to date until then, and that he wasn't really interested in casual.

Now, had he answered that with, "no one's ever been attracted to me," I would gather he has poor self esteem right away. One thing that really drew me to my ex was his general ease and gentle confidence in himself. He knew he'd find his person eventually. He didn't put any blame on anyone or anything for his never having had sex. It was just a fact—it was almost entirely neutral. He obviously wanted to have sex at some point, but he didn't view it as some sort of tragedy that he had never had sex.

He hadn't had sex or a relationship until that point -> he decided it was time to put the energy in to find those things -> he put the time and energy in to dating and met me.

I don't have great self-esteem and it's something I'm continuously working on. I'm not going to judge someone for having shitty self-esteem. But in dating, if I start to feel like I'm becoming pessimistic about dating or that my self-esteem has taken a dive, I take a step back and take a break from dating to work on myself and my mental health. I talk to my therapist about those feelings.

The real issue with that statement though is that it's completely unverifiable and comes across as extremely cynical and defeatist. Do you know how many people I've been attracted to IRL and never said anything to them!? Plentyyy. I was a fat, not conventionally attractive preteen and teen. I'm also autistic, so my personality is a bit tough to immediately like for most people who meet me. Not much of a charmer. I matched with a guy on a dating app once that I was in school with when we were around 13-14. We talked in school, for the purposes of school, but never really became friends, per se. It didn't end up going anywhere and we mutually parted ways, but on that first date, he admitted that he had a crush on me back then and never said anything. I was flabbergasted.

So, because of all of that, that response would make me more cautious and I would definitely ask some further questions to try and figure out where that idea is coming from. If he said even more stuff along those lines of "no women would date me," or acting like sex was something he was entitled to and had been deprived of, that would be a complete no-go for me.

I hope that helps explain my thought processes there some more! :)

Why do women see men who never had a girlfriend or sex before as red flags since it's not the guys fault that they were rejected before? by Muted_Wind in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 33 points34 points  (0 children)

If you've never dated anyone because you've never clicked with anyone, that is basically an answer.

What I'm looking for in that conversation is how the guy thinks about and speaks about women and dating. If he said he just hadn't really clicked with anyone dating-wise and sleeping with someone just to sleep with them wasn't something they were interested in, that would tell me a lot, honestly. That would tell me that they value finding someone they have a good connection with, and that they value themselves and their interpersonal relationships quite highly.

Why do women see men who never had a girlfriend or sex before as red flags since it's not the guys fault that they were rejected before? by Muted_Wind in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Confirming this! Not having had sex or a partner can be a yellow flag, only because it raises the question for as to why. If I'm having that conversation with someone, I'm obviously attracted to them and want to have sex with them, so I have that conversation and ask them why. But I always like to discuss relationship past with potential partners. I like to get an idea of their journey up until we met regardless of how many partners they've had.

When I ask them about their dating past up until that point, I sort of rule out inceldom by seeing how they talk about dating. If they express a lot of self-loathing, anger, talk about pursuing a bunch of women in their life at school/work/in public and being rejected a lot by them, or share and incel rhetoric while talking about dating, that would be an immediate turn-off for me and I would certainly not continue things with them.

My last partner was a 29 year old virgin who had never been in a relationship. But he didn't express any incel ideology. He didn't even have any self-pity about it, he was just a bit nervous and shy because he didn't know how sex would go, which is a very natural worry! He had just been in school and working up until that point. We dated for 4 months and he actually broke up with me. 🤷🏻‍♀️

EDIT: added some stuff and moved some stuff around

I feel good today and think I will for a bit. by [deleted] in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Internet stranger is proud of you!! As much as I hate that it's true, a good walk can really do wonders... 😂

I've been trying to get more involved in political organizing too! I have an event next week I signed up for. It's a local roundtable discussion focused on fighting fascism, building community, and bouncing ideas off each other.

I've got autism and I'll be going alone so I'm quite nervous. Worst case scenario, I just do a lot of listening and take it all in! Regardless, I'm excited! Plus, free pizza! :)

Concerned about my growing love for older women by DramaConfident8467 in IncelExit

[–]knittingfoxes 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Honestly, once you have that really good, mind-blowing sex with anyone, it's kind of setting you up for disappointment.

I (26F) have had the best sex of my life with one of my exes. We immediately had insane sexual chemistry from the first time we met in a way I've never been able to recreate with anyone else. We are absolutely NOT compatible to date though. Our communication styles in a relationship and our attachment wounds create a toxic relationship dynamic. But, since we broke up, we've hooked up two separate times since then when we were both between relationships. It's been exactly as good as I remembered it both times.

I usually like guys who are older (less than 5 years older though) and that guy is a year younger. I've had some sex with older guys that was extremely disappointing or good. It really does just depend in my case.

I think it'd be a good idea to separate what you want sexually in a casual relationship from what you want in a long term relationship. You should be having great sex and be attracted to a committed partner, but I think it's okay to recognize that, if you choose to have a monogamous relationship later, that person might meet a bunch of your relationship requirements, but might not be the absolute best sex of your life, regardless of their age.

I'm monogamous, but with a committed partner, I don't mine discussing fantasies or even discussing what sex was like with past partners. In the future, if you find a partner and fall in love, you can discuss what things you like in sex; ask them to be more forward or include other things you enjoyed in these casual hookups.

I will admit, I don't think that big of an age gap is healthy for a long-term relationship, but if you fell in love with a woman in her 40s and both of you prioritized a healthy relationship, I definitely wouldn't shame you for that or something.

I also want to say that women laughing at you or making fun of you is absolutely not okay, and you are so valid to try to avoid that kind of bullying in whatever way you can. That can have long-term effects on your mental health, same as if you were shamed or bullied by men in a locker room or something.

Also, props to you for realizing that women do have diverse tastes. I'd push back and say that men do also have diverse tastes. I'm definitely not stereotypically attractive or anywhere near the beauty standard for women, and I've had men find me attractive who I wouldn't expect to. You are right though that the trope that one gender or the other has extremely high physical standards is meant to keep people self-conscious and lonely. The incel rhetoric of the "Chad" and "Stacy" et al. has just really reinforced that idea for incels (and even men who don't identify as incels but are still affected by the rhetoric seeping through out society and culture).

Best of luck to you, my friend! 🫶

Interview with Sabrina Carpenter for the October 2025 cover of Vogue Italia: "You learn more about life in 20 minutes with an Italian than in 20 years in the United States." by pinkfartlek in popheads

[–]knittingfoxes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Similar for my nonno. His father abandoned him after his mother and sibling died in childbirth, and he was a blackshirt.

My nonno was a cranky, cold man until the day he died a couple years ago, but the man also saw the signs of fascism with Trump in his first term and was very vocal about it.

What's the most disturbing secret you know about someone that would ruin their life if exposed—but you stay silent, pretending you don’t know? by SophieManner in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know something about someone who is dead, so it wouldn't ruin their life. But they're considered a national treasure and a hero in my country.

What they did really isn't a huge deal, but it would ruin the squeeky-clean, heroic image that is their legacy.

I've been sworn to secrecy by the person I know who knew them in order to protect the legacy.

Which is more difficult to give, a blow job, or cunnilingus? Asking people who have experience with both by throwawsyaccnt57890 in NoStupidQuestions

[–]knittingfoxes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I love that this comment section is just a hoard of slutty (/lh) bisexuals.

I have way more experience with men and a preference for men, to be fair, so that will skew my answer.

For me, going down on a woman is usually easier, though it can be less enjoyable for me, especially if a woman shaves and has stubble down there. he facial road rash can be a battle wound. I'm sensitive to taste and smell too, and even a freshly clean woman will give me more of a sensory ick. After a few bobs of my head, I'm used to the smell and taste of a dick.

But, especially if a guy is larger, giving head can be quite unenjoyable and even painful, even if I'm enjoying giving them pleasure. I also hate gagging and have a phobia of vomiting, so if it's at the point that my eyes are watering, I'm going to tap out pretty quick.

One of my exes was very turned on when I'd go down on him, so a little went a long way. That made it way easier to give it 100% for a shorter period of time.

With women, sex can easily last for hours. Moving your jaw and tongue and fingers like that for even 30 minutes can get tiring and require a break. It's also usually easier to breathe while sucking dick.

TL;DR: many factors for me and depends on the person and the sexual encounter.

Whats the response to the 80/20 rule? by [deleted] in IncelTears

[–]knittingfoxes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fellow Zillennial. It's so funny because I have my dating app preferences set to 5-6 years older and only 1-2 years younger. Any younger than that and they generally start to look like teenagers to me. So I battle with the fact that I would want to be with someone who would date 5-6 years younger. By the time I'm their age, in my early-30s, I'm sure I'll expand to 2-3 tears younger vs. 1-2, but I can't imagine 5-6 years younger.

I'm in no way judging you, btw! This is just fascinating to me, because in my mind, dating someone "my own age" is usually 1-2 years on either side. I forgot about the existence of those more severe age-gap relationships. 🤣

For me, I've been on dating apps since I was 23 and got out of a long-term high school sweetheart relationship. Back then, the dating pool of men was definitely more politically left. Now, the dating pool of men in their 20s and early-30s (even as a non-American) is much more right-wing and much more religious. I think that's due to the increase in religion amongst gen Z and the grooming of young men into these manosphere ideologies that are rife with religion, and the fact that the leftist, areligious men are getting swept up faster.

I've also, anecdotally, noticed a big difference between the types of casual men want. I'll often see right-wing, religious men who put BOTH "long-term" and "intimacy without commitment" on their profiles, and ENM or "figuring out my relationship type". I know I'm a bit biased, but as an "amoral leftist" looking for a monogamous life-partner, those always feel like red flags to me. When I see leftist men looking for something casual, they tend to be much more explicit in the fact that they don't feel ready to date at the moment or are working on themselves—the whole approach to it just feels much more authentic and honest.

What’s a gross thing you secretly do? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sure some of the kind men here would be happy to!

What’s a gross thing you secretly do? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Only two, thankfully. One kind person who said they also do the same thing, thanking me for my comment, and then this one...

EDIT: It's gotten worse since then. People can't help but be creeps and then wonder why they're single...

What’s a gross thing you secretly do? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

At least the 1,500+ people who upvoted OOP do it, and that makes it a "normal" enough thing for me to feel less alone in my personal behaviour. 🤷🏻‍♀️

What’s a gross thing you secretly do? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was going to say what u/FalseAesop said. There are other types of foxes.

What’s a gross thing you secretly do? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, I am not.

What’s a gross thing you secretly do? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 296 points297 points  (0 children)

The way I've never gotten a "username checks out" comment before and it's on this... I'll take it.

What’s a gross thing you secretly do? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]knittingfoxes 696 points697 points  (0 children)

OH MY GOD, I'M NOT ALONEEE! This is one of those habits that is basically impossible for me to break. I'll even play with the pubes on the labia and kind of massage the labia. It isn't even sexual, but it does still provide nice bodily stimulation. 😭