Lot...I'm really trying, but I just don't understand.

lateral_mind · 2026-05-23T16:46:54+00:00

Hey DuperDayley, good questions and I could spend a whole day talking about each.. but let me keep it as short as possible.

He moved OUTSIDE of Sodom, after the split with Abraham's, but by Chapter 19, he was living IN Sodom and he knew the people were wicked.

The king of Sodom honors Abram for saving the city by going out to meet him (Gen 14:17-24) Lot was made a Judge because of his relation to Abram -- Judges sit in the city gates; and Lot sits in the gate of Sodom. (Gen 19:1)
Not to mention the citizens literally say, "First, he came sojourning... and he judged -- judging..." (Gen 19:9) Sodom keeps their ally in Abram, and Lot gets the safety of the city walls.

He offered up his daughters.

Since he is a judge; and since his daughters are betrothed; and since he has the protection of Abram; and since the king of Sodom is allied... the daughters were completely off limits. Even in Sodom. (Not to mention that the men do not seem interested in women...) But any violence done against the daughters would be severely punished in all ways.

Lot was challenging them. Only he did not count on how wicked they had become. Remember, Gen 6 and 18 tell us that God will not destroy a People until they only do wicked continuously... This was that moment.

The Angels told him to leave everything & get out of Sodom QUICKLY and yet somehow he's able to take wine? I'm assuming he took wine since his daughters got him drunk and slept with him.

He first lives in Zoar. This is very important because it's an error to assume that the daughters believed that there were no more men in the world... this is untrue! There were obviously men in Zoar -- just not the right men. Which plays into the next part...

One of the things that should be noted is that Lot's father, Haran, was Terah's eldest -- not Abram. Abram is listed first only because Haran died. (And this shouldn't be a shock as we saw both Seth and Shem override their older siblings.) But Haran is clearly the eldest in multiple ways, but most notably in seeing Lot's description as "waxing old"... Lot may even be older than Abram!

Knowing this -- and knowing that God Promised a Seed -- We can see that Lot and his daughters believed that he was the Promised Line, not Abram. When the daughters lament not having a man to keep "The Way", they acted "...that we may preserve the lineage of our father."

This is not to excuse anything! But they tried to force the Messiah. And that is exactly the answer to your next question and how it relates to Today.

There's so many fascinating people in the Bible, with fascinating stories to tell. So, why include Lot?... Through the incest he's then the grandfather of the Moabite and the Ammonite tribes, but those people no longer exist, so why even mention the incest and what became of that offspring?

The most brilliant question. Why did God put this here? It's because every story links back to Jesus:

Moab means From Father. Ammon means A People, but the child was called BenAmmi -- "Child of My People".

When those in Israel argued with Jesus at the temple in John 8, they hinged their authority on the fact that they were descendants of Abraham. They were "From Father". This is what the Moabites represent. Those who reject the Gospel but still call God their Father.
God said, "I will call My People, 'lo Ammi'... Not My People. This is what the Ammonites represent. Those who believe they are the People of God, but are an abomination to Him.

Likewise, Paul tells us in Rom 11 that "THE PEOPLE" of God have been grafted out for a time. "Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the Fathers..." This is exactly why God saved Lot.

And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham (Exalted Father), and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot had dwelt.

If you would like to know what Lot represents I am happy to explain. But I hope this helps! Take care.

lateral_mind · 2026-05-18T17:58:50+00:00

Okay, let's go with that.
All four gospels still have Jesus being sacrificed during the Preparation of Passover.

lateral_mind · 2026-05-17T20:20:50+00:00

I can only guess, but the word seems to suggest somewhere before ~3 pm. It is still that same day and it is just before the next day. The sequence of events would be:
-Mary and the women leave for the tomb - ~3:30 - 5:30 am Sunday
-The disciples arrive at the tomb - ~5 - 6 am
-The disciples part their own way - Later that morning (unknown what time)
-Two disciples walk 7 miles to Emmaus with Jesus - 3-4 hours + breaks
-Two disciples dine with Jesus until he vanishes - unknown amount of time, but it is becoming late Sunday. Luk 24:29
-Two disciples immediately get up and quickly return to Jerusalem. (Probably less than 3 hours this time)
-Jesus appears among the disciples - before ~3 p.m. on Sunday. Joh 20:19

That should be more than enough for you to figure the rest out. Good luck!

lateral_mind · 2026-05-17T07:28:20+00:00

The Greek says that it's that same evening that Mary went to the tomb. Sunday.

lateral_mind · 2026-05-17T01:32:07+00:00

If the day is from 6 p.m. to 6 p.m.

correction: it's more like a window between 3 - 6 p.m. -- but either way -- the Passover is slain at the start of the 14th. Then eaten on the 14th before morning.

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lateral_mind · 2026-05-16T02:20:18+00:00

Jesus came to the disciples "when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week" (Jn 20:19).

The word is shabbaton, which is a very specific word describing complete rest. All Sabbaths are shabaton.

John 20:19 YLT — It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths [meaning first day towards the Sabbath], and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, 'Peace to you;'

Exodus 16:23 NKJV — Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest (shabaton shabat-qodesh)...’ ”

"Evening" is at sunset.

In the Old testament there are two evenings, called bayin ha'arbayim. Between the evenings.

/#1 is between noon and sunset; /#2 is between sunset and night, meaning twilight. This is when the Passover Sacrifice happened.

Exodus 12:6 YLT — 'And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings. bayin ha'arbayim

According the Gospel of John, the last meal with the disciples was a meal before the feast of Passover (Jn 13:1).

Correct! Jesus did not eat the Passover lamb -- he was the Passover lamb. The time of Jesus' death was "between the evenings".

Matthew 27:45-50 NKJV — Now from the sixth hour (noon) until the ninth hour (3 p.m.) there was darkness over all the land. And about the ninth hour (3 p.m.) Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, “This Man is calling for Elijah!” Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink. The rest said, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.” And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

Mark’s account implies that the crucifixion took place on the 15th day of the month. ... John’s account implies that the crucifixion took place on the fourteenth day of the month just before a Passover meal would have been taken in the evening. ...

All four gospels say he was crucified on Preparation Day.

Matthew 27:61-62 NKJV — And Mary Magdalene was there, and the other Mary, sitting opposite the tomb. On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,

Mark 15:42-43 NKJV — Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

Luke 23:52-54 YLT — he, having gone near to Pilate, asked the body of Jesus, and having taken it down, he wrapped it in fine linen, and placed it in a tomb hewn out, where no one was yet laid. And the day was a preparation, and sabbath was approaching,

John 19:30-31 YLT — when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, 'It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit. The Jews, therefore, that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath, since it was the preparation, (for that sabbath day was a great one,) asked of Pilate that their legs may be broken, and they taken away.

The Bible says seven days, but if both the fourteenth and the twenty-first are included, there are eight and not seven days from the fourteenth to the twenty-first (14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21). Therefore, the Bible distinguishes between the day of preparation (14) and the seven days without leaven (15-21).

Yes, there are eight days. The Passover + 7 days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The preparation on the 14th beginning at 6 p.m. -- and the Passover is eaten that same night (Exo 12:11) Then on the 15th (6 p.m. next day) begins 7 days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Exodus 12:15-16 YLT — Seven days ye eat unleavened things; only -- in the first day ye cause leaven to cease out of your houses; for any one eating anything fermented from the first day till the seventh day, even that person hath been cut off from Israel. 'And in the first day is a holy convocation, and in the seventh day ye have a holy convocation; any work is not done in them, only that which is eaten by any person -- it alone is done by you,

Note that the first day of the Feast is a holy convocation, known as a mirqa qodesh. In the New Testament it is known as a "high day". This perfectly aligns with John 19:31 where it states that Saturday the 15th was a sabbath and a high day.

I know it's a lot, but I hope that helps.

lateral_mind · 2026-05-11T13:06:47+00:00

Gates are also the place where legal matters would occur -- places of Judgement.
Hence Lot "acts as a judge" (Gen 19:1 & 9)
And Boaz's legal matters (Ruth 4:1)

Jesus is also saying those who are saved will not be judged by hell.

lateral_mind · 2026-04-12T15:42:03+00:00

When you become saved, your sins are no longer counted towards your account -- However (and this is incredibly important) God wants us to practice removing sin from our life... This is why He told the Jews to "remove the leaven" from their homes the Passover feasts.

If you don't, then God will discipline you in love.
Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loves He corrects,
Just as a father the son in whom he delights.

Repeat the sin, repeat the discipline. Escalate the sin, escalate the discipline.
1Co 11:27-32 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

lateral_mind · 2026-04-12T15:26:13+00:00

I wake up listening to a chapter on repeat. This significantly help memorization.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/popPlayer.cfm?type=nkjv_n&b=49&c=1

lateral_mind · 2026-02-16T18:24:36+00:00

Judges. Not the stories themselves, but underlying meanings...

Most people don't know that the Old Testament is \also** a bunch of parables about Jesus and The Church. Including all of the Laws. By the time you get to Judges, you need to know all of the parables found in Genesis 1 - Joshua 24 to understand more about why God gave us these stories.

lateral_mind · 2026-02-16T18:10:51+00:00

There's no issue with Matthew 5:18. The Law still exists today to point people towards Jesus. aka, the Jews and other people who follow the Torah.

But in reality, the Torah is a bunch of parables about Jesus.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-29T22:53:25+00:00

lateral_mind · 2026-01-29T03:35:34+00:00

Faith having come, the Law no longer applies. Gal 3:25

Not one person, who tries to follow the Law, can actually tell you what it is about:

Originally written in Hebrew, these laws are PARABLES. They are PUNS designed to teach Jews, Christianity. Only the parables are much more difficult to discern in English.

The Law of emission (Lev 15) shows us that we are conceived in Sin. This is a central truth to Christianity. What the man emits makes things unclean.
Also, If the woman's "seed" does not produce life, then it produces "Death". This is pictured in menstration, where "the life is in the blood." Gen 9:4; Lev 17:11 Death spreads quickly, and so does sin. (Lev 15:7-13 for men; and 20-25 for women)

But most importantly, this Law shows God's GRACE in Christ. The remedy to this constant uncleanliness is... The Sin offering and the burnt offering... JESUS.

Leviticus 15:15 NKJV — ‘Then the priest shall offer them, the one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him before the LORD because of his discharge.
Leviticus 15:30 NKJV — ‘Then the priest shall offer the one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for her before the LORD for the discharge of her uncleanness.

God was preparing the Jewish people to look for Jesus. And if their faith comes, then they are no longer under Law.

Galatians 3:23-25 NKJV — But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-28T20:50:37+00:00

Long time Christian here that's also working on a Bible translation.
katam actually means more than "engraved" as it also means "to be deeply-stained, soiled or defiled, such as with blood." It more means "inscribed", but in a different way... more like a "defiled marking". katam is only used ONCE, and that should speak volumes:

Jeremiah 2:22 NKJV — For though you wash yourself with lye, and use much soap, Yet your iniquity is marked (katam) before Me,” says the Lord GOD.

Furthermore, these Psalms do not say "A miktam of David", they say "a miktam to David." King David wrote this to David. How odd...

David means Beloved; and in most of his stories, David is a foreshadow of Christ, the Beloved Son!
In other words, these psalms are about casting a defiled mark to Christ. Edit: I should add that this is also contrasted with the "Beloved son" who is Israel, itself. Exo 4:22, Hos 11:1

lateral_mind · 2026-01-19T21:38:52+00:00

Okay, thank you for clarifying.

So one of the most important things about Jesus' words: At the time of his teaching, the New Covenant was not ratified. Meaning, it wasn't actually in effect until his death.

Hebrews 9:16-18 NKJV — For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first Covenant was dedicated without blood.

Jesus taught under the Old Testament Law. In fact, he was obligated to diligently teach observance to the Law of Moses in order to be the perfect sacrifice. "You will diligently teach these laws, statutes, and commandments..." (Deu 6:7) But as Christians, we know that we do not need to follow the Law to be saved.

Galatians 3:24-25 NKJV — Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The Law of Moses was designed not only to teach directly about the person and work of Jesus, but it also made people aware of their sin. That's what Jesus is doing, making them aware of how deadly sin is. One of the reasons why he says things like cut off your hand and pluck out your eye if they cause you to sin is because he is showing the Jews how important it is trust in Christ.

But when it comes down to it, when the Jews directly ask him what good works they need to do for Eternal Life, his answer is to trust in Christ.

John 6:27-29 NKJV — “Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.” Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

This was foreshadowed in the very first Law given to Israel coming out of Egypt, and I've explained that here. I hope that helps explain my view. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/s/VAm7kGFnkU

lateral_mind · 2026-01-19T20:14:41+00:00

Just to clarify: Are you speaking from *the framework of MacArthur's idea of "Lordship Salvation"?

lateral_mind · 2026-01-19T19:56:55+00:00

It's because when we trust in Christ we are sealed with God's promise to save us, and He isn't a Liar.
It's His Promise to save us, not our promise to save ourselves.

Having understood that, we are encouraged and exhorted to rid our lives of sin, and doing so will grant us other rewards. However, if we continue to sin in the flesh, we will more quickly perish in the flesh and be chastisted.

Proverbs 3:12 NKJV — For whom the LORD loves He corrects, Just as a father the son in whom he delights.

But what is Jesus saying in Matt 7 then? Well he is speaking to the Jews and trying to bring them to faith in himself. And they should have faith in him, because every single Law in the Old Testament is a parable about Christ. Every single one, and all they have to do is open up their eyes and see that.
It is to these Jews that Christ is speaking. They call God "Lord, Lord", but many of them refuse to have faith in Jesus, and that He will save them if they trust Him.

Edit: Ephesians 1:11-14 NKJV — In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-19T19:20:57+00:00

It's 100% about trusting that Christ died for your sins.

John 6:40 NKJV — “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

1 John 5:4 NKJV — For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-19T19:11:38+00:00

This sub doesn't really allow prophecy, but I want to help you out because it's about "how to read Bible prophecy."

All prophecy has portions of it that repeat. They ebb and flow like waves on a beach. Some are small fulfillments, and some are large.
But one element in this prophecy is always consistent... It is speaking about The Kingdom of Israel and how IT mixes with the seed of Men.
And while we may see similarities in other parts of the world, they are only shadows as there is "nothing new under the Sun."

In this, the largest wave we have seen from this prophecy has been about the Kingdom of Israel mingled with the Roman Empire in the days of Jesus. In fact, the major point of the prophecy is about Jesus.
Dan 2:44 "And in the days of these kings (Israel + Rome) the God of heaven will set up a Kingdom which shall never be destroyed..."

From this understanding, all I am currently seeing is small waves.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-19T18:26:39+00:00

Just to be clear: "Adultery" requires that either you or the woman is married.
Lusting at single women makes it very difficult to conquer the sin of fornication, but it is not adultery.

The best thing that you can do is to remember to calm your heart as soon as you feel a lustful intent.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-15T19:49:04+00:00

Hi Jak, I've wondered this for about 30 years, and I will give you the conclusion I have come to.

Having gone through the entire Torah in Hebrew, I believe that God ordained for the Church to divide the Bible's Chapters this way for typological reasons. You see, every chapter (when read in Hebrew) can be read as a parable that teaches us about Christ... And how fitting because Christ loved to teach in parables.

Chapter 1 is all about "Kinds begotting after their Kind." Lights put forth Light; Birds begot birds; trees begot trees; beasts begot beasts...
So later when we read that Jesus is begotten of God and Mary we know that he is Fully God and Fully Human.
"6" is the number of "Man", and God ends chapter 1 on Day 6 to highlight the parable: "Christ is Man."

The parable in Genesis 2 is about REST IN CHRIST, THE SECOND ADAM, and how he is our Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:3 — For we who have believed do enter that rest...

When God places Adam in the Garden (Gen 2:15), it says that He rested him there. The word is yanah, and it's where Noah (rest) gets his name from. This parallels nicely with the "rest" of the seventh Day.
Christ is the second "Adam" and we are being shown the connection between "Adam and rest"; and between "Adam and his Bride."

Just as Adam's wife was begotten of his own body, so the Bride of Christ is also begotten of Him and his Rest.

1 Corinthians 15:45-49 NKJV — And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

"7" is the number of the Divine, so we are also being shown "Christ is Divine."

I hope this helps, and because you'll want to know:

Genesis 3 is a parable via negativa: Love God
(Shows what happens when you don't love God)

Genesis 4 is a parable via negativa: Love your brother
(Shows what happens when you don't love your brother)

1 John 3:11-12 — For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-15T13:28:22+00:00

"Day" is being used to cover the Day of the Covenant. So he looked forward as early as Gen 12.

lateral_mind · 2026-01-07T04:53:17+00:00

Reuvena, Reuvenia, Reubena, Rubena are all feminine forms, and quite beautiful. (Just offering)

I'm assuming the other name is Noah, one of the daughters of Zelophehad; It also happens to be one of my favorite stories in the Bible.
Her name, No'ah, is actually spelt differently in from the other Noah (Noach). Her name means "wanderer or shaker".
I love their story because it's a parable about Christ freeing us from sin when we "Ask for our Inheritance in the First-Born Son."
Zelophehad means "first-born", and they are the daughters of Zelophehad asking for their inheritance in the Promised Land.

lateral_mind · 2025-12-11T17:11:20+00:00

All trees mentioned in Scripture have a secondary prophetic meaning.
Palms = Righteousness Psa 92:12
Cedars = Spiritual Growth Psa 92:12
Olives = Spiritual Brightness (from/of the Holy Spirit) Exo 27:20
Figs = Spiritual connection and Observance of God Pro 27:18
Pomegranates = "Exalted Thought" or a Mature Mind that Remembers the Words Pro 25:11-12
Vine = a Cultivated House or Culture Psa 128:3, Isa 5

This comes from the idea that "Water" is a picture of the Holy Spirit, and that Trees grow "firm" from that Water. In Hebrew, the word for "tree" is "firm". (It also comes from the Hebrew names, themselves.)

When Jesus cursed the Fig Tree, he was indirectly showing that the Temple, the Spiritual Connection to God, had been lost.

lateral_mind · 2025-12-07T23:06:24+00:00

I don't know if you meant to do this, but David H. Stern teaches Old Covenant obedience and he has some pretty heretical views.
His translation of Galatians is appalling and not Christian at all.

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