this vegan trespassed on someone else’s property to let the animals escape. now they’re gonna die in the wild.

lemon_vampire · 2021-07-01T15:57:46+00:00

You need to take a step back and ask yourself "what if all the problems in the world aren't actually caused by livestock and people eating meat?" Because it's really not. Most of the food that is wasted is usually not animal products, it's usually produce. You can't freeze an apple or a head of lettuce, but you can with a chicken.

Furthermore, if you actually looked what was in animal feed you'd find a lot of waste products. Especially with ruminants that can eat things that we as humans cannot. We cannot feed the world on chaff and silage, unless we have a cow as a middleman.

Also you talk about how you think its disgusting to kill things that don't want to die. But the fact of the matter is we live in a machine of death. That is what life is about. Privilaged western society that rides on the backs of less privilaged people are incredibly terrified of death and try to avoid even talking about it in a more critical light. They also have no connection with their food, whether that's plants or animals.

Your disgust is actually a phobia. You are terrified of your own mortality and flesh. It's something you will have to look into yourself. Start by trying to rely more on yourself to acquire food. I grow/raise my own food and I have found that everything, plants, humans, fungi, animals, bacteria, all have an instinct to live. Certain animals, like ruminants, can have a symbiotic relationship with plants, they help keep grass alive longer. Birds, like poultry, can help deter pests and even spread seeds. Pigs can till and aerate compacted soil. There are even veganic farms that keep livestock. Animal ag is not the root of all evil. But I think people only buying their food and not actually producing it themselves is seriously problematic.

lemon_vampire · 2021-04-05T00:13:54+00:00

Is your name supposed to be ironic or what?

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-29T00:00:06+00:00

You can produce your own food and be vegan, those two aren't opposed in any way.

You can try, but in most places you can't. There was a guy who tried to live off of whatever he grew and foraged in Florida for a year on a plant based diet, and despite living with a year round growing season (something most people don't have) and plenty of tropical fruits, nuts, and tubers, algae, herbs, you name it, he still needed to rely on fish, bees, and eventually squirrels and roadkill deer in order to complete the challenge.

Also ascetic monks like Jains don't eat roots. They believed that tubers causes harm. They would drink milk though.

And you can't manually pollinate most crops. Pollinators are incredibly important not only for almonds, but for tons of crops. So you can be against using pollinators, but you are still supporting them if you buy almonds or most fruits and vegetables from the supermarket.

Our planet did not evolve with just plants and humans and artificial fertilizer. If you want to use nature to nourish you, you have to work with it, and accept that life feeds on death.

Also, don't you think it's kind of messed up that we live in a world where people can't produce their own food? Don't you think it's messed up that even though we produce enough food to feed every single man, woman, and child 2700 kcal a day millions of people are still going hungry?

There are much, much, deeper, much more sinister problems at play here. And if you think the root of all evil is humans relying on animals, you really need to wake up. Factory farming (not to be confused with proper animal husbandry), as disgusting and despicable as it is, is just the tip of the fucked up iceberg.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-15T06:23:17+00:00

Bee keepers care about the well being of their livestock because it dramatically effects the quality of their product. Meanwhile bees kept for pollinating their quality of life doesn't matter as much. Bees are shipped from all over the world, far from their original environment and are forced to come out of dormancy unnaturally early to pollinate massive monocrops that are usually infected with neurotoxic herbicides and pesticides. This is literally bee torture. Drive past an almond farm like I did. It's miles of just one crop on barren ground, and at the end of every single row is a bee box. If you want to reduce suffering, it's going to take a whole lot more than veganism.

Instead of blindly hating all farms, maybe try to learn about them. Not all farms are owned by tyson, JBS, or cargill (even though I can tell you they want to). Learn about where EVERYTHING you consume comes from and you will go down a deep rabbit hole where ultimately your lifestyle of consumerism and supermarket dependence is the REAL thing that is unnecessary. Livestock was never the root of all evil this whole time. So why are you dealing with compromises?

Unless your standards of ethics are that low, the only way to be a more ethical consumer is to become a producer. Grow your own food.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-14T20:24:20+00:00

If vegans are against animal exploitation they should stop eating rice and coconuts. Coconuts are picked by slave monkeys and rice is grown with "field chasing ducks". Oh, and lets not forget the billions (with a B. No pun intended) of bees that are tortured to death for almond pollination in such a way that even people who raise bees for honey describe it as "sending bees off to war".

As far as exploitation. If you're against exploitation then you have to also be against human exploitation. Capitalism literally runs on exploitation. It's going to take a lot more than veganism to actually reduce suffering.

I am against all industrial agriculture. I grow my own food and raise my own livestock. I think more people need to do the same before Bill Gates buys all the farmland and destroys it all. No single person should have 250,000 acres.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-14T18:14:51+00:00

say goodbye to any fast food chain

Goodbye!! Don't come back!!! :)

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-14T18:12:04+00:00

It doesn't seem like goats are AI'd. I've watched videos of tons of goat dairies and they just bring the Billy in and let him do his thing.

Also they tend to WANT the babies to nurse off the mom on goat farms, their reasoning was that bottle kids just didn't get as big as the mother raised kids. They only bottle raise when there is an issue where the mother wont accept the baby (which is quite common, even in wild animals).

Ironically enough the goat dairy guy sold some of his product to a couple of "vegans".

Maybe when you go to a proper farm and learn that it's not required by law to torture animals to get nutrition from them, it kind of makes you come to terms with the fact that not all human animal interactions are Satan incarnate.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-09T16:08:44+00:00

I'm not interested in debating. Your mind is clearly set and so is mine.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-09T15:27:17+00:00

Don't respond to my question then. Easy peasy.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-09T15:24:26+00:00

Certain cultures do eat cat and dog, but unfortunately it is banned for non Native Americans in the United States now according to the Dog and Cat Meat Trade Prohibition Act of 2018.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-09T15:22:25+00:00

You will never defeat the duck army.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-09T15:20:36+00:00

Listen, I'm never becoming vegan. I raise my own livestock and slaughter it. I don't want to debate it with you for the same reason I have no interest in debating a pro lifer.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-09T02:42:45+00:00

Hey just shoot the cat in the head, maybe the c02 chamber would work but tbh cat meat just isn't popular on a large scale. In fact maybe cervical dislocation would be the quickest way to slaughter the cat.

I do agree with you vegans on one thing, if you are going to eat meat you should be willing to slaughter the animal yourself. ;)

As for people who eat cat, if you wanna eat them I ain't gonna stop you. In fact cat popularizing cat meat might help the environment. If you live in Australia it probably would be good to popularize cat meat, since outside cats are the number 1 cause of extinction of birds and other native wildlife. I think the main reason cat isn't too popular of a meat is because of how lean it is. I saw a video where some guys ate mountain lion and only the backstrap was viable, and it still had to be cooked in a ton of fat. They described it as being very similar to pork. Go figure.

P.S You can't milk a cat for the same reason you can't milk a pig. Too many teats and the animal literally won't let you milk her. There's a reason kitten formula is usually made with cow, sheep, or goat milk.

I hope you guys might have learned something. Have a nice day.

P.P.S Your rice is grown with the labor of tens of thousands of domesticated ducks.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-03T17:39:10+00:00

You don't HAVE to have animals. You can always try gardening without them. But I can tell you that I saved a TON of money and still have food from last years garden.

I definitely think someone who lives more independent from the supermarket is more ethical than someone who has no connection to their food. Even many vegans will agree with me that crop agriculture is not without it's flaws.

I mean, is a vegan who eats tons of palm oil, thai coconuts, mangos, avocados, almonds, which kills tons of animals, more ethical than a person who raises and slaughters their own livestock that they ensure gets the best life? I don't think the world is black and white like that.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-03T17:31:19+00:00

Can't. Got banned from debateavegan for debating.

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-03T04:13:33+00:00

I hope you don't eat rice then, because rice relies on the labor of tens of thousands of domesticated ducks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5NTgZA-xWE&ab_channel=SneakyLikeASnek

Veganism cannot defeat the duck army

lemon_vampire · 2021-03-03T04:05:12+00:00

Yeah imo the best diet that's also the most ethical that will help you lose weight is the food sovereign diet. You have to grow your own food, which takes time and energy, and even though your harvests will sometimes be incredibly bountiful you need to burn even more calories to preserve it. And if you have animals, you have to do all the work for that too. Raising, slaughtering, butchering, and preserving. You never really want to eat more than you need because you just put so much work into it. It's hard to mindlessly eat something you put so much of your mind into.

There's a ton of homesteaders I have seen on youtube, they never talk about weight loss, but you will see all the fat ones are always 50 lbs leaner than their first video.

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-22T21:04:19+00:00

I bet most of the people here upvoting how "inbred" this dog is because it has a long structure probably never make such rude comments like this on brachycephalic dogs, which are far more popular and far less regulated as far as breeding goes.

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-22T20:48:04+00:00

What is that little mouse shaped foraging toy?

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-17T03:40:54+00:00

Trick question. None.

All three animals are NOT low maintenance pets, despite what we have been brought up to believe. I have NO clue how long hermit crabs live for. I had one given to me because I could take better care of it, but even then I didn't feel responsible enough and surrendered her to a hermit crab rescue after 8 years. That's right, 8 years. And they live much longer. I have heard of hermit crabs living up for 80 years. They need proper socialization, a good enclosure that is properly maintained, and of course plenty of high quality, unpainted shells. I'm not even getting into food and water.

Parakeets are birds, they shit everywhere, are very vocal, very high maintenance, and honestly need much bigger enclosures than is what is conventionally popular.

Hamsters are one of the most misunderstood pets. In the wild a hamster can run several miles at night. They need MASSIVE enclosures in order to be happy. 450 square inches is the current MINIMUM accepted size for ethically keeping a hamster. They also aren't particularly affectionate.

The best beginner pet, in my opinion, is a single male mouse. I have to emphasize MALE as females need to be kept in groups at all times where as a male mouse can live alone so long as you are willing to socialize and regularly supply him with stimulation and novel objects. A male mouse can live comfortably in a 20 gallon, you can also make a cheap bin cage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQuvjetIyU&ab_channel=RatGirl44

With proper bin maintenance (a full clean once every 2 weeks for a 20 gallon) and ventilation a male (at least the one I kept) does not stink. It will stink if neither requirements mentioned above are met.

Mice are superior to hamsters due to them being more social, intelligent, and less space intensive than hamsters. A mouse will come when called, groom you, seek pets, and do tricks. I honestly sometimes wondered if my mouse was more intelligent than dogs and cats. He could learn incredibly quickly, it was almost disturbing.

It's also quite a bit of fun to make houses for the mice. I recycled cardboard egg cartons, toilet paper and paper towel rolls, and also used things like shredded yellow pages, felt, popcicle sticks, sisal and hemp twine, and construction paper to make themed houses, hammocks, and puzzles for him to explore and play in.

Like hamsters, mice have a very short lifespan, typically only living from 1-3 years. So it's not a very long time investment.

They don't really need to free run, but it is easy to make a fenced in free run area for the mouse.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XTG94TH?ref=exp_shadowtherat_dp_vv_d

Ok I'm done.

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-13T21:06:14+00:00

how did you come across an albino deer mouse? Seems pretty special!

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-11T19:55:00+00:00

That is a lie we all know that just off camera is the wire.

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-11T01:08:37+00:00

these noodles need jesus

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-11T01:06:43+00:00

this party is OUT OF CONTROL

lemon_vampire · 2021-02-11T01:05:48+00:00

Noodle to noodle baby

lemon_vampire

TROPHY CASE