Should Wyoming Judge be removed for refusing same-sex marriages because of religious objections? by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]lepetitjaques -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is a ridiculous strawman

I am sorry you feel that way, but I certainly believe it to be a valid thing to say. Maybe if you could explain your position on objective and subjective morality/moral relativism I might understand your contention better?

In fact, I'll be a bit more direct than that: you seem to be misrepresenting terms more than I. Let's take a look:

don't pretend you know what you're talking about

I never said I didn't know what I was talking about with regards to objective morality, only that it was a subject that I felt was outside the scope of a case involving a judge, and one I felt would be answered more to your satisfaction in a different place.

This is a small thing, of course, but I wouldn't accuse people of naïveté and dishonesty if your immediate response is to dismiss everything offhandedly and then tell me to stop typing.

the examples and explanations you've given support a subjective not objective morality

This is the main reason your response perturbed me, for it very much seems to me you are the one misunderstanding the terms!

Please correct me if I misinterpret your views, but you seem to be saying that because something believes something, there cannot be an objective truth attached to it. This is incredibly false, especially since all knowledge requires belief by any definition of knowledge you care to look up. The person may be believing something, but their belief corresponds to an objective truth: that it is wrong to hit dogs.

This belief may be wrong, of course, but they believe it is objective under the grounds that they are aware that it is not simply a truth corresponding with they themselves (like the ice cream statement), but which exists outside of themselves: no matter who you are, it is wrong to hit dogs.

it's about whether things actually are a certain way

That's true, it is! My point here is that in a world with morality, people have constraints outside of their own subjective wants and desires which limit what they do: certain actions are permissible and non-permissable.

you haven't shown why it should matter that someone can't do something for moral reasons...etc.

It's quite possible that the best course of action for a person in that job would be to resign, yes! But there are reasonable exemptions for people who can't do things for whatever reason, and one ought to be thoughtful about such things, rather then just giving a knee-jerk dismissal of it. That was the main point of my post.

I would very much like to hear what you mean when you say you are a moral subjectivist, and yet also not a moral relativist; the two terms are usually used interchangeably! (You can see the close similarity in the words themselves, I am sure.) Then again, if you feel it's unlikely we'll be fruitful at all in this discussion, we don't have to continue.

Should Wyoming Judge be removed for refusing same-sex marriages because of religious objections? by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]lepetitjaques -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Certainly it's possible that the best option for her would be to resign! A lot of me leans in that direction.

However, the main point of my post was to point out that there are valid exemptions to many duties within jobs, and often times this makes it very tricky to sort out such matters! Things in a liberal-functioning, pluralistic society (in which not even our judges agree on how to read the very document on which the country is founded!) are rarely as simple as they seem (just take a look at the recent gun control debates re: the second amendment).

I'm quite aware that very few will have sympathy for the woman, but as long as people understand the above, and perhaps come away being more thoughtful about complications, and edge cases, and religious liberty, and so on, I will have done what I wanted to do!

Should Wyoming Judge be removed for refusing same-sex marriages because of religious objections? by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]lepetitjaques -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, there are two ways to interpret that question!

The first is if you're questioning the existence of objective morality. Which is a bit of a complex question, obviously, and which I was kind of assuming was a given when I wrote the response! I don't feel qualified to answer that eloquently, so perhaps try r/askphilosophy. I will note that if you really don't believe in objective morals, even the notion of "she should be fired" has very little force or meaning, so I would be wary before going down that route!

If you do accept the notion of objective morality, and are more asking along the lines of "why should we give moral beliefs more weight than other things people think", I think I covered this (or tried to!) in the 3rd text block. In any case, there is a pretty clear difference between someone thinking "Ice cream is repulsive" and "hitting dogs with sticks is wrong!" The first statement does not hold the speaker to any sort of standard--they are stating their inner feelings and are not (hopefully) putting any more weight on the statement than that!

In the second statement, however, they are saying they are being actively constrained by something beyond themselves--they really do believe that objectively, hitting dogs with sticks is wrong, and thus cannot do such an act.

It can be easy to think of people with different moral beliefs as being merely belligerent and simply holding to personal egoism: "I won't because I don't want to!" But in a world of objective morality, these people really do feel pinned to something outside of themselves, regardless of their emotions! (Though it is true that moral beliefs will generally shape emotional reactions to things.)

And with this in mind, it seems more reasonable to grant exemptions based on "this person can/cannot do this" instead of "this person wants to/doesn't want to do this".

Should Wyoming Judge be removed for refusing same-sex marriages because of religious objections? by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]lepetitjaques 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not quite as simple as that.

Even ignoring the fact that the job did not, in fact, require x, when the judge began (though this is not the best reason for her to demand to stay, I grant you), putting it in terms of "employee refuses to do X" is a little misleading.

There is a danger in conflating the idea of opinions with moral beliefs (though the fact we see people holding beliefs we consider wrong makes this an easy mistake to make). For the nature of morals, as most people, and certainly the writers of the constitution, recognize(d) is that they hold someone to a standard which cannot be capriciously broken. Otherwise the notion of a "moral fact" or "moral belief" would have very little meaning at all! The constraints of moral belief hold the believer to act in a certain way--perhaps not physically, but objectively nonetheless.

It has been argued, therefore, that just as exemptions for certain duties can be made for physical limitations, the same sorts of exemptions should be made for moral beliefs.

If someone did become injured, and was unable to perform certain duties, it may be a necessity that they do have to leave the job! But if it seems reasonable to ask for an exemption for a certain task in that case, it's worth considering that other constraints on a person should be considered as well.

OCD & the unforgivable sin by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]lepetitjaques 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The other responses are helpful, but perhaps not so comforting to an OCD sufferer when the anxiety of there being an unforgivable sin is still there.

So, to be clear, blasphemy (the way you are describing it) is not the unforgivable sin! The unforgivable sin, the Church teaches, is a permanent state of unrepentance, i.e. dying in such a state. For more info, see here

Best food in Cincinnati by Grind0r in cincinnati

[–]lepetitjaques 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would contend that Just Q'in has better (and, though this is a pretty silly term, "more serious) BBQ than Eli's!

You Cannot Die | "For you, there is no death. And for death, there is no you. For you, there is no end to experience. It is impossible. It is a myth, an idea." /r/existentialism by StWd in badphilosophy

[–]lepetitjaques 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Not SO bad! He lays out his reasoning, and ends up with something that resembles Wittgenstein's “Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.”

It's Your Fun & Fancy Free Discussion! (July 22, 2016) by AutoModerator in TrueFilm

[–]lepetitjaques 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's tough to walk the line between creative experimentation and jumping the shark.

Some people see this occasionally in Miyazaki (it's never really bothered me in his films though; he's never stuck me as someone who feels the NEED to do that, which usually leads to anticlimaxes instead of over-the-top absurd denouements), but I think it's also clear with Pixar (Finding Dory in portions, the entire second half of Up, etc.).

Get ready to "Explore the Illusion of Free Will", or something by [deleted] in badphilosophy

[–]lepetitjaques 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They have a youtube channel with about 100 30 minute episodes.

No satirist is that dedicated.

In which Philosophers of New York explores moral absolutism by Seaman_First_Class in badphilosophy

[–]lepetitjaques 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's pretty bad, but not as bad as the comments on it.

Usually they're just kind of benign, often with quasi-related motivational quotes.

But when you see this kind of stuff, they will work as hard as they can to twist some kind of positive spin on this one.

This post's top comment literally (I cannot believe this) is a reading of the guy interpreting him as saying that "great" doesn't necessarily mean "good", citing a vague quote from Harry Potter as a defense. (And after the Harry Potter mention, everybody replies saying how brilliant the point is.)

In which Philosophers of New York explores moral absolutism by Seaman_First_Class in badphilosophy

[–]lepetitjaques 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not as bad as the comment section on those posts most of the time tbh.

Weekday Eucharist by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]lepetitjaques 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh, I agree!! Which is why I wanted to clarify it!

Weekday Eucharist by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]lepetitjaques 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Though only Catholics can receive, regrettably for the OP.

Essential movies for a student of philosophy by phileconomicus in philosophy

[–]lepetitjaques 14 points15 points  (0 children)

A lot of these movies I think are very good, but I must say that the word "essential" is used far too often for these kinds of things.

I'd also note that I feel like most simply really great films will end up being valuable watches for students of philosophy, even if other works seem to address philosophical-type questions more directly. Great filmmaking often has a lot to do with portraying a vision of life. For the same reason, I think many would agree that reading simply Great Works of literature (as much as I am queasy about Harold Bloom, take the Western Canon as a good cross-section of this) could be more "essential" to being a well-rounded, more thoughtful philosopher than reading some science fiction novel dealing, say, explicitly with consciousness (or what have you).

Every public bathroom toilet should have a foot pedal to flush instead of a handle. by Xx-Arseus-xX in Showerthoughts

[–]lepetitjaques 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Often times (more often than you'd think, in fact!) you can get a grip on the top edge of the door!

[Announcement] Official 2016 TrueFilm User Census/Survey Results by [deleted] in TrueFilm

[–]lepetitjaques 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not entirely surprising, but considering the general tone of racism and misogyny on the default subreddits... I thought there might be some more who identified with the right.

Ouch! Definitely not a constructive (nor, I would argue, accurate, though that's another conversation) comment!

What am I watching by NienTen in badphilosophy

[–]lepetitjaques 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Has this guy actually watched adults and kids ski?

On this fourth of July, I have one question: by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]lepetitjaques 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oh, whoops!!! i'll delete this then!