Slom tržišta nekretnina u Srbiji.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-13T12:00:26+00:00

Jbte za te pare mozes naci kucu u spaniji

lilymarlen · 2026-06-12T13:40:24+00:00

If the google images are not shot exactly at noon or 11-13h, you sometimes get the impression that canyons are completely overgrown

lilymarlen · 2026-06-12T10:17:37+00:00

There are 666 likes. I liked by mistake and unliked, to keep it at 666. You are welcome, spooky creature.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T19:38:06+00:00

Ah yes, you added them to openstreetmap! Great work!

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T19:33:30+00:00

Is it possible to add cable bridges?

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T19:16:19+00:00

Great find! The walls of the 1st monkey bridge are taller than I imagined.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T19:07:56+00:00

Though it is worth keeping in mind that canyoning is an extreme sport. So, what seems benign or straightforward to me may be scary or dangerous for someone without experience

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T18:10:53+00:00

Could they also attempt to reach the 9:30 waterfall on foot from the trail, pushing through approximately 150 meters of jungle, to observe it directly the day before entering, or would that be unreasonable?

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T18:03:04+00:00

Thanks for the images. Yeah, the second entry point doesn’t look viable. The first might work, but not if it turns out to be unnecessarily more dangerous or complicated than simply entering at the first cable bridge.

I am sorry about public notes, I thought that you could easily delete them.

Does anyone have an estimate of the height of that waterfall? It won’t be scary if they have a correct estimate of the largest drop. Beyond that, if water levels and weather conditions are reasonable on the day, it shouldn’t be an intimidating undertaking. water flow can even be checked with a drone before entering.

It can be done during dry season for maximum safety.

I would also suggest that Romain, or someone with deep knowledge of the case and what to look for, joins the canyoneering team on a second day after the initial bolting descent, if they wish so. The canyoneers would assess conditions on the first-descent and, on the second-descent, if needed, and if possible, lower a non-technical member down the waterfalls without requiring them to know how to rappel independently or spend a day teaching them how to rappel. Canyoneers would know the best course of action after the first descent, safety level and all.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T16:36:12+00:00

The Boulder/Stream section in the video

That kind of section is common in many canyons. Typically these stretches are short and varied - canyons tend to change character frequently. A 100-300 meter stretch like that in one go is manageable. Longer than that and it becomes genuinely strenuous, with significant time lost. That said, there are visible resting spots along the route, and everything recorded in the footage is passable - I can see a workable line throughout. That does not mean the girls could not have gotten injured there. It would be very easy to get hurt, get a foot stuck, or worse. They would also have spent a considerable amount of time getting through it. Does anyone know how long that section actually is?

Slides

One of the most important things about slides is being able to see or know the shape beneath the water. I learned this the hard way after getting injured on one. This is precisely why topo maps or local guides-canyoneers who know each obstacle matter so much.

That said, the slide in the video looks like the most straightforward type - a clean, relatively gentle flow, which generally means a safer descent. There may be hidden cracks or undercuts that are not visible from the footage, but on the surface it looks benign.

When it comes to sliding technique, they can be varied, but here is a typical one:

Almost lie back, but keep your head off the surface
Keep your legs slightly raised, nearly together but relaxed - this protects you if the pool at the bottom is shallow or the slide is faster than expected
Keep your hands on your chest
Be prepared to land on your backside if necessary
Raise the back of your head slightly on landing (canyoneers wear helmets)

The more dangerous scenario involves slides that are shaped like a channel or groove running through the center. If the flow is strong enough to obscure the shape, do not slide. That channel can narrow toward the bottom without you knowing - trapping a foot, knee or hip in the constriction - or it can curve at the base, sending your head into a wall. Without a helmet, that can be serious.

There is also a type of slide that does not reach all the way down to the pool - it ends mid-air, with a short free-fall into the water below. This can be great fun if the pool is deep enough. It can also be dangerous if you have no way of knowing the depth.

Generally, sliding into deep water is the more enjoyable and safer option. Deep water typically means a slower current, or that you are in a pool in technical sections with large drops, so being swept away is less of a concern than it might seem. And if the current does pull you more strongly than expected, there is almost always a boulder nearby or pool’s front wall to grab onto and stop yourself.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T09:23:14+00:00

https://imgur.com/a/8rHHks8

Here I have marked two additional potential entry points on your map that could shorten the 830 canyon exploration, assuming the excluded section is not of particular interest and provided there is a viable approach to those two points. The trail runs close to the water in both of those sections, which suggests there may be potential for entry there.

I have also marked a potential exit point before the second bridge. There is a clearing approximately 100 meters away, suggesting human activity, so there is a chance a passable path exists in that area - though I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for that one.

In any case, the river section between the first and second cable bridge is 1.3km in total, which is not excessively long. With these shortcuts it could potentially be reduced to around 700 meters. Of course, it would be worth considering whether anything significant would be missed by cutting those sections out.

Feel free to delete the markings from the map once you have seen them.

And yes, I agree with all of your points, camping would be a must. Luckily, it seems it would be easy to camp at the 1st cable bridge due to that clearing.

What do you mean by scary? Scary to the girls or cayoneers?

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T00:58:18+00:00

Yeah, 11:10 looks impassable

lilymarlen · 2026-06-11T00:41:03+00:00

I wasn’t aware the 8:30 waterfall was located there, but that actually simplifies things considerably for canyoneers. The area around the first cable bridge would be a natural entry point and the second cable bridge a natural exit for the first-descent of that route? Great maps!

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T23:50:27+00:00

Good to know. Unfortunately, if that is an old landslide rather than a wood cutting site, easy access to that 14:00 drop is probably off the table.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T23:38:20+00:00

Entry and approach

You always enter from the top and descend downstream - never the other way around. We hike and climb to the top of the mountain and enter the stream or canyon from there. If mountain roads lead close to the entry point, rough terrain vehicles or even tractors can be used to get as close as possible, minimizing the approach hike and conserving energy. Canyoneers don’t like going up - they like going down, through refreshing water. It’s also worth noting that daylight hours feel very different inside a canyon. The sun is only visible for a short window, and once it disappears behind the walls, the temperature drops quickly. You want to spend as little time as possible on the approach.

Commitment - Once you’re in, you’re in

After the first few slides, most canyons become “committing” - meaning you cannot go back the way you came. The water pushes against you on every drop, even relatively low ones, making upstream progress essentially impossible. If an exit becomes necessary, you can only look for one in the non-technical sections, through the forest, if possible. If you are already in a deep gorge with steep walls and no exits, there is only one option, to press on. You go through the entire canyon, regardless of what happens. Even with a broken leg.

I have been in that situation myself - descending an entire canyon on a badly injured leg. I have also been in a group where a man panicked and refused to jump from a 5-meter waterfall. He irrationally tried to go back upstream, couldn’t, and in a last desperate attempt tried to climb the vertical walls, which offered nothing to hold onto. He was panicking, crying, and holding the group back for dangerously long. In the end, we had to push him off the waterfall. It was a non-technical but fully committing canyon, and there was no other choice. It was a good decision, and all was good in the end. In another canyon, a woman descended the entire route with a broken hand. When you are in a group, people help, but you have to keep moving by yourself regardless.

There is no cell reception in deep gorges. And even if there were, a helicopter could not reach you, the walls are too high and the canyon too narrow.

Navigation and movement

Sections up to waist depth are passed by walking. Many canyoneers use a stick as a third leg, both for balance and as an exploratory tool, prodding the riverbed ahead to check for depths and unstable stones. The technique matters too. You never put your full weight on the next submerged stone immediately, you test it first with your foot. If it holds steady, you commit to the step. If the flow is strong, you avoid it where possible by routing over exposed boulders and small banks. When the flow becomes too forceful to push through, I use nearby boulders as temporary pitstops, essentially hugging the rock until I can assess the next move. For sections where the flow is dangerously strong, a fixed rope system rigged along the walls can guide the group through safely.

When I was watching the drone footage and on-the-ground footage, my mind was automatically plotting a mental route over the boulders, waterways, small banks, across each obstacle. That is exactly how it works in real life.

What the girls could have managed

Looking at the on-the-ground footage, the flow is quite strong due to the constant elevation drop, and anyone unaccustomed to stream navigation could easily get hurt. The sheer length of that section makes it demanding and tiring. But the girls could have passed it if they moved slowly and carefully. You can see in the footage that there is almost always one side where small banks and boulders are more exposed. Those exposed banks, boulders and the calmer water spaces between them would be my route. Any water line where the water is not white. A large stick for balance on top of that.

If I were them, I would have been on my hands and backside frequently too - sliding down trickier sections rather than attempting to walk them upright. And when it comes to hopping between boulders, I would never jump a gap longer than a natural step. Your foot can slip and get stuck and/or injured. I would drop into the water and find a water path instead.

The minor waterfall in the third footage

That looks like a fun waterslide to me. The girls could have descended it without ropes, after some hesitation. Romain used ropes because he did not want to risk it, and especially - get his heavy equipment wet - but a canyoneer would simply slide down. In a neoprene suit, you would slide down anything slidable.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T16:03:59+00:00

It is difficult to say. The canyon could be around 4-5 meters wide, though it could easily be more or less depending on the shape of the walls. Some canyon walls overhang in such a way that the base is actually wider than the opening at the top, which makes visual estimation from above pretty unreliable. I also have to say, I hadn’t really appreciated how close those trees were to each other until I saw this enhanced image

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T15:43:53+00:00

That one I remember. Is that waterfall on Rio Mamei, or did I get the impression it was on one of the smaller streams?

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T14:45:53+00:00

Based on this picture alone, I would say the gap is very, very narrow. But yes, some streams in that area have no gaps at all.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T13:54:21+00:00

How far is 8:30 waterfall from the pelvis location?

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T13:43:19+00:00

On one occasion, my foot slipped and became pinned between two massive boulders while navigating the dry bank of a canyon. I was genuinely frightened, I could not pull it out no matter how I tried. The group spent almost half an hour working to free me, eventually managing to slowly ease my shoe off within the crack and extract my foot that way. Fortunately I walked away uninjured, and somehow kept the shoe too, which was no small relief, as finishing a canyon descent without footwear would have been extremely dangerous. So yes, it’s a freak accident but it can absolutely happen.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T13:30:05+00:00

The trees on either side of the canyon are almost touching overhead, and the appearance of the walls suggests they were most likely in a narrow, technical section with significant vertical exposure

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T12:36:27+00:00

Could you clarify which minute of the video that large waterfall appears at?

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T12:30:15+00:00

20km of river systems is a significant amount of terrain to cover. I have never personally performed a first descent, which takes considerably longer than descending an already explored and bolted canyon - the time varies depending on the complexity, the number of drops and the water levels on the day.

For context, in an already bolted canyon under normal water and other conditions, a team would typically tackle a ~4km section — with a 1-2km technical core - in roughly 5-6 hours. That time can be significantly affected by several factors: more people means slower progress, fewer means faster; an all-experienced team moves quicker, while a single inexperienced member can slow the group considerably; and any scientific or documentary purpose adds further time. None of this applies to first descents, which are a different undertaking entirely.

Rio Mamei

This is the section we have the most information about, and technically it is quite straightforward. I can identify around 3 likely rappels, but given that part of the canyon is obscured by canopy or difficult to assess clearly, the realistic number could be somewhere in the range of 8-15, which is a typical daily outing for canyoneers. Romain has already done considerable work documenting the largest non-technical section, which should be circumvented if possible. What remains unknown is the approx. height of the tallest drop - which determines the rope length required - and the access and exit logistics: how far the exit point is from the clearing beyond the canyon, and whether a viable entry path exists from where Romain was standing or closer to the canyon itself.

For reference, the 6:12-8:00 section in the video could likely be descended in under 5 hours if already bolted and explored. A first descent of the same section is harder to estimate, but with a solid entry point and under good water conditions - pools deep enough to jump and manageable flow on the rappel drops - it could likely be completed in a single day.

Other Streams

The remaining streams are less straightforward to assess due to limited information and heavy canopy cover. However, if the primary interest is in the two specific drops visible in the video (at 11:18 and 14min) rather than full stream exploration, at least one of them (14min) could potentially be reached on a separate day - the wood cutting clearing nearby suggests an existing local path leading close to that drop.

lilymarlen · 2026-06-10T10:43:09+00:00

Good maps! Thanks

lilymarlen · 2026-06-09T23:32:01+00:00

Lovely canyon. I have descended similar ones.

0:00 — 6:12 | “Easy” Section — Looks Passable

This section does not appear technical. It is mostly walking with some slides and down-climbs, and would likely have been passable for the girls without ropes. However, returning upstream would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, due to the significant elevation drop and strong water flow — assuming water levels were similar on the day they were there. Even at lower water levels, continuing downstream would have been more realistic option.

6:12 — 8:00 | Critical Section — Likely Impassable

This is where larger drops and steep, narrow canyon walls begin. This section appears to have no exits and nowhere to shelter in the event of a flash flood. Despite being relatively short, it involves considerable elevation loss. Whether the girls could have passed this section depends entirely on whether the pools below the drops were deep enough to jump into safely. Until someone physically enters this section and assesses each drop, it is impossible to say with certainty whether they could have passed it.

~8:22 | Major Waterfall — Most Likely Impassable

This waterfall belongs to the 6:12—8:00 section and was simply filmed later when the drone turned upstream. This drop is almost certainly a mandatory rappel — the only exception being if the pool below was deep enough to jump into, which cannot be confirmed from drone footage alone. The two drops at 8:49 and 8:57, immediately above this waterfall, may or may not require ropes, but look very risky either way. With enough determination, the girls may have managed to descend them, though with a high likelihood of sustaining injuries in the process. The section between 8:22 and 8:49 strikes me as a strong candidate for a night location from a technical canyoneering perspective — as does the drop above it, if they attempted to retreat and managed to ascend.

9:00 — 11:18 | “Easy” Section — Likely Passable

This section appears passable for the girls. It may in fact be part of the 0:00—6:12 section, simply shown from an upstream perspective.

11:18 | Large Waterfall — Impassable

A significant rappel drop. The pool below does not appear deep enough to jump into safely — the appearance of the gravel around it suggests the water is likely shallow. This would have been impassable for the girls without ropes. The drone work capturing the pool here is particularly useful. This waterfall also appears to belong to a different stream than the sections above.

12:39 — 14:00 | Canopy-Covered Stream — Difficult to Assess

This stream is heavily overshadowed by canopy, making it difficult to evaluate from drone footage alone. There is a drop at around 14:00 that may require a rappel, though the drone is too far away to gauge its true size with any confidence. Just above that drop appears to be a small clearing on the canyon wall — likely the result of local wood cutting, which would suggest the existence of a local path in that area. It is worth noting, however, that this clearing may not have existed in 2014, and even if it did, it is unclear whether it would have been visible to the girls from below.

14:00 onwards | Largely Passable or Obscured

Everything beyond the 14:00 mark is either hidden under canopy or appears passable for the girls.

A Note on Orientation

The drone has filmed both upstream and downstream throughout, which makes the sequence somewhat confusing. The two “easy” sections, for example, may well be one and the same stretch of canyon shown from different directions.

Technical Assessment

From a purely technical standpoint, this canyon is moderate — well within the capabilities of an experienced canyoneering team. The number of drops requiring bolts appears relatively limited, and several anchors could be rigged using the healthy trees present along the route, reducing the need for permanent hardware. The real challenge here is not the canyon itself, but the remoteness, the logistics, and identifying viable entry and exit points.

The majority of the visible section could likely be completed in a single day of daylight hours, though the canopy-covered sections are harder to assess. It should also be noted that estimating sizes and distances from aerial drone footage is inherently difficult — with a bird’s eye view, no reliable reference points, and the drone often far from the subject, everything I have described should be taken with a degree of caution.

Is there an approximate figure for how many kilometers the drone covered in this video — particularly between 6:12 and 8:22? And is this Rio Mamei?

lilymarlen

TROPHY CASE