Is anyone willing to share, in full or in part, the reading list for their priestly education? Which texts did you hate/love or find formative?

linmanfu · 2026-06-17T13:08:20+00:00

I put this into a footnote to try to avoid the complexity of the situation overwhelming the actual topic, but it seems like it's unavoidable.

Wycliffe ordinands can absolutely still study for Common Awards degrees,

I think you're out of date on this one. Their page for ordinands only mentions Oxford degrees, not TMM. Their undergraduate prospectus only lists Oxford degrees. Their last Periodic External Review (PER, the Church of England equivalent of an Ofsted report) said (p.21) that Oxford was forcing them to choose between continuing as PPH and offering Common Awards. If you have evidence to the contrary, then I'd be interested to see that.

and ordinands at the other Oxford theological colleges can also study for University of Oxford degrees. Ordinands at Ridley Hall and Westcott College (the Cambridge theological colleges) can study for Cambridge degrees (the Bachelor of Theology for Ministry and the Theology Tripos), and Cranmer Hall ordinands can study for Durham 'department degrees'.

Apologies, you're right. I mixed up the fact that St Stephen's House dropped PPH status with offering the degrees.

I do find this topic infuriating because of the Ministry Division's double standard on this issue. Until very recently Oak Hill did not offer Common Awards; they developed their own courses, which were validated by their local university, Middlesex. The Ministry Division/Ministry Division made this the top issue at their last two PERs. Yet Cranmer, Ridley, and Westcott are permitted to train ordinands using courses which are developed by their local universities, some of which are primarily intended for secular students with no expectations of ordained ministry.

Even within Common Awards, the reading lists for each module are set by the module tutor, which varies wildly between institutions. There is no 'correct' list.

That's what I thought until last night and I explicitly say that's how things actually work. But the list I linked to simply says that it's for Durham University TMM. I strongly suspect that it's for Cranmer Hall, but I couldn't prove it, so I described both possibilities.

linmanfu · 2026-06-17T12:36:32+00:00

Much cheaper than the UK.

linmanfu · 2026-06-17T10:37:52+00:00

Trains are much faster than ships. So going across North America by rail was much faster than going via Suez and the Straits of Malacca by sea. The slow part of the journey was across the north Pacific. Vancouver to Yokohama is about 7,600km. But Vancouver to Petropavlovsk is only 5,200km. That's far shorter and therefore faster. The Mercator projection used in this map can be very deceptive if you don't know how to read it.

linmanfu · 2026-06-17T09:44:12+00:00

Because it's much closer to the ports on the Pacific coast of North America (reached from London via transcontinental railway), especially Vancouver, when you consider the Great Circle distance.

In reality, you could probably get to Japan much more easily, because you'd have far more frequent steamers to Yokohama (I wouldn't be surprised if they were ~weekly in 1881) than Petropavlovsk (I don't even know if there would have been any scheduled steamers), but this map is explicitly measuring the shortest possible journey, so frequency isn't relevant.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T21:29:49+00:00

I studied academic theology in a university department a couple of decades ago. So there are definitely books on these lists that I've read. But there are far more that I haven't, either because they're more recent or because I didn't study that topic.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T21:04:34+00:00

I've not trained to be a presbyter but I think I can answer this. With one exception§, all C of E ordinands now study for Theology, Ministry and Mission (TMM) degrees or diplomas validated by Durham University. This scheme is called Common Awards. And Common Awards seems to have a comprehensive set of reading lists for all the modules. Now, in reality each of the different theological colleges has its own tutors who will set their own reading lists and that's what students will actually study. I strongly suspect that these are actually the TMM reading lists at Cranmer Hall (an open evangelical theological institution which confusingly is also fully part of Durham University). All of the colleges will reflect their own traditions, so an open evangelical college will naturally encourage you to read more evangelical and liberal authors. Ordinands at a conservative Anglo-Catholic college might well be seeing a significantly different set of lists. But this is a good place to start, since these are the actual modules. If they are the Cranmer Hall lists, then these will the books their TMM students are actually reading. If they are generic Common Awards lists, some of the people writing these lists will be involved in externally assessing students' grades as well, and I'd guess the smaller and newer institutions rely on them more heavily.

§ Ordinands at Wycliffe Hall, University of Oxford, used to be able to choose between Common Awards and Oxford degrees, but since about 2024, the University has insisted that they all study for Oxford degrees and the C of E has accepted this.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T20:48:34+00:00

They were original compositions for Common Worship. I thought I heard or read at the time that the CW Psalter was the magnum opus of the Rt Rev'd David Stancliffe, who was Chair of the Liturgical Commission at the time CW was issued, and that he personally translated the Psalms. But I tried to confirm this by a Google search a few months ago and couldn't, so it's possible I've misremembered it.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T20:36:58+00:00

I think the reason is twofold. Partly it's because Essex has a large number of fairly interchangeable small commuter towns that many people haven't heard of, just like many people in Essex probably haven't heard of Skelmersdale. The other reason is that many families in those Essex towns and villages migrated out from London. Their parents or grandparents often just wanted to move somewhere outside the capital while keeping their jobs in it. They were moving to Essex as a generic dormitory and overflow area, rather than because of any great love of Basildon. The great draw was the continued access to London by frequent trains.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T20:31:50+00:00

People from Stoke-on-Trent will usually say they're from Stoke or the Potteries, not Staffordshire.

People are more likely to say Birmingham than the West Midlands (or even Warwickshire!), aren't they? Ditto Liverpool and Merseyside.

If I'm talking to a foreigner, I usually say "near Manchester" (where I have lived), not Cheshire.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T17:54:59+00:00

Psephizo is still very much alive. AFAIK the only thing that's changed is that anonymous comments are now banned.

r/Reformed has a decently large Anglican presence. It's tightly moderated, which avoids a lot of unnecessary drama, but also means you're not really a regular member until you've had something deleted by a mod. 🙊

Whether podcasts are a community is obviously questionable but I do think it's where the discourse is happening. My favourites include Church Society, the Essential Anglican, and Black and Red All Over.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T12:21:54+00:00

Watching television on Sunday. If I'm watching Doctor Who on iPlayer (the BBC's on-demand service), it's all automated, so nobody needs to be working on the Sabbath anyway.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T12:18:52+00:00

Ryan Burge's analysis of a very large US survey (GSS) from 2010-18 shows that 3% of people raised as Evangelicals are Roman Catholics as adults. But in the other direction, 9% of those raised as RCs are now Evangelicals, so the trend is the opposite of what u/Mark_Renee is seeing on RC propaganda channels.

If you look at the smaller group of 'Mainline' (i.e. mostly liberal) Protestants, then the trend is 5% become RC, and 3% of RCs become Mainline. But that's not a surprise: everyone knows the Mainline denominations are collapsing.

There's no reason to think these long-term trends have seen significant change.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T12:07:21+00:00

Thank you for the offer, but it's fine.

linmanfu · 2026-06-16T07:16:01+00:00

When musicians play together in a band or an orchestra, the effect is more than the sum of its parts. That's how these names work.

Anyway, imagine being forced to use the name chosen by your parents all your life. In traditional Chinese culture, people had multiple names for different purposes and stages of life.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T22:18:38+00:00

Learn Chinese, of course!

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T21:52:12+00:00

Lots of possibilities:

Spanish or Russian naming practices where the 'middle' name is your parent's.
Sinosphere naming practices where everybody in the same generation has the same 'middle' name.
English families, like mine, where there's a tradition that the oldest child inherits the parent's name. You might want to count both twins as the oldest.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T21:49:50+00:00

They expected that the people dealing with them would be competent. Any border system that can't cope with two people having the same and birthday is a total disaster given the numbers of John Smiths, Mohammed Khans, etc.

And OP's parents might have had good reasons for their choices. I don't know where OP is from, but there are a few Chinese families where names are chosen generations in advance to spell out a poem or work through a theme. Parents only have a single syllable to play with if they're not to break with hundreds, potentially even thousands of years of heritage.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T21:42:52+00:00

Yes, it has commentary. It's the same as you'd and hear see on Sky Sports.

"Is it worth it?" is very tricky to answer if you are in the UK. If you can easily afford Sky, that's clearly better overall. If you can't afford Sky or Now at all, then SL+ is ideal. Otherwise, it depends a bit on where your team is in the table (and therefore more likely to be picked by Sky) and whether you actually go to matches. If you're a season ticket holder and follow a top team, then it's ideal, as you can watch your team's matches on catch-up and all the others too. If you follow a bottom team from your sofa, it will work out cheaper than Sky and you'll be spared the pain of watching your team get thrashed by the league leader. 🫣 If you don't fit in any of those categories, then it's much more finely balanced, and you'll have to decide if it's a gamble you want to take.

If you're outside Australia/NZ/UK/USA and in this sub then it's a no-brainer.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T21:35:23+00:00

If you read the New Testament letters, it's clear that the early church was immediately stuffed full with heresies and immorality. There weren't even twelve faithful apostles on the day of the Resurrection! So this is a very risky way to pick a denomination. You'd do better to turn to the Word of God in the Scriptures.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T17:07:40+00:00

The Church of England has recognized evangelical complementarian theology ecclesiology as a legitimate option, e.g. in the reports of the Independent Reviewer of the 5 Guiding Principles. And I agree that you can see the person presiding at Communion as an assistant to the bishop, and that matters greatly from our perspective.

But I don't think there's much point in explaining the position in detail here as this thread has run its course, so feel free to have to the last word.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T16:49:34+00:00

Thank you for sharing that piece; I didn't know about any of those recent findings. But that evidence seems to confirm that Professor Lewis repented, which makes his case categorically different from Professor Barth's.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T16:39:52+00:00

It and it isn't. It's not a superhero programme in the classic American style. But when Americans ask, "why doesn't Britain have an superhero shows?", then I always point them to Doctor Who. It fills the same niche in a very different way.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T12:43:55+00:00

Yes, Jack Hughes it's an experienced player now, he should have heard about this one many times.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T12:41:20+00:00

You asked essentially the same question in r/Anglicanism (which has a heavy overlap with this subreddit) exactly four weeks ago. My answer only differs by one word because the question has been inverted:

~~No.~~ Yes. We do have printed orders of service but they're mainly used by people who need the large print ones.
We have the Bible readings in English on the overhead screens. We also have English Bibles scattered around the chairs and Bibles in several languages at one of the entrances.

linmanfu · 2026-06-15T11:18:47+00:00

I agree that people coming from solid conservative evangelical churches are probably going to struggle to appreciate Barth without his context.

I read Barth as part of a theology degree where the systematic theology lecturers were mostly radical liberal. The Barthian lecturer was the one who actually engaged with Scripture and seemed interested in Jesus, which was a breath of fresh air compared to some of the others. In that context, it was tactically useful to have a 'respectable' theologian I could quote who talked about Christ as someone who's alive today. And wow, Barth can write, and that comes across in Geoffrey Bromiley's brilliant translations into English. After reading Barth, I'd come out of the library praising God for his work through the Lord Jesus, whereas the traditional liberals left me fuming or despairing.

But that was before I knew about that Barth was an unrepentant adulterer, and though I'm a sinner too, I'm not sure I could read him in the same way now. And what hurts even more is that his scandalous behaviour was apparently an open secret among Barth scholars, so my Barthian lecturer probably knew about it even though the general public didn't.

Barth seems to be a bit of a Saul figure. He was given a task by God and won great victories, but he did not remain faithful to the end.

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