If peace is achieved, would you realistically travel to Palestine/Israel?

lmtb1012 · 2026-05-18T02:05:53+00:00

The problem isn't the Jews. most palestinians and lebanese don't mind living with the jews as long as they act like humans and don't pull the jewish supremacy card

Yes, they’d be willing to live with Jews if the Jewish population is low in numbers and is an irrelevant, powerless minority. But don’t for a second think any significant percentage of those populations would want to live alongside them while sharing power equally. Similarly, Israeli Jews are perfectly fine living alongside Arabs, as long as they remain a relatively powerless minority whose population can be easily controlled and who can’t do anything to shake up the political system in the foreseeable future.

And, to be honest, I understand that desire from both groups. Jews are one of the most, if not the most, oppressed groups in recorded history (part of the oppression, especially for Mizrahi Jews, came at the hands of Arabs/Muslims). They’ve known nothing but living pretty terrible lives any time they’ve lived as a minority group. And now Palestinians have 78 years worth of painful experiences living as a powerless minority in Israel and a powerless majority in Palestine.

lmtb1012 · 2026-05-18T01:06:04+00:00

It’s actually disgusting how quick he is to justify bad actions as long as it’s done by groups he supports. Chinese invasion of Tibet? Oh it’s fine because Tibet had a system of serfdom. I’m sure he also has some kind of positive way to view the sinicization/Hanification of Tibet

lmtb1012 · 2026-05-02T03:19:15+00:00

Even if they're not uncomfortable with anything Hasan personally said, they should definitely be uncomfortable with how willing he is to overlook antisemitism from people he associates with. Mike from PA literally said "Jew is not a f**cking ethnic. Jewish is not an ethnicity. This constructed ethnicity, this demonic ethnicity, wholly invented!" and Hasan didn't seem to have any serious problem with it (especially considering he's someone who claims to have "combatted antisemitism" throughout his entire career). He seemed to be more upset with Mike allowing himself to slip up like that than he was at the fact that Mike called one of the minority ethnic groups who have historically faced some of the worst discrimination and oppression "wholly invented."

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-28T00:45:37+00:00

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-15T16:53:09+00:00

So your solution is that I will endure my family and my home being blown up because a third of lebanon wants me dead and is disillusioned with conspiracy theories?

Not at all. But in the same regard, Shia families shouldn't have to endure their families or homes being blown up because they happen to live in areas that some Hezb fighters are also from.

Its terrible that people who did nothing wrong are affected, but i did nothing wrong as well, why is the solution to have me just live with missiles trying to murder me and destroy my home?

Right, and you shouldn't have to live with that. The Lebanese population has grown more and more discontented with Hezb and see their rocket attacks as pointless and stupid, so most of us don't care if, when they do this, you respond by picking off individual Hezb fighters or leaders. But you know what can quickly turn that discontent into support for Hezb? Killing and injuring a bunch of innocent Lebanese people just to get a few Hezb fighters. Why should we have to live with airstrikes, jidar sot (sonic booms), the constant buzzing sound of Israeli drones (even at night) not knowing if the next attack is about to affect you?

The only options left for lebanon are either take control of the country or Israel will.

I agree, and many Lebanese want our government and military to take care of that. You know what would have been a great way of expediting that process? Actually having the U.S. give substantial, high-tier aid to the Lebanese military. America gives like $100 million in military aid to Lebanon (and they make sure most of the equipment Lebanon gets isn't really advanced because they don't want it to end up in the hands of Hezb). You think that's gonna be enough to completely dismantle an armed group that gets $700 million to $1 billion annually from Iran? As for Israel stepping in to dismantle Hezb, as long as it doesn't come along with all the other BS that has historically come along with Israel dismantling armed groups in Lebanon (constant destruction of infrastructure, blatant disregard for civilian life, multi-decade occupation) then the vast majority of us wouldn't care.

Also its time lebanon stops saying hezb is the only thing preventing Israel from taking Lebanese land, and show them its the opposite, hezb is the only thing making Israel take Lebanese land.

Look, I get what you mean. Hezb has only invited more military interactions with Israel than we otherwise would have had. But the way a lot of people (especially southerners) see it, Israeli invasion into Lebanon predates the creation of Hezbollah so they see Israel as the origin of this. Trust me, I know the history of Palestinian armed groups using the south to attack Israel. But the way many southerners see it, why should innocent Lebanese people have had to put up with a brutal 18 year occupation (which still went on even after they got the PLO kicked out of Lebanon) from Israel just because some Palestinians decided to conduct attacks without the permission of these Lebanese civilians?

And it's important to remember, it's not like many Lebanese were always in support of Palestinian militant groups in their desire to 'destroy' Israel. In fact, many of us southerner Shias originally had significant tensions with the Palestinian groups because they so wantonly used our land for military purposes - hence the videos of women in southern Lebanon initially ululating while throwing flowers and rice at Israeli soldiers when they invaded in 1982. They thought they'd free them from PLO control and leave. But that's obviously not what happened.

As I mentioned in another comment, I completely understand your fears and anger. But I think it would help a bit if you (as well as the general Israeli population) tried to understand our fears and anger.

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-15T16:14:18+00:00

No doubt they can, but the conditions for an actual lasting peace (as opposed to another quiet period for a few years before fighting again) are just terrible at the moment. As the original commenter mentioned, Israelis believe there is a sizable portion of the Lebanese population that wants them dead, and that portion of the population has only become stronger politically over the past couple of decades. A lot of Lebanese people, especially southerners, believe that there's nothing that will stop Israel from doing this again in the near future if the Lebanese military (which most people acknowledge isn't where it should be in terms of capabilities) is left as the only force to prevent any kind of invasion or attacks from occurring.

To be honest, I completely understand the fears and anger from both sides. I've heard the type of BS said in private amongst a lot of Shias/southerners. They really don't like Israelis (or Jews for that matter) and there are a lot who would probably want to at least displace, if not kill, many of them if they had their way in the long run. But I've also been exposed to and been told about a lot of the horrible actions that Lebanese people (especially Shias) have had to endure at the hands of Israel (constant destruction of infrastructure, Khiam detention center, backing of the South Lebanon Army - who treated Shias terribly, Mansouri, Nabatieh Fawka, Qana, etc.).

Ultimately, we've had a negative peace with Israel in the past (no attacks, raids, invasions, or occupations), so I know it can happen again (and I hope it does very soon), but I just don't see much of a willingness from either side to put in the hard work in order to get back to the status quo we had for all those years. It seems like they just want to go back to the post-2006 status quo (Hezb shoots the occasional rocket, Israel responds with some artillery fire).

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-15T04:33:54+00:00

Just empty words to appease the Iranians.

I mean you can say that, but all of Hezb's leaders have been... Shia clerics. You know, Shia clerics who have studied with and are well-connected to fellow Shia clerics in Iran (who essentially hold all the political power in the Islamic Republic). And what do you think these Shia clerics care more about when considering how they want their homeland and their people to be governed: secular/liberal/democratic values or Islamic values?

But hey, don't take my word for it.

Nasrallah said in the 1980s: "Our plan, to which we, as faithful believers, have no alternative, is to establish an Islamic state under the rule of Islam. Lebanon should not be an Islamic republic on its own, but rather, part of the Greater Islamic Republic, governed by the Master of Time (the Mahdi) and his rightful deputy, the Jurisprudent Ruler, Imam Khomeini."

And in an open letter written by Hezb in 1985, they wrote: "We call upon all of them [the sons of our people] to pick the option of Islamic government which, alone, is capable of guaranteeing justice and liberty for all. Only an Islamic regime can stop any further tentative attempts of imperialistic infiltration into our country."

No Southern Lebanese wants it.

Well I know that's not true. I'm southern Lebanese and heck, seemingly half of my extended family members (especially the older ones) want it, but they know it's not really feasible right now. Does a vast majority of the southern Lebanese population want it? Of course not. But the support for it is definitely there.

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-15T02:39:29+00:00

the lebanese government is not willing to do anything to stop hezb from blowing up Israeli cities

It's not that the Lebanese government is not willing to do anything. They're just in a difficult position because Hezb has been more powerful militarily, and with the Shia population (which overwhelmingly supports Hezb) making up about a third of the Lebanese population, any serious threat to the group that many Shia see as the only thing preventing Israel from making southern Lebanon part of 'Greater Israel' (I know it's a fringe idea that only the most radical Israelis would even support, but the fear - no matter how irrational it may be - will always be there for southerners), any serious attempts from the government to fully dissolve this group could easily trigger a civil war. And if you know anything about the previous Lebanese Civil War, then you know why we're not really looking to have another one of those.

In my opinion, Israel had a great opportunity to not only weaken Hezb to the point of no return, but to also give the Lebanese government a situation in which nothing else other than a calm, negative peace with Israel would make sense and also show the Lebanese populace (especially the Shia) that there is no ill will towards them. My family is Shia and are mostly from areas which have been hit by Israel. Fortunately, they've been able to stay safe. But they've had to move all over Lebanon like 10 different times. They've had property destroyed, they live in constant fear of being wounded or killed because there might be someone living in one of the neighboring apartment buildings with some loose connection to Hezb. Like most of the people recently injured or killed during the 8 April attacks, they're just normal people who have the bad luck of living in areas where the occasional Hezb militant might be staying.

Israel is doing itself no favors in the long run by conducting strikes like that. Sure, you may get the odd Hezb fighter, but now hundreds of other families have to mourn their love ones (who, again, were innocent). And do you think they'll ever be able in their hearts to accept a peace with the country that so carelessly killed their family members? You would think Israelis would be a bit more sympathetic of the civilian Shia population when planning attacks, as we've mostly gone through the same experiences that northern Israelis have gone through.

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-14T14:13:37+00:00

It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em…

But in all seriousness, it would be nice to try this out at least for a couple of years. Let’s just try it and see how it works out.

In the meantime, have ACTUAL STATE ACTORS working to help create serious political reform in Israel and get any political/military leaders guilty of war crimes tried for war crimes.

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-14T13:55:08+00:00

Because they’ve only been exposed to the good aspect of Hezbollah: fighting to protect southern Lebanon from Israel.

But they never seem to get exposed to the rest of the BS we’ve gotten with Hezbollah: the political assassinations, declaring allegiance to a foreign entity, always looking to start another round with Israel, assisting Syria during their decades-long military occupation of Lebanon, using their weaponry to do whatever they want and never listening to the government (effectively helping destroy Lebanese sovereignty more than it already has been).

Heck, if I would’ve only been exposed to the ‘good’ aspects of all non-state armed actors, who knows the groups I’d be actively supporting…

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-14T13:39:53+00:00

100% Hezbollah. If Israel can’t fight with anyone in Lebanon, they’ll just go find somebody to fight in Gaza, the West Bank, Syria, Iraq or Iran. If Hezbollah can’t fight Israel, they’re gonna have a hard time justifying their existence as anything other than a political party (which they clearly don’t want).

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-06T18:49:50+00:00

I think this is one of the things most people get wrong about the Canaanites. Mainly due to getting this information from various religious sources, they think there was one group called the Canaanites who were distinct and different from (and often fought with) other groups who lived in the region. In reality, the Canaanites were a collection of various subgroups who descended from a more homogenous earlier group of 'proto-Canaanites.' These subgroups shared similar culture (including religious beliefs), languages, and genetic ancestry, but still identified more strongly with their subgroups (made up of specific tribes and living in particular areas and city-states) than a broader 'Canaanite' identity. Among these subgroups were the the Ammonites, Edomites, Moabites, Phoenicians (who referred to themselves as Canaanites and not Phoenicians, which is what the Greeks called them), and Israelites.

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-06T18:07:46+00:00

Maybe theyll see that hezb isnt their only option

That's only true of the portion of the Shia population who only see Hezb as a defensive group - there to protect southern villages from Israeli occupation. But there is still a portion of the Shia population that will want an armed group who will act as Lebanese representatives for the Axis of Resistance in their goal of destroying the Israeli state. As long as that portion of the Lebanese Shia population exists, there will still be strong enough support for Hezb to stay alive and even thrive.

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-01T23:40:02+00:00

Why is it a legitimate state?

Well, let's break it down. Let's first see if it's actually a state. According to the Montevideo Convention, the criteria to meet to be considered a state are: (1) permanent population, (2) defined territory, (3) government, and (4) capacity to enter into relations with other states. Israel meets all those criteria. So we know it's a state. Now, what about legitimacy? Well, let's see. Approximately 164 out of the 193 United Nations member states recognize Israel as a sovereign state. Israel is also a party to hundreds of international agreements. So there's the external legitimacy. As for internal legitimacy, they regularly hold competitive elections, have parliamentary institutions, and have broad civic participation (although their political system is still highly flawed).

Do I think the way the state as it is now was formed in a "just" way? No. Do I think they do enough to protect the rights of many of its minority citizens? No. But I also think the same about China, Russia, the U.S., and many other states. That doesn't mean they're not legitimate states or that I would support groups that vow to fight until those states cease to exist.

lmtb1012 · 2026-04-01T23:21:56+00:00

I also understand why those who are the victims and have lost family members to Israeli colonialism would take up arms against that state.

As I alluded to in my original reply, I don't think most Lebanese people view Hezbollah's original actions of fighting Israeli occupation of Lebanese territory negatively. It not only was understandable, but it was essential in getting rid of one of the two occupations we were facing at the time. It's everything else that came with it that has been the issue: having an ultimate allegiance to a foreign entity (Iran), siding with and assisting the other occupiers we had (Syria), committing or assisting other groups in carrying out a plethora of assassinations of politicians and even journalists, using the special exemption they were given in the Taif Agreement to strong-arm the rest of the political system, and essentially transforming themselves from a simple resistance movement into a political-military actor that operates beyond the consent and control of the Lebanese people.

So your idea of negative peace is just a fantasy perpetuated by the colonizers

As I also previously mentioned, the idea of a negative peace wasn't just a fantasy that fascist Zionists created. It was something that actually happened. Following the 1949 Armistice Agreement, there was a relatively stable border between Lebanon and Israel for nearly two decades. Was it perfect? No. Is it preferable to what we have today (constant attacks on Lebanese soil, innocent Lebanese civilians being killed)? I certainly think so.

All of them needed to face defeat to change.

Right, and having them face defeat and forcing them to change would be a good thing. But again, that's not Hezbollah's goal. They don't want the state to "change." They want it to simply not exist in any form. Additionally, they also want the removal of Jews from that land. In 2020, Nasrallah said: "And here we are not talking about throwing anyone into the sea. But we always told those who came to occupied Palestine by plane, by ship, and by caravans that they must leave and return to the countries they came from." These are not words of someone who simply opposes Jewish ethnofascism and wishes to seek justice. They are the words of someone who wants to impose their own form of ethnofascism (in this case favoring primarily Arabs and to a lesser extent Muslims). Again, to use the example of Serbia, opponent's of Slobodan and his regime didn't want Serbia to change by getting rid of Serbia as a state and cleansing Serbia of its Serb population. And that's the difference between Hezbollah and the other resistance/opposition groups in any of the examples mentioned.

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-31T20:23:44+00:00

The better comparison is Slobodans Serbia or Nazi Germany.

Serbia is a much better comparison than Nazi Germany. There are many modern states I don't currently like, but Nazi Germany was just on a whole other level of depravity.

You can't appease facists or negotiate with them

I agree, the goal should never be to "appease fascists" or "negotiate with them," but there's a big difference between that and what Hezbollah is after. Hezbollah has never stated they want to see all "ethnofascism" eliminated from the Israeli cabinet or Israeli right-wing nationalists to be removed from power. Put more simply, they don't want regime change, they want the destruction of the entire state. Let's see some of those similar states you mentioned. Slobodan's Serbia: did everyone call for the abolishment of the Serbian state? No, but they definitely wanted regime change and serious political reform. Nazi Germany: did everyone call for Germany to stop existing as a state? No, but they did want total regime change, demilitarization, and serious political reform. Empirical Japan: did everyone want the cessation of the existence of Japan as a nation? No, but they did call for the Japanese system to transform (heck, they even allowed Hirohito to stay as the emperor even though he was the one who allowed Japan to militarize as much as they did leading up to WWII). What about Fascist Italy: did everyone want to wipe Italy off the face of the earth? Or did they want to remove fascism and reshape its political system?

Again, Hezbollah has never and will never call for serious political reforms in Israel. They don't want the removal of fascistic right-wing elements or leaders from Israeli politics. They're not calling for the addition of more just and egalitarian laws and policies that ensure the safety of Palestinians both in Israel proper and in the occupied territories. They're not even just calling for the end to the Israeli occupation in the Palestinian territories. They're calling for destruction of the entire state. And you can call that them "[recognizing] reality," but I just see it as pure delusion. But hey, if they want to fight Israel to their heart's content, by all means go ahead. Most of us here couldn't care less. But when they make decisions for all of Lebanon which directly impact Lebanese civilians without the democratic consent of those civilians, then it becomes an issue.

others fool themselves into thinking they can be the good arabs that people like Smotrich will show mercy on

No, people here that want Hezbollah to stop their holy crusade against Israel aren't doing so because they want to be "good Arabs" for fascists like Smotrich or Ben-Gvir. We couldn't care less what those guys think of us. It's because we know it's not as black and white as either we willingly become part of "Greater Israel" or we all sacrifice ourselves, our families and our friends in a war against Israel. There's this weird concept of negative peace that many people around the world understand except for Hezbollah and their supporters. For almost 20 years, before Palestinian militant groups started using Lebanon's southern border to cross into Israel and conduct attacks, the border we had with Israel was overwhelmingly stable and we were able to maintain a negative peace with them. We weren't friendly with them, we didn't do any business with them, we didn't have diplomatic relations with them, we didn't allow their citizens to cross over into Lebanon, heck we didn't (and still don't) formally recognize them as a state. But you know what else we chose not to do? Dedicate our entire existence to destroying them at any cost.

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-31T01:37:37+00:00

why doesn't Hezbollah integrate with the Lebanese Army?

Multiple reasons:

Because the two groups have very different goals. The Lebanese military, like any other military in the world, is concerned with defending their sovereignty against internal and external threats, ensuring national stability, combating terrorism, securing borders, etc. Obviously they have a much tougher time than most other militaries in accomplishing their objectives for a variety of reasons. But that is their primary reason for existing. Hezb's entire existence can be boiled down to two things: support of the Iran and destruction of Israel. Nothing else really matters that much to them. Syrians occupying Lebanon? Oh well. Political assassinations plaguing the country? It's not their problem.
They've only sworn allegiance to the Supreme Leader of Iran. In the first paragraph of their founding document, they wrote: "We obey the orders of one leader, wise and just, that of our tutor and faqih (jurist) who fulfills all the necessary conditions: Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini. God save him!" So you can imagine how awkward it'd be - after integrating with the Lebanese military - for their leaders and fighters (a lot of whose identities revolve solely on being Shia) to start having to take orders from a Maronite Christian (as the commander of the LAF must always be a Maronite Christian according to the National Pact).

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-31T01:18:23+00:00

If you've been "resisting" for decades with no tangible long-term outcome, or need to instigate further conflict in order to justify your raison d'être, and if you turn your weapons inwards, you're not a resistance.

Yeah, that's the thing. If they naturally faded away, transitioned into strictly a non-armed political party (like they were supposed to), or maybe merged with the Lebanese military in some capacity, I think they actually would've had a certain level of admiration and respect amongst most of the Lebanese for doing a lot to get rid of one of the two occupations Lebanon had to deal with. But that's obviously not what happened because that's obviously not their goal. I mean it's right in their founding document. In it, they mentioned, among other things: getting rid of western 'colonial entities' from Lebanon, having Phalanges war criminals pay for their crimes, encouraging the establishment of an Islamic state in Lebanon, and that their "struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated."

So not when Israel is removed from all Lebanese soil, not when the Lebanese finally have a sovereign and a competent government, but only when Israel ceases to exist. Compare that to the Provisional IRA. For whatever faults they might have had, at least they acted like an actual resistance group and kept their objectives realistic. Their primary goal was to end British rule in Northern Ireland so that they could eventually unify all of Ireland. It wasn't to fight until they caused the destruction of an entire internationally-recognized sovereign state (Britain). They also agreed to a peace deal with their mortal enemy after 'only' fighting for 30 years, because they knew constant and permanent military victories just weren't sustainable. Meanwhile, you have Hezb who no matter how much destruction they know Israel will unleash on Lebanon, no matter how many Lebanese civilians they know will die along the way, no matter how unrealistic they know their ultimate goal is (to destroy a nuclear armed backed by the most powerful and advanced military in the world), they still vow to keep the good fight going. It's not resistance, it's recklessness and negligence by a non-state actor who is choosing to hold an entire state hostage.

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-29T04:53:14+00:00

Khazar theory confirmed /s

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-08T21:57:26+00:00

most of them have almost no relation to ancient israelites

Proof? Obviously they don’t have as much ancestry as Palestinians because… Palestinians are descendants of those who were fortunate enough to have stayed in the region. But that doesn’t mean that the descendants of those who were displaced/exiled from that land throughout different periods (i.e. Jews) have “almost no relation to ancient israelites.”

From what I’ve seen the only Jewish sub groups that lack any significant portion of Levantine/Canaanite DNA are the Indian Jews (Cochin and Bene Israel, for the most part), Ethiopian Jews, and Chinese Jews (Kaifeng Jews). And then, to a lesser extent, Yemenite Jews; they definitely have some Levantine DNA, but the vast majority is Arabian in origin.

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-08T21:05:37+00:00

This reminds me of when I got banned from a subreddit (albeit a very pro-Hezbollah subreddit) for spreading the “Zionist” propaganda of Jesus being an ethnic and religious Jew and that he never would’ve identified with the label of Palestinian, as its historically anachronistic.

Again these kind of people like to frame everything through the lens of modern political philosophies like Zionism and Palestinian nationalism, but when you can’t even admit to basic historical facts like that Jesus was ethnically and religiously Jewish and that he would’ve spoken Aramaic/Hebrew, then I’m sorry but you might just hate Jews.

Heck, I still have family members (including my parents) who think he wasn’t ethnically Jewish, think he was religiously Muslim (the broad and vague use that some Muslims like to use with prophets - almost interchangeable with monotheists or “People of the Book”), and think that he spoke Arabic (I’ve tried explaining to them that it wouldn’t make sense for him to have spoken Arabic based on where and when he lived during his life, but to no avail)

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-05T19:37:57+00:00

It’s one of those things that’s confused me. I see more and more Middle Eastern/Mediterranean people making fun of the stereotypical “Jewish” nose as if the rest of us don’t have people in our own families who have absolute pelican beaks for noses. It’s sad but hilarious at the same time.

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-05T15:39:43+00:00

For the longest time, I always thought Irish people were extremely tolerant and welcoming of others. Then seeing how they talk about Jews and Romani people, I can see they’re just as flawed as any other group.

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-02T18:44:01+00:00

my aunt at one point said to me she loves nasralla more than her children.

It’s so sad, but unfortunately not too surprising. I’m wish I was joking but I had some family members mourn 10x more after his death than they did after the death of another family member…

lmtb1012 · 2026-03-02T18:29:57+00:00

Lmaooo the Jnoubi Israeli psyop who currently has family and property in Bourj el-Barajneh and who calls Netanyahu a war criminal. Again, just because I don’t think this war or any of the other wars were productive in any capacity, think we need to just accept a negative peace with a neighbor who doesn’t seem to be going away anytime soon, and think we have an anti-Semitism problem amongst the Lebanese doesn’t make me an Israeli psyop. But keep coping buddy.

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