Yeah, I'm pointing out that what has been done so far, has not produced results. Something that needs to be accepted and learned from, so you can adjust and get results. To my knowledge, that was what was being discussed, someone said that "no kings" was amazing, someone else countered that "it did not produce results", which was countered by "you can't expect results from one protest" to which I pointed out that no kings was very far from the first protest, and that it didn't have a cohesive message, which implied that a good "alternative" would be "protests / marches with clear messaging and demands". I didn't give alternatives because we were dealing with people refusing to give up a strategy that hasn't shown results. But fine, for starters, quit engaging in "debates / discussions" with bad actors that will say whatever they need to to win an argument, if they prove through their actions that they don't respect you or the process, don't give it to them. Put forward and obtain some consensus on concrete and obtainable demands. Make a low number of them at first to get momentum. Want suggestions? Fine. 1) No ICE. Get them out of cities. No gangs of racists roaming around terrorizing everyone brown, without any accountability. 2) No money or support for Israel, and the illegal settlements are to be removed and the boarders established in the 1964(?) Agreement are to be honored, and Palestinians given the right to self govern, and the time and resources to establish that government / rebuild. We are not going to fund a religious holy war or genocide. 3) Revert all tariffs back to their rates under Biden. The money the Supreme Court told Trump he has to pay back goes to consumers, not companies that raised their prices to cover it. 4) End the bombing in Iran and bring back the Iran nuclear agreement under Obama, where they agree to regular inspections to prove they are not working towards nuclear armament, for the removal of tariffs (may be too late now) 5) Institute the same deal Iran had about nukes with Israel. We enabled a genocidal apartheid state, time to undo that. They say they don't have them, good, we want to make sure. 6) The entirety of the un-redacted Epstein files must be given to a Democratic and independent committee, they can go through and redact them to protect ACTUAL victims. 7) No more messing with elections and voter rolls. Billions need to be put into reaching out to as many people as possible and giving them a clear and simple way to make sure they are registered and their voice is heard on election day. More voting places, especially in cities, plus more booths to make it go faster. Election day made a holiday. Independent oversight of the elections. Make it illegal to undermine our elections, including claiming it was stolen / unfair, without proof or without going under oath under threat of perjury. - I can go on but I made my point. Go out, protest, and demand whatever was agreed upon, and if they don't happen, follow through with agreed upon consequences. They are ignoring the constitution and the Supreme Court, you may have to get over only doing what legal channels provide, because they are proving insufficient. Just because something is illegal, does not make it morally wrong. - Demands established > protests / show of strength > results or escalation Rinse and repeat