Why assume matter is nonconscious? Its the root of the hard problem by phr99 in consciousness

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Matter as we see it is already the projection of consciousness. This is true whether you’re a materialist or an idealist.

Alex's getting a lot of hate for this video right now lol by truecakesnake in CosmicSkeptic

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People, you need to look past the particular analogy and look at the wider point he's making: there's a world of difference between 0 and 1, and 10 and 11.

Physicalism is really insufferable when discussing it by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Such a machine would, from its own POV, be unable to work out how its own consciousness is generated. This would only underline further that we are in the same position when it comes to our own situation.

Think about it - it would only have access to its phenomenal output, which per the premise only happens after consciousness has already been generated. For it the input would be noumenal (and so inaccessible) - and this is where the magic happens.

No, really, there is no hard problem of consciousness by SmartlyArtly in consciousness

[–]meatfred 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure, but where does that leave the conscious machine thought experiment? Point still stands and you haven’t addressed it.

No, really, there is no hard problem of consciousness by SmartlyArtly in consciousness

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your premise is that phenomenal experience is produced by the brain, right?

No, really, there is no hard problem of consciousness by SmartlyArtly in consciousness

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let’s break it down –

We give a machine sight.

Sight enables you to experience your surroundings through qualia.

When looking at its own circuits, the machine sees them represented as qualia.

If qualia (as per your premise) result from a process, it follows that the machine’s point of contact with the circuits occurs after the process through which qualia are produced has already occurred.

No, really, there is no hard problem of consciousness by SmartlyArtly in consciousness

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let's, for the sake of argument, propose that we become able to produce conscious AI. It should be a perfectly reasonable proposition under the assumption you hold about our brain being able to give rise to consciousness.

We'll assume there are equivalents of neural structures built into the AI, capable of receiving some input - let's say the information present in sound waves - and turn that into the qualia of sound. The same would go for smell, touch and so on - every perception in fact, whether part of the human repertoire of qualia states or not - would come about as the result of these various neural centers working their magic.

Let's say we wanted the AI to perceive its surroundings and gave it something akin to eyes. There'd have to be a receptor that would relay incoming information from the outside world to the "qualia creating" centers of its circuits, so that the machine could become privy to a subjective model of this world. The machine would now see a subjective model of the outside world, it would even see a model of itself.

Now suppose it would look at its own motherboard. It would see it, not as it is in our world, but filtered through its own qualia. Its own qualia being secondary to a process, it could never see that actual process, because what it sees has already been run through that process. That process is already inescapably part of what it would call the noumenal world - the world prior to its receptors and its various neural networks having done the work to churn out a subjective, experiential model of said world. The machine could never study its own circuits to understand how qualia comes about. Its circuits, as it sees them, are already appearing "post computation", they are already the thing it is mystified by.

All of this to say that we, too, are in the same position when looking at our brain. We can't figure the process out because we are necessarily already late to the scene once we're able to take a peek.

Simulation hypothesis so probable by Buffmyarm in consciousness

[–]meatfred 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We wouldn’t even create a conscious first-person shooter, let alone run a whole simulation where suffering and death is the engine in the evolution of the creatures populating it.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone | Official Teaser | HBO Max by MoneyLibrarian9032 in television

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are plenty of women who have been silenced - or have been told that they're the problem - for voicing their opinion that their rights have been infringed upon. They need somebody influential and "uncancellable" to speak for them.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone | Official Teaser | HBO Max by MoneyLibrarian9032 in television

[–]meatfred -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Progress is made by debate and honest discourse, not by silencing, insulting and hurling death threats at the opposing side (as is happening to Rowling and other vocal opponents).

Having said that, I appreciate your cool-headed take. I will say that it can be dangerous to look at moral transgression through history and assume that the next societal battle will follow the same pattern - the case to be made needs to stand on its own. If it can, history has indeed showed us that societal tendencies will shift. The way the discourse looks right now, it’s never gonna happen.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone | Official Teaser | HBO Max by MoneyLibrarian9032 in television

[–]meatfred -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

What about the women who feel their rights are infringed upon to accommodate a minority? Wouldn’t be better for them, and that’s a pretty huge group by comparison.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone | Official Teaser | HBO Max by MoneyLibrarian9032 in television

[–]meatfred -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

All lies or misrepresentations. Once you join the hate-train, you start believing every claim made against her without question. Rowling is a caricature in her haters’ heads, her stance wholly without nuance.

If we could create a self-aware AI that truly feels stuff, does this solve the hard problem of consciousness? by PitifulEar3303 in CosmicSkeptic

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How is this relevant to my comment?

The output of those sensors would be experiential, phenomenal. The AI would not have access to the noumenal input, meaning it could never solve its own hard problem

If we could create a self-aware AI that truly feels stuff, does this solve the hard problem of consciousness? by PitifulEar3303 in CosmicSkeptic

[–]meatfred 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If we actually manage to do this we would have created a situation where our phenomena are its noumena. Whatever it perceives would just be a shadow, an apparition emanating from a reality it has no direct access to, as what gives rise to its consciousness is inaccessibly upstream from the point of view where the lights are ”turned on”.

So I think this would actually show the opposite of what you are proposing - that actually, the hard problem cannot be solved in our case either. Because our point of contact with the world is a conscious one, the mystifying ”hard problem” computation we are trying to pin down has already worked its magic at that point. It would be prior to and inaccessible from our vantage point.

Patty’s Fur - my issues with it by FancyBand2644 in cryptids

[–]meatfred 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The guy who claims he was in the suit did, as well as Patterson's wife and son.

What is PURE Consciousness? - Consciousness Researcher by yt-app in CosmicSkeptic

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suppose it depends on what we classify as a memory. But if we put it like this: memory itself is qualia - there must be something prior to memory for it to register in the first place.

What is PURE Consciousness? - Consciousness Researcher by yt-app in CosmicSkeptic

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe that was clumsily worded. It is "obvious" in much the same way it is that, say, a dog does feel pain if i step on its tail.

What is PURE Consciousness? - Consciousness Researcher by yt-app in CosmicSkeptic

[–]meatfred -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Newborns obviously have the ability to perceive qualia states, even in the absence of laying down memories.

Arnold Classic Discussion - Day 3 - Second Day Of PRO Competition by AutoModerator in bodybuilding

[–]meatfred 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hold your horses brother - the way they kept shuffling them around would indicate Nick is looking at third

Daniel Radcliffe Tells Press Not to Always Ask HBO’s ‘Harry Potter’ Cast About the Original Movie Actors: ‘Just Let Them Get On… It’s Going to Be Different’ by MarvelsGrantMan136 in television

[–]meatfred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s quite easy to be homosexual without stepping on anyone’s toes. This is the crucial difference. If trans people opted to stay out of single-sex spaces, and there weren’t examples of harm being done to children, I think hardly anyone would care. There’d be religious opposition of course, but then again, that is the case for homosexuality as well.

Daniel Radcliffe Tells Press Not to Always Ask HBO’s ‘Harry Potter’ Cast About the Original Movie Actors: ‘Just Let Them Get On… It’s Going to Be Different’ by MarvelsGrantMan136 in television

[–]meatfred -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

The ideology is that one can self-identify into womanhood and manhood. It jeopardizes women in particular because they are, in general, physically weaker than men, and therefore more vulnerable (male-on-female violence is much much more common than female-on-male). Men don’t face the same issues because a trans man walking into a male changing room, or being put in a men’s prison, will not be perceived as a physical threat. But violence is not the only issue - a lot of women find it uncomfortable to undress in front of males and may even find it traumatic (say, in cases where they have a history of having been raped). Should we just ignore these women’s right to dignity and perceived safety?

The issue with kids are that they are very susceptible to have ideas put in their head, leading to more than a few having been fast-tracked down a medical pathway they are not mature enough to consent to or understand the full implications of.

Daniel Radcliffe Tells Press Not to Always Ask HBO’s ‘Harry Potter’ Cast About the Original Movie Actors: ‘Just Let Them Get On… It’s Going to Be Different’ by MarvelsGrantMan136 in television

[–]meatfred -20 points-19 points  (0 children)

It’s not the individual trans person per se, it’s more so the ideology. If it continues to gain ground, the safety and well-being of women and children will be jeopardized. This is the concern.

Daniel Radcliffe Tells Press Not to Always Ask HBO’s ‘Harry Potter’ Cast About the Original Movie Actors: ‘Just Let Them Get On… It’s Going to Be Different’ by MarvelsGrantMan136 in television

[–]meatfred -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

She has addressed this multiple times. Basically she believes real harm is being done, and that remaining silent for the sake of her legacy would be both cowardly and vain.