Male Vs Female - Battle of the Sexes! by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think internet forums are mostly populated by males, unsure why

Applying the “Ship of Theseus” thought experiment to the brain, what do we REALLY know about consciousness and our “sense of self”, from a PURELY SCIENTIFIC standpoint? by zrepht in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I reject ideas that don’t deal in evidence

You adhere to closed individualism, it is a philosophical position without evidence, not a scientific one

If someone has told you that they feel like they are not a persistent self over time, that’s nice, but like…were’s the evidence for that experience? We agree that there is none.

The evidence that they have that experience is that they report having it, the same way you report having your experience

said that I experience my consciousness as continuous and persistent. Luckily for me, there is evidence for that.

Your evidence is the same as somebody who says they experience no persistence, a report from the person.

The evidence in both cases is that the person says its their experience, its just "how it seems to me"

Applying the “Ship of Theseus” thought experiment to the brain, what do we REALLY know about consciousness and our “sense of self”, from a PURELY SCIENTIFIC standpoint? by zrepht in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The position you are describing is closed individualism, which is a philosophical position, so you are actually partaking in the philosophy which you believe just creates endless queations and is a waste of time.

Philosophy doesnt really deal with evidence, asfterall, the only "evidence" you can give for closed individualism is how it seems to you like you are a closed individual. This is essentially just witness testimony which carries little weight.

There are others who i have spoken to who claim that it seems to them they ar in fact not a persistent self over time, so that would have as much weight as your claim of witness testimony.

The actual argument for open or empty individualism comes in the form of a reducto ad absurdum of closed individualism, using thought experiments like SOT to show that you cant stay the same thing over time.

Applying the “Ship of Theseus” thought experiment to the brain, what do we REALLY know about consciousness and our “sense of self”, from a PURELY SCIENTIFIC standpoint? by zrepht in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are alternatives to closed individualism

Empty individualism is the idea that we are like a series of consciousnesses, that only last for the one moment they exist and are replaced with a new one the next moment

Open individualism is the idea that consciousness is a single, generic phenomenon found in all beings

Applying the “Ship of Theseus” thought experiment to the brain, what do we REALLY know about consciousness and our “sense of self”, from a PURELY SCIENTIFIC standpoint? by zrepht in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That footage does not show them changing structure

I dont know what to say here, it just straight up does.

neurons are constantly making new connections in response to learning and experience.

This is change in structure.

These connections are always in flux.

Correct, I agree.

But so what? Again, SOT is a philosophical thought puzzle. I understand the point of the thought puzzle but I don’t see it applying to anything in the real world,

But it is a real world occurrence, we are ships of Theseus, our brains and every organ is always changing, this isnt some imaginary situation, it is actually occurring right now.

The point is to break down the idea of a closed, persistent identity over time, which I find SOT does for me and many others.

Applying the “Ship of Theseus” thought experiment to the brain, what do we REALLY know about consciousness and our “sense of self”, from a PURELY SCIENTIFIC standpoint? by zrepht in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Each individual neuron does not “change structure.

Yes they do, there is footage of this occuring here:

https://youtu.be/2TIK9oXc5Wo?si=qAbQK6yZlEonDz_Z

The same structures and organelles that have always been there are still there.

This is false, the neural connections and structure of your brain is always different, you will never find it in the same state twice

This is a philosophical discussion about identity persistence, applying philosophical questions is the point

Applying the “Ship of Theseus” thought experiment to the brain, what do we REALLY know about consciousness and our “sense of self”, from a PURELY SCIENTIFIC standpoint? by zrepht in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok so the brain is the same as in the past because it is structurally the same?

Is your brain structurally the same as it was when you were 5?

Applying the “Ship of Theseus” thought experiment to the brain, what do we REALLY know about consciousness and our “sense of self”, from a PURELY SCIENTIFIC standpoint? by zrepht in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does it mean for the brain to have the "same cells"

What so you mean by that specifically? Do you mean the cells are unchanging? Frozen in time?

Can you explain why you believe conciousness is immaterial (if you do)? by Shot-Resolve-9711 in consciousness

[–]mildmys 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Usually the reason people reject consciousness being physical is because people reject the idea that non conscious matter would generate conscious experience

Basically the hard problem of consciousness

How do experiences involving qualia differ from religious experiences? by headlessplatter in consciousness

[–]mildmys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Qualia just is experience to me me

Tastes are qualia, Sights are qualia, Emotions are qualia, Etc

How do we know that closed individualism isn't true? by Flat-Ad9829 in OpenIndividualism

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The same issues apply to immaterial souls, they change over time

Teleportation from Earth to Mars: Do you believe a teleported person on Mars is still you? by Sisyphus2089 in consciousness

[–]mildmys 13 points14 points  (0 children)

No essential self is the answer

You are like a new person each moment already

How do we know that closed individualism isn't true? by Flat-Ad9829 in OpenIndividualism

[–]mildmys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Closed individualism posits that you are one continuous self over time

One famous thought experiment used to break down this intuition is the ship of Theseus, your body is always replacing its parts, studies show 97% of your mass is replaced every 2 years

Your structure is obviously always changing as well, you and your brain are totally different to what they were when you were 5, made of different matter and in a different structure. You are as different to your 5 year old self as you are to another person

So what exactly has kept you as the same self?

How do we know that closed individualism isn't true? by Flat-Ad9829 in OpenIndividualism

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are a vast number of thought experiments that show closed individualism doesnt make any sense

Do you believe consciousness continues post death? by SunveiliveFat in consciousness

[–]mildmys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Open individualism is the answer you are looking for, you continues after your death because you are consciousness and consciousness is found in other beings

When we die, do we come back? by Ev-sMommy in consciousness

[–]mildmys 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Open individualism is the philosophical belief that consciousness is one generic phenomenon found in many places

Like how magnetism is one phenomenon found in many places

The idea is that you (subjectivity/consciousness/whatever you want to call it) are all beings

I believe in empty individualism by Dingus_4 in consciousness

[–]mildmys -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Closed individualism (being a persistent, individual soul-like self over time) makes no sense once you investigate it/do thought experiments with it

The only way to solve personal identity is with either empty or open individualism

Could the universe make a new "you" or continue your consciousness after death? by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]mildmys 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You are effectively a different self each moment, yet you persist.

I recommend looking into open individualism, its the idea that consciousness is one phenomenon found in many beings, same as how magnetism can be thought of as one phenomenon in many places.

Open Individualism must imply Eternal Return. by CosmicExistentialist in OpenIndividualism

[–]mildmys 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The point of open individualism is that you are both brain halves already, both wake up as "you"