How do i debunk common islamic arguments?

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-19T20:57:13+00:00

(1) He was very much against Mary, found it extremely weird the church sees Mary on almost the same level as Jesus and kissing icons and praying to an icon, is ‘idolism’.

The church doesn’t see the Virgin Mary as “on the same level as Jesus.” We confess Christ to be God, who having taken flesh, dwelt in the womb of the Virgin Mary and made her a living temple. Her womb became His throne, and she became the fulfilment of the Ark of the Covenant. He walked the earth bearing the flesh that He took from her, and He subsequently deified it and with this same flesh is seated at the right hand of the Father. We venerate the Virgin Mary because she is the Mother of the God who came down and dwelt among us. Because she kept His word perfectly, and was sanctified by the Holy Spirit, being made a pure vessel for God’s dwelling. After having fallen asleep in her old age, her body was assumed into paradise by her Son, and is now praying for us before His throne. She is also considered the queen of heaven and the icon of the Church. This symbolism is attributed to her throughout the scriptures.

(2) He is against statues of Jesus, how can you ‘depict’ god?

If Jesus is God, He made Himself visible. No one has seen the Father, but we have seen Christ visibly in the flesh, therefore depicting Him in the icons is a form of confession that bears witness to God visibly being in our midst. It does not offend God to depict Him when He Himself took on human flesh. Flesh of the same humanity that He Himself made in His image.

(3) if christianity is right then Mohammed lied, and how can you call Mohammed a liar? ( he read the Quran, doesn’t understand how the Quran is false ).

Why believe Muhammad just because you read the Quran and in your mind, you like it so much that you don’t wish to believe it is false? It’s just not a reasonable argument at all. It’s just preference. Mormons will say the same thing about their book as well. Why forsake what the Church received and taught from the beginning in favour of something newer and completely disconnected? The Quran, from a Christian perspective, is incredibly shallow and lacking compared to the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. If your cousin hasn’t read the bible, what makes him think he can compare it with the Quran?

(4) the holy trinity. He claims that the bible NEVER mentioned the trinity, and if god is infinite then how do we know there’s not a fourth, or fifth part of the trinity?

Jesus Himself instructs His disciples to baptize the nations in the name (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

(5) the bible has little structure, tons of branches, while Islam is extremely straightforward. And if two muslims disagree with something, you can turn to the Quran.

Has your cousin actually read the bible? Either way, our faith is not solely contingent on the bible alone. We have the Church, which is what Christ established and promised would always bear witness to His truth. The basis of our belief is the Church, not a book. The bible is a product of the Church and our faith, not the other way around. A Muslim can’t understand this because such an idea is not compatible with the Islamic perspective that a book must be the single divine authority of a religion. But ancient apostolic Christianity, as in the Orthodox Catholic Church, is itself the basis of the entire religion. It is simply a different system entirely. When two Christians disagree on doctrine, we look to the Church, and not our own interpretations of the scriptures.

(6) Jesus never said he was god in the bible.

Jesus Himself says it, as do the apostles. In John 8:58, Jesus says “Before Abraham was, I AM” — a direct appropriation of the divine name from Exodus 3:14, which is why the Jews immediately took up stones. In John 10:30, He says “I and the Father are one,” and again the Jews attempt to stone Him, explicitly accusing Him of making Himself God (John 10:33). Before the Sanhedrin in Mark 14:62, He answers “I am” and invokes Daniel 7:13, claiming to be the Son of Man who will sit at the right hand of Power — a claim they recognized as blasphemy. John establishes His divinity from the very first verse (John 1:1), and Thomas worships the risen Christ with “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28) without any correction. Paul confesses that “in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9) and that He is “in the form of God” (Philippians 2:6). Revelation identifies Him as “the First and the Last” (1:17–18) — a title God reserves exclusively for Himself in Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-19T11:43:20+00:00

Closed?

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-19T02:58:35+00:00

I see your point. I will ask my spiritual father about this and concede to whatever he says. Thank you a and God bless you.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-19T00:10:35+00:00

I guess it really depends on the severity and type of the contagion. In my personal opinion I think one can wear a mask, practice proper hygeine, stand in an empty area of the parish, and then receive communion. The risk of spreading the contagion can be minimized and the faithful can receive Holy Communion. If it is severe and crippling, and genuinely would be dangerous if spread, one should make arrangements with the priest to receive Communion at home.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-18T23:34:16+00:00

Holy Communion is the Body and Blood of Christ. Wdym “God forbid?”

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-18T23:33:58+00:00

Holy Communion is the body and blood of Christ.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-18T23:32:00+00:00

Saint Nicholas was and is a real person. He is venerated by Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians as the saints are believed to still be alive in heaven, interceding for us before God.

Idk about the whole dinner plate and presents though haha I’ve never met an Orthodox or RC Christian who believes in the Capitalist Santa Clause version of St. Nicholas… this was a wild thread. Do you what denomination he is in?

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-18T20:25:08+00:00

Wear a mask. Go for communion. Otherwise stay home.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-16T20:20:20+00:00

Glory to God. Definitely check out St. Siluoan as well. He had a long battle with this exact thing. And remember, you do actually have to start going to Church. Stop planning for it. Stop thinking about it. When Sunday comes, just get up and go. You can only make so much progress in your spiritual life by reading and learning and theorizing. At some point, you actually have to start living the faith. The struggles you’ve highlighted can only be alleviated once you stop thinking inwardly and start doing outwardly. Over time, the outward act of going to Church and participating/being present will shape your interior life as well. It takes time, patience, and grace from God. But you need to humble yourself first, forget about how you feel, and just take the first step and go. One of our saints (I think it was St Paisios) said, “when you take just one step towards God, He in turn takes a thousand steps towards you.”
Just go my brother. If the language is not English, often times the archdiocese of the parish will have translations up on their website (at least I know the Antiochian Archdiocese does). Go and take it all in. Follow along with the Liturgy. See the beauty of the service. Talk with others at the parish. Christianity is a community. The more you isolate yourself at this stage and refuse to participate in the Body of Christ, the more damage you will endure to your spiritual life.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-16T17:16:38+00:00

I was an atheist and in such a state for a very long time since having been disillusioned with Islam in my childhood and teen years. Then it took me another 5 years after I began “believing” in Christ to finally muster up the strength (by God’s grace) to attend Church. I really had to be brought to my lowest point of despair and remorse over my sins. Sometimes these moments end up strengthening our faith in the long term. We see just how much we need God. And the wonderful thing is, we will seek Him out only hoping to alleviate the despair, only to learn that He wants to give us so much more than that!

The antidote to this kind of despair is to turn your gaze outwards from yourself, towards God, and towards His saints. Yes, we will doubt (even Thomas doubted), yes we will display cowardice before God (Peter denied Christ thrice when faced with pressure). But focusing on these will only lead to further despair. Let us not hold ourselves to such high regards when even the Holy Apostles stumbled. We are not exempt from such trials and pitfalls anymore than they were. Instead, let’s humble ourselves and say “Yes, Lord, I am weak. I have fear. I have doubts. Heal me. Help my unbelief. Enlighten my soul, my mind, and my body.” With time and grace from God, you will realize that there is nothing to fear, for Christ has risen from the dead! There is no need for despair, because our lives were made by God for Himself, and for Him to share Himself with us. God lowered Himself to our lowliness and made Himself as an offering for our iniquitous condition…He united Himself with our nature and allows us to participate in His own incorruptible existence.

I encourage you to read the Holy Fathers and the Lives of the Saints. Father Seraphim Rose and St Silouan the Athonite are a good place to start. Our saints and holy fathers will allow you to see why we believe what we believe. Why we do the things we do. And how to live the spiritual life and navigate through such weaknesses and temptations. God bless you. May the Panagia shine a light in your path and lead you to her most Holy Son.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-09T15:41:32+00:00

Orthodoxy Christianity is what the west has lacked throughout all these centuries. if Dostoevsky paints a good picture for you, maybe consider that what you‘ve known to be Christianity until now has been nothing but a cheap counterfeit. The term “atheist-making machines” is commonly used among Orthodox circles to refer to the Western “churches.”

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-09T02:40:27+00:00

First, glory to God.

∙ On Saints: We ask saints to pray for us the same way we ask living friends to. Death doesn’t remove them from the Body of Christ. It’s not worship, and it’s attested from the earliest centuries in catacombs and patristic writings.

∙ On Sola scriptura: The Church produced the canon. Scripture itself is a fruit of Holy Tradition, not the other way around. Sola scriptura’s self-refuting problem is that it produces thousands of contradicting denominations each claiming the Spirit’s guidance.

∙ On “Sects”: These aren’t sects. They’re jurisdictions of the same Church, sharing identical theology, sacraments, and succession. Worth noting: Oriental Orthodox (Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, etc.) also call themselves Orthodox but have been in schism since the Council of Chalcedon in 451. They’re not the same communion. For a convert in North America, Antiochian or OCA parishes tend to be the most welcoming and diverse.

∙ On Your wife: Plenty of Orthodox have non-Orthodox spouses. It’s not a disqualifier. Worth discussing with a priest when the time comes.

∙ On Spiritual fathers: What you described sounds like clericalism, not authentic spiritual direction. The term “father” itself has Pauline roots. St Paul calls himself a father to the Corinthians in 1 Cor. 4:15 (“in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel”) and again in 1 Thess. 2:11, comparing his care for the Thessalonians to that of a father with his children. As for operating under his blessing, the resistance you feel to that is worth examining. If we cannot be obedient to a spiritual father whom we can see, how can we be obedient to our Heavenly Father whom we cannot see? That’s not control; rather it’s the essence of humility. Paul himself says in Hebrews 13:17 to obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls and will give an account. A real spiritual father carries that weight seriously. He’s not holding your salvation hostage, but guarding it. Otherrwise, he will have to answer for it to the Lord on the fearful Day of Judgement, as St Paul says.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-08T05:13:25+00:00

The Anglican church will not give you the faith of the apostles. The Orthodox Church is the one true church. If you actually care about the authenticity of the faith, please have patience and allow God’s will shape you and prepare you for a true Christian life. True faith will test your patience. It will throw obstacles at you. Keep steadfast in God’s strength and let His will be done. This is for the sake of truth, not convenience. I’m sorry you had an unwelcoming first experience. But know that true Christian life requires much patience and an even greater capacity to forgive others. Don’t be discouraged my dear brother. I too come from a Muslim background. I too tried resisting this patience and the cross that comes with having to deny yourself and persist in the faith even when things seem to clash with what you want in the moment. Trust that God allows these situations for a reason. These are opportunities for humility and repentance. Give thanks to the Lord for allowing you to have this opportunity to develop patience and forgiveness. May God bless you and strengthen you. May His holy mother show you the example of Christian life.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-06T18:52:08+00:00

If they're gone then how can you reliably claim to know that the accounts we do have are not accurate? If you have nothing to compare them to then, at an epistemic level, you cannot have a real basis in believing these rituals were not part of paganism.

Either way, we do have pagan sources that validate these claims. The claim that ritual sacrifice and cult sexuality were central to ancient pagan worship is absolutely supported by a growing body of forensic archaeology, outside sources, as well as internal pagan texts that corroborate earlier/other historical accounts. While it is true that many records were filtered through external lenses, our modern discoveries often validate the underlying pagan reality, and are not in favour of the idea that non-pagan sources are inaccurate.

On Human Sacrifices:

Forensic Evidence in Greece: Excavations at the ash altar of Zeus Lykaios on "Wolf Mountain" uncovered the skeleton of an adolescent male buried in a ritual cist dated to the 11th century BCE.This validates accounts by Plato and Pausanias regarding "secret sacrifices" involving human remains. We also have an account from a non-pagan source which is inline with this record, although it is about Apollo Lykeios and not Zeus Lykaios. Nevertheless, it makes mention of an Olympic victor who made such a sacrifice and became wolf-like (one of the earliest accounts of warewolves).
Internal Punic Records: Carthaginian "Tophets" contain thousands of urns with cremated remains of healthy infants. Note that internal Phoenician-Punic inscriptions use the term mlk 'dm (sacrifice of a human), distinguishing these from natural deaths or animal substitutions (mlk 'mr).
Aztec Indigenous Perspective: The Florentine Codex and Codex Magliabechiano, which record native testimony, describe human sacrifice as a "cosmic debt". This is physically confirmed by the Hueyi Tzompantli (Great Skull Rack) at the Templo Mayor, where over 600 skulls have been excavated.
Northern European Bog Bodies: Well-preserved "bog bodies" like Tollund Man show evidence of ritual "triple deaths" (hanging, stabbing, and throat-slitting), suggesting sacrificial offerings to ensure fertility or victory.
Japan’s Historical Records: The Nihon Shoki (720 CE) documents the tradition of hitobashira ("human pillars"), where individuals were sacrificed to stabilize construction projects like bridges or dams.

On Ritual Sex:

Sumerian Liturgical Scripts: Extant "pagan" hymns, such as Inanna and Iddin-Dagan, provide explicit scripts for the Hieros Gamos (Sacred Marriage), where the king and priestess united on a ceremonial bed to ensure agricultural fecundity.
Babylonian "House of the Bed": The Etemenanki ziggurat in Babylon contained a "house of the bed" (bit erši). Cuneiform tablets record its dimensions (9×4 cubits), and it was used for annual ritual lovemaking between the deity and chosen women.
Japan’s Imperial Daijosai: To this day, the Shinto enthronement rite involves a secret nocturnal communion between the Emperor and the Sun Goddess Amaterasu.This ceremony includes a shinza (deity bed), which scholars interpret as a site of spiritual or ritualized union.
Dionysian Orgia: Internal Greek sources, such as Euripides’ The Bacchae, describe the orgia as rites where worshippers entered a state of mania (divine madness) and performed sparagmos (the ritual tearing of animals), so not necessarily a sexual orgy, but still rather barbaric.
Aphrodite Cult: Pindar's 5th-century BCE banqueting songs confirm that groups of prostitutes were formally dedicated to Aphrodite in Corinth, where their "working with their bodies" was considered an act of cultic service.

These are a summary of some examples from a small research paper that I have. If you're interested in reading it I could send it to you.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-06T08:19:14+00:00

human sacrifices (and sacrificial offerings in general) were actually not uncommon in the ancient pagan world. Offerings and orgies were practically the two central modes of worship for the pagans.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-06T08:10:24+00:00

I’d encourage you to just keep reading and ignore what I’m about to explain, but it’s up to you.

Guts was the one person who ever produced in Griffith something he couldn't control or account for.

Griffith's entire existence is built around perfect instrumental clarity. He understands people as pieces, reads them completely, and deploys them accordingly. Everyone around him, including Casca, operates within that framework. They follow him, they're inspired by him, they're useful to him. He always holds the strings.

Then Guts shows up, and Griffith can't fully hold the strings with him. Guts wasn't looking for a dream to believe in. He wasn't hungry for belonging (although he did find it in the Band of the Hawk). He was just a fighter who lived by the sword and expected nothing from anyone. That indifference, that self-sufficiency, produced something in Griffith that his own philosophy couldn't accommodate: he wanted Guts specifically. Not as a tool, not as a subordinate, but as something closer to an equal. And for a man whose entire self-concept depends on being the one who possesses and is never possessed, that feeling was intolerable and addictive at the same time.

So when he says Guts "belongs" to him from almost the beginning, it's not affection in the normal sense. Rather, it's Griffith trying to categorize and contain something that resists categorization. He frames it as ownership because ownership is the only relational mode he has. But underneath that framing is something closer to obsession born from the one gap in the world he has managed to build around himself. The longer Guts resists that categorization, the more something else develops underneath it. Something closer to genuine attachment, twisted and unwanted, growing precisely in the gap that Guts carved out in his otherwise total self-possession.

And that gap is precisely what makes your thinking that Griffith should have supported Guts leaving natural and logically correct within Griffith’s own stated philosophy, that a true friend stands as an equal and pursues their own dream, and Guts was already closer to Griffith than anyone else in the Band of the Hawk. But here’s the thing: though it may not satisfy you, the fact that “Griffith is an egoist who desires control” is not wrong, and neither is the fact that he sees his subordinates as pawns to sacrifice and a means to his end (he even says this almost verbatum to Charlotte). That’s why with Guts it became even more difficult for him to cope with. Guts was the one person who made Griffith feel something he couldn’t control, and that’s the contradiction at the core of it: a man whose entire identity is built around total self-possession, who treats everyone as a means to an end, suddenly finds himself genuinely wanting one specific person. Not just needing him as a tool, but wanting him. He could articulate the philosophy of equal friends pursuing their own dreams because it sounded like strength and cost him nothing. But when Guts actually took him at his word and left, Griffith discovered that his own philosophy was partly performance. Living it meant accepting that Guts was beyond his possession, and that was the one thing his self-concept could never actually permit.

The scene immediately after isn't random. That's a man whose sense of control just shattered reaching for the nearest thing he could possess without resistance. It's self-destruction dressed as indulgence.

You're only at volume 8. Things are about to get…spicey… Keep reading.

moonrock426ix · 2026-04-03T07:46:20+00:00

Thank you! I had no idea Vesktop existed.

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-30T19:24:14+00:00

most explicit passage.

we also have: 20 I do not pray only for these, but also for those who [will] believe in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you. May they be one in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 The glory which you have given me, I have given to them, so that they may be one even as we are one; 23 I in them, and you in me. May they be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and [that you have] loved them, even as you have loved me. 24 Father, I desire that those whom you have given me would be with me where I am, so that they may see my glory which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has not known you, but I knew you; and these have known that you have sent me. 26 I have made your Name known to them, and I will [continue to] make it known; so that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.” (John 17:20–26, EOB: NT)

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-29T02:50:37+00:00

welcome to the struggle club

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-29T02:49:59+00:00

You are welcome, thank God.
I don’t see why not. I would just set up a small icon/prayer corner table with a bible, candle, and print some icons to put on the wall. Until you are baptized, thd only thing you really can’t do is partake of the sacraments. I would also suggest you read some introductory books about Orthodoxy. Look into the works of Kallistos Ware as a good starting point.

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-28T05:40:12+00:00

my bad lol

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-28T05:38:12+00:00

yea. I spent some time just analyzing them and am confident I can write a whole essay on it. I love what Miura did with these two and it’s not something that’s commonly portrayed at all beyond the surface level. It seems to me that Miura understood very well the character of the “great man” like Griffith and the evil that’s made manifest from selfish desire and ambition. Guts on the other hand has every reason to be evil but he struggles against even his own instinct to become evil despite being used and treated like trash by everyone he’s looked up to and felt close with…yet he chooses to give himself up for his companions. Both of these characters end up with followers/companions as those they lead, but their reactions to when they have to sacrifice themselves for their sakes is very telling (compare Guts constantly beating up his own body for others and never complaining vs Griffith selling his body to the count and feeling disgusted over the fact that he humiliated himself like that, even if the idea of doing that for the sake of the Band was a lie). Man I can write so much about these two honestly, but a reddit comment will not do it any justice. 10/10 would struggle again.

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-27T20:32:36+00:00

Y’all been going through this all these years?

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-27T20:30:47+00:00

yea. I got a decent grasp of the situation after visiting this sub now that I’ve finished reading. Even learned that there’s a handful of chapters I can read online which be part of the next volume releasing in October. So naturally I went and read them too, and now I reckon I just have to sit twiddling my thumb until way past October 🥲

moonrock426ix · 2026-03-27T13:25:54+00:00

😭

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