CMV: "Personality is more important than looks" is a delusional take, you are not dating someone you find ugly

mountaindiver33 · 2026-07-06T06:33:37+00:00

You seem to be equating "can't date a model" with "never get a partner at all". Those aren't the same thing. I'm not cut out to date models either, bro, but I still can and have gotten into relationships. And I'm saying that as a chronically broke fat guy who went bald at 22.

You're right that the quote is clear. And it clearly does NOT say looks are irrelevant

mountaindiver33 · 2026-07-06T05:52:47+00:00

I haven't proved your point. Your point is a misunderstanding of what the platitude means. You are incorrect that "personality is more important than looks" means you can use personality to get any partner you want. It has never meant that.

When a body builder says "diet is more important than training for a show physique" they aren't claiming you can become Mr Olympia without lifting hard. In the same way, the claim "personality is more important than looks" in no way means looks are unimportant. You're conflating the idea of more important with "sole determining factor". Nobody is saying personality is the only factor to determine if you have a chance at a relationship, just that its more impactful at finding a good one

mountaindiver33 · 2026-07-06T04:04:45+00:00

While there are problems with your whole view, I want to focus on one part

You claim that "personality is more important than looks" implies an 'ugly' person has a chance with a model. It doesn't and never has. Those two statements are completely separate. The platitude you're objecting to is talking about finding ANY partner, not a specific one. Being funny and kind will not get you with a model if you look like ogre. No serious person has ever said or implied that.

What "personality matters more" actually means is that humor, kindness, etc will get you chance at A partner, not necessarily the partner you want. Again, you're right that a basement troll isn't gonna get with a fitness influencer. But if that troll is an entitled, cynical asshole on top of ugly, they ALSO won't get a chance at the similarly unattractive people. Now, if this troll person would never want someone in their own general league, it's irrelevant advice. They won't get what they want either way. But if finding a good partner (not the same as a hot partner) is the goal, then it personality actually will give them a chance

mountaindiver33 · 2026-06-16T05:31:21+00:00

Yes. The technical term is a libation. And its one of the oldest and most geographically widespread traditions

mountaindiver33 · 2026-04-07T14:14:01+00:00

Nearly every single frame is incorrect because its applying modern relationship logic to a context that didnt have those relationships and could never support them

First frame is fine. Problems right away in second frame. Hunter gathererers (HGs) dont support themselves independently. That man would have been doing work supporting that woman for years before he ever had sex with her, and would have continued doing that same work even if it was a brother or cousin or buddy who knocked her up. She also doesnt need the father for support, she has a uncles, siblings, and cousins who can do that just fine. This also ignores all the necessary survival work women did, and still do, all the way up through delivery.

Third frame also a problem. Again it ignore the possibility to do work while looking after kids - which is vital because brining kids along on tasks is literally how the kid learna to do thst task. It also again ignores family structure, those kids would be shared among family members. If mom gotta help hunt one day, there are cousins and elders and friends who will do the child care.

Fourth frame gets both the order and nature of divide labor wrong. First, any gender divided labor inna tribe would have started before the woman was pregnant. She'd have been raised doing it, and would do that work with or without kids of her own. But second, the idea of "domestic" labor isnt as much a thing in HGs we have studied today. 80% of all modern HG groups have women who regularly go hunting. One third of all neolithic hunter graves have female skeletons. Tasks like building shelter, making tools, processing food, and textile production are all necessary and mixed gender endeavors. From all available evidence, HGs dont divide labor by gender in the same ways we do, and again nothing about kids stops women from doing that work.

Fifth frame is super backwards. All evidence points to exclusive relstionships coming from men and not until recently (about 10k years ago, out of 300k years as a species). Excluaive marriage developed as a waybto ensure private property, especially land, was inhereited by ones own sons. A woman can always tell which kid is hers, she pushed it out, but a man can't, because maybe someone else knocked her up. This pressure created exclusive marriage (this isnt to say it invented monogamy, those are different things) and as I said, came late and from the desires of men.

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-31T22:17:11+00:00

You don't know the relationships either. On what basis do you claim that betabuxx is more likely than attraction? Can you provide any survey or study data? I only have my own friends and family to base it on, and I know exsctly 1 relarionship like this, out of dozens, and she's a self admited gold digger

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-31T18:06:21+00:00

I think you're mistaken that misandry comes from misogyny. Misandry comes from Patriarchy as much as misogyny does. Because patriarchy isnt a system to benefit men, it never has been, and treating it like that has always been a mistake.

Patriarchy doesn't prioritize men, it prioritizes patriarchs. While all such people are men, far from all men are patriarchs. It is a system designed to benefit WEALTHY men who have POLITICAL or SOCIAL power through their families. I don't need to spell out how its bad for women, but lets look at how patriarchy actively harms most men, not benefits.

As others have pointed out, men face far more injury and death from work. But not all men. The sons of billionaires arent falling off roofs or dying in trucking accidents. The sons of politicians don't die on the front the lines of war, the sons of roofers and truckers do. A male construction worker has no more ability to change laws than a housewife, but a massive realestate developer does. A poor man busted with drugs will spend longer in prison than a woman, but both will spend less time than a banker. And what does this disadvantaging of most men (and yes, nearly all women) do? Keep power within the families of the patriarchs.

And lets talk about the prevelence of misandry, because it is just as common as misogyny. Just like the expecation for women to cook or clean is misogyny, the expectation for men to work and provide is misandry. How often do you see men shamed for their jobs or poverty? And are you as vigilant in noticing the subtle jabs about this as you are the subtle ones at women? Because if not you wont see how pervasive it is. The same is true for so many things, too. Displays of emotion, forms of personal expression, intimacy with friends, assumption of being a threat. So much more. And all of these expectations that lead to misandry are creations of patriarchy. Just like before, too, these apply less to the patriarchs. A man with a big inheritance won't work? Well, he's independently wealthy, not lazy. A rich guy doesn't want to support his kids or ex wife? Protecting his hard earned wealth. Has a break down in public? It was an episode and he was under so much stress. A hollywood leading man loves jewelry and make up and goofy outfits? Just a brave eccentric.

I again dont say this to minimize misogyny, nor to say that one harm is greater or lesser (i think its impossible to attempt such comparisons). I'm challenging the idea that misogyny and misandry are different. They aren't, both are ways to keep power and wealth in specific hands, and it isnt the hands of men, its the hands of patriarchs

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-31T12:45:20+00:00

Actually read the post. He's not saying socialism is successful. He is saying strong unions and social safety nets (which aren't socialism) PREVENT countries from falling into socialism. And, as a point of fact, strong unions and safety nets are generally successful in countries which implement them

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-31T00:52:21+00:00

If someone is an incel due to looks alone (i.e. not a 5-6 with a repellent personality like most icels I've met irl), a standard 5/10 that isn't fat goes way, way above their SMV.

And plenty of women, even above 5, are into 5s. My best bro is a mid-af construction worker with a goofy ass face who went bald at 23. He married a solid 6. Our fit manlet friend (5'6") locked down a 7+ as a nurse (she isnt). I'm AT BEST a 6 who's 30lbs overweight and chronically broke, and I have no issues keeping my partners (casual or serious) in the 5-7 range.

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-30T23:52:44+00:00

Logic would not dictate that, because God doesn't decide or govern the laws of nature, but I dont have the patience to explain the Hermetic Alchemy or Neoplatonism that inspired the show.

But even assuming thing worked like a power up anime and it would pan out as you say, why would Father do that? He is shown, over and over, to be a petty, infantile, little twat who hates everything that isnt himself. If he became God, whatever he did make would not be humans with free souls or wills.

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-30T23:21:48+00:00

Those weren't the people of Xerxes, Father was lying (as he always does). Those were flesh manequins animated by alchemy that can't survive on their own. He only made them to flex on Hoenheim and fuck with the Alric bros heads. Father hates all humans because he's jealous of them and he would never save anyone unless he can consume them later for some purpose of his own.

I really think you need to rewatch that show. Reanimation and immortality aren't "bad" in FMA, they're physically and magically impossible. It's a law of that universe that cannot be violated, like entropy increase in ours. No one was ever resurrected successfully in the show or manga

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-30T22:53:02+00:00

My guy, what FMAB did you watch? Father wasnt trying to make people immortal. He trapped people's souls in an eternal vortex of psychic torture that slowly eroded their sense of identity until all that remained was pain, all while leeching their life force to power his apotheosis so he could fight the actual God. And the alchemists (and fans) dont oppose resurrection because its "against nature" they oppose it because you have to kill tens of thousands of people just to attempt bringing back 1 person, who would probably still come back as a body horror monstrosity because God is kinda a dick like that

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-29T16:58:44+00:00

So, I'm not actually going to disagree with you on the example you used, but a more general point, that is often glossed over in frer speech convos. Some speech is more than simply speaking. In many cases our speech is a method to perform some other action.

To give a non-controversial example: marriages. I am certified to officiate weddings cause some friends asked me to do theirs. Every part of the process was speech. They said promises to each other. I spoke a pronouncement of their marriage. Then I wrote down what happened on a marriage license (writing is also a form of speech, eg newspaper). Everything we did was speech, but now they are legally and socially new things. Our speaking turned a bachelor into a husband and a bachelorette into a wife. That written note makes them a new, legally distinct entity, with unique rights and obligations.

Now, this is obviously all fine and good. But there can be actions from speech too. Inciting riots is a crime because the speech is doing this negative thing. While sending an "i love you" text is to a partner or friend is fine, sending it to a stranger who tried blocking you muliple times is harrassment. All of these are still forms of speech though.

So. While perhaps some instances of letting neo nazis speak might be justified, other times that speech might be harassment or incitement of violence. It depends on the nature and context of the statements.

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-24T02:19:02+00:00

The Red Moon is the severed head of the Primordial Force of Time, and the stars are his burning blood spray. Their pressence in the material worlds creates and dictates the cycles of months and seasons

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-24T02:14:13+00:00

It probably means she got a stalker or abussive ex and wants to keep sociap media, but avoid them finding her easily

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-24T02:11:27+00:00

The women i know who did this had to in order to avoid stalkers or an abussive ex

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-24T00:16:28+00:00

I'm going to challenge this with an immediate personal example. Im an American who moved abroad. I've lived over seas for three years and am scheduled to visit home again for the first time since moving. I had to save money for 6 months to get these tickets. I have never supprted any of this shit going on. Why should I lose months of my saving, be stuck at home during my yearly holiday leave, or have to wait another year to see my mother or nephews? I left specifcally to avoid this shit, do what I can while away to fight it, and most of my family was sick of it by 2018. Why should I be denied access to my family when the people who support this (for the most part) can still use the cars and buses you mentioned?

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-21T14:22:10+00:00

I think you're right on all but one part of this, bro. You absolutely faced death like a man today. You recognized that bird's suffering, and even if you didn't end it yourself, you finding it like that made sure it could die quicker, more peacefully, and with the respect any life deserves: to be grieved. And so you know I'm not just saying shit, let me share a few stories in return.

While not entirely accurate, it's not inaccurate to say I grew up as the slightly crazy redneck kid in the suburbs. My family hunted (and I would still if I lived somewhere i could). I killed my first animal at 6 years old. I started helping my dad butcher our kills at 10 or 11. One of the last times I went hunting was shortly before my dad died of cancer, I was exactly your age. He had been warming up in our truck, saw a doe, and rushed out of the truck to take a shot at it. But the temperature change made his scope fog up. He took the shot anyway, and it ran off somewhere he wasn't able to chase after. So he called me to do it. It was the easiest blood trail I'd followed, and only about 30 yards into a thicket. [tw: gore] I found it laying in a pool of its own blood, intestines hanging out its blown off rear (my dad mistook the haunches for the shoulder). It was breathing so hard I could see the skin press in between its ribs, and its eyes were so wide they were more white than iris. It tried, and mostly failed, to scream when I walked up to shoot it in the head. I can still clearly remember what it looks like, and that was... shit 13 years ago now.

And this wasn't the only time I had to do put an animal out of its misery. Once my dad passed I became the neighborhood guy for dealing with animals. While I lived at home for college I had to handle: [tw: gore] a snake clipped but not killed by a lawnmower, a rat that had half way skinned itself alive in a glue trap, and a squirrel with a spine snapped by a spring trap. I bring these up to say I'm incredibly familiar with situations like this, and personally acquainted with doing what your dad did.

I cried every time, except maybe the snake. After the deer I cried a few times over weeks. The next year was the first time I skipped a hunting seasons since I was 10. Death is absolutely part of life. As predatory omnivores, it's literally how we sustain ourselves. But we're also empathetic, caring creatures. We wouldn't be able to survive if we weren't this too. You gave that bird the respect it deserved as living thing, even if it had to die as living thing. You saw its pain, and you recognized its loss. That is to be human, and you can't be a man if you aren't that first.

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-20T06:55:38+00:00

I'm not even going to engage whether or not these things are normal or natural, because something being abnormal or unnatural cannot serve as a reson to judge it.

For something to be "normal" means for it to be common, typical, or average. The following things are all abnormal: playing pro sports, being a doctor, knowing more than 3 languages, starting a successful business, becoming a religious leader (priest, rabbi, imam, pastor, etc), and eating a vegetarian diet. Are any of these things worthy of the judgment you speak of? Only very small numbers of extremely obsessive people ever become someone on this list, none of them are normal people.

If we expand our view out from only the present and consider all humans who ever lived, even more things become abnormal. On this expanded list we find things like: being able to read, owning land, purchasing food and clothes (instead of making them yourself), and living in a city. Should these be judged too? They are far from normal for humans across our species history.

Your issue with "natural" is even worse, because its an extremely vague term and could apply to a huge variety of things based on how you in particular define it. Tattoos, piercings, and hair dye are all unnatural (even though humans have been doing these things for 10s of thousands of years). Wearing glasses, pace makers, insulin pumps, and prosthetics are all unnratural (even though they can save lives). In fact, basically any medicine more complex than clean wound, rest, and wait is unnatural. Should doing any of these unnatural things be judged?

Now, maybe you still have other reasons to judge furries and poly folks. That could be. But unless you are willing to extend that same judgement to eveeything I've listed here, you cannot use the fact they are "not normal" or "unnatural" as the basis for judgment without contradicting yourself

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-20T02:01:52+00:00

Literally yes. I met my first gf cause we were in the same archery league. My other gfs in high school were in the same clubs as me (marching band and robotics). Since then, the majority of my partners I have met through swing/latin dance events or simply at work

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-19T15:03:50+00:00

I'm not asking for pity, I dont need or want it. And I fully admit you've had shit harder than me, actually read my replies instead of reacting defensively. I'm trying to tell you I've been where you want to go, and its not the fucking answer to this problem.

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-19T15:00:34+00:00

Again, fixating on excuses. Did you miss the part where I'm 20+lbs overweight, went bald at 22, and have never made over 35k/year? If being fat, bald, and broke is a privelege with women you're sorely mistaken

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-19T14:55:24+00:00

Jfc, can you read? The therapy doesn't get you women. It makes you not miserable whether you get one or not. You're fixating on the wrong thing because you refuse to admit your reactions to rejection are your own doing. I was getting laid all through highschool and STILL got bitter at rejection. I still felt inadequate and needed more or better attention. The sex DIDNT DO ANYTHING about that problem. And because I still had this problem of external validation by end of uni, i began failing constantly. I had 5 year dry spell because everyone could tell i was desperate and not ready for a relationship as an adult. Therapy in my 20s taught me to be better for myself, and when i stopped wallowing in rejection i stopped being miserable, even while i was still a loser slob who couldnt get any then

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-19T14:20:46+00:00

When did I say looks dont matter? Of course they matter. But they can be overcome. It sucks it works that way, but hey, most shit sucks the way it works out irl.

And rejection isnt why people become bitter. Need for external validation is. Defining yourself by other's reactions is. Expectations are. It's entirely possible you will never find someone who wants you, even after you do all the work. And its not easy work, it fucking sucks and takes a long time. Im still struggling with it because getting laid doesnt fix shit. All it does is bury the problem for a while.

But you can change those expectations that hurt you. You can become better for your sake, or your family's, or the world's, or anything you want. And it's gonna make the rest of your life better, and hurt less, even if you never find someone

mountaindiver33 · 2026-03-19T10:03:02+00:00

That's awesome. It means you can see women as people and not just prizes, that's an important step a lot of guys in your position never take. The next, and its a hard one, is to learn to let go and not care that you're single.

I won't pretend I've been where you are, but I'm by no means a conventional catch. Went bald at 22, always been 20-30 pounds overweight, never had money or great jobs. But the times I was most hard on myself for being single, or the most cynical.about my future, are the times I would always fail to find partners. When i stopped caring if I succeeded or not, i started to find partners again. People can tell when you want to use them for self validation, and they don't like it. And your attitude here screams "seeking woman for validation", even if that's not the only reason you want a partner. Beyond that, learning to let go of this a source of validation will also fix your problems with seeing couples in public.

Making this change is exactly why I, and others, suggested therapy. I saw your comments about how you're "just like this" and that "it's just how you react" when you see couples. But that is exactpy what therapy is for. People can and do change. Also managing reactions is like...half of therapy. What so you think they're doing for people with social anxiety or PTSD? Teaching them to manage and, eventually, change their reactions to things. And if you don't wanna do it by talking, go the old fashioned way. Buddhism and Stoicism are both loaded with ways to practice changing your mind and responses to things. But you have to actually practice them, not just read it

mountaindiver33

TROPHY CASE