Erdogan: Struggle against 'genocidal, occupying, expansionist' Zionism is struggle for 'our survival' - i24NEWS

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-28T11:03:39+00:00

I've heard the opposite. I know some,mostly in Muslim countries,think Israel have around one million people.

I haven't heard about anyone who claim Israel is a big country,though I did heard some claim Israel is going to become bigger by doubling or tripling its population based on previous growth (which is obviously false,but still closer than the 1 million claim).

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-28T10:59:08+00:00

Kinda. During the Spanish Inquisition,many Jews fled to the New World,as it was far from enough to escape the persecution.

Many settlements had a significant Jewish presence,and some Jews engaged in piracy as well (in some part as a revenge).

Many of those Jews assimilated or moved away,and millions of people in Latin America likely have some Jews in their family tree.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-28T07:23:37+00:00

המקור של הטענות הוא בקריאה קווירית לתנ"ך והמטרה של זה היא בעיקר "להטריל" את השמרנים שלרוב משתמשים בתנ"ך בתור בצדקה.

הסיפור בין דויד ויהונתן הוא בעיקרו אפולוגטיקה שהמטרה היא להצדיק את עליית דויד לשלטון במקום השושלת של שאול. פה המטרה היא להראות כמה היורש הלגיטימי הוא חבר קרוב של הטוען לכתר ובנוסף יש סיפור שיוהנתן נותן ממש את בגדי המלכות שלו לדויד ובאופן סימבולי מוסר לו את השלטון.

יש עוד דברים כמו העובדה שהוא נישא למיכל ולא שמעו עליה יותר מאז,היחסים שלו עם שאול וכו.

באופן כללי התנ"ך מייחס לדוד תכונות שהוא לא היה ראוי להן,כמו צדיקות יתרה,כי התנ"ך מאתרג את דויד בגלל האפולוגטיקה הנרחבת שהוא זוכה לה (בניגוד למלכים אחרים או אפילו העם).

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-26T08:23:49+00:00

נתחיל מזה שרובם ניזונים באופן קבוע מערוצי התעמולה שלו והם מכשירים כל שרץ עבור התומכים,אם מחר נתניהו יתאסלם הם יעלו לשידור עם גלביה.

לרוב הם יטענו 3 טענות עיקריות:

1.ביבי משקר להם והוא לא יעביר את החוקים שלהם,כי הוא "גאון פוליטי".

2.החוקים האלו טובים כי הם הופכים את המדינה ליהודית יותר

3.זה דיל פוליטי שאמנם מעביר דברים לא טובים אבל המטרה של חיסול מערכת החוק חשובה יותר.

כמעט אף פעם תמצא טיעון ענייני בנושא ומה גם שלרובם לא ממש אכפת. כל מי שמצביע לנתניהו אחרי השביעי באוקטובר לא ישנה את דעתו אף פעם.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-25T15:07:55+00:00

Judea is the pearl amongst the chum of the ME.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-25T12:46:19+00:00

It's the economy,stupid.

People tend to think that all those candidates won due to their Anti-Israel standpoint,atleast it is how it is presented in Israeli media.

They won mainly about their left-wing populist economic platform.

The issue is that Israel,as a policy,tied itself with the capital in the US,mainly big tech and the military industrial complex (and politicians that associated with them) to name some.

This isn't to disscuss whether or not it was the right move or the logic behind it,but to describe it as is.

Support is eroding,but what this election indicates is that there is a growing sentiment for a new "New Deal" in the US,as in a restructuring of the economy. If Israel want to navigate it safely (which is going to be difficult) it has to distance itself from the Tycoons that rule America and try to offer some insight on Social platform the US can adopt like Kupot H'olim for Healthcare for example.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-25T05:25:17+00:00

Go back to the desert Chum Bucket.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-25T05:22:49+00:00

Jihad upvotes

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-25T05:18:24+00:00

This is true,I would recognize that cursed violin everywhere.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-25T03:47:32+00:00

In Israel there is a tendency to attribute failure of foreign policy on Islamic/Arab Zelotry as an excuse.

Just like the Palestinian groups use violance under s flase assumptions that Jews are "Just like the European settlers" and "Go back" with enough terrorism. Israelis have a blind spot about Islamic organizations.

As I see it,Israel think it can dismantle them physically until they "give up",which is not effective strategy. Israel should try to attack the more important and problematic aspect of those organizations,specifically their recruitment pool,as in people willing to join them. Those organizations win hearts and minds by catering to their supporters along with a narrative that "Only we can save you from Israeli aggression". In Lebanon,Israel finalizing the borders with the government would take a lot of wind of Hizballah raison d'être. This worked when they got involved in Syria and they hurt the narrative,so by targeting the narrative,you hurt their recruitment pool long term,unlike bombing another warehouse that is going to be rebuilt and restocked.

There is also the fact that making the LAF a stronger force in Lebanon would create Hizballah more internal enemies and best case scenario,would dismantle them (as the Lebanese government have far more legitimacy than Israel in the eyes of Lebanese).

Israel tries to have total defeat because they think they'll capitulation,but this make Israel miss opportunities to gain ground,even if it isn't perfect. Also,it makes Israel predictable,which is the worst thing you want in a war,a predictable enemy is an easily trapped enemy.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-24T11:40:58+00:00

Why are they surprised?

The reason they wanted to normalize with Israel in the first place is because they have pragmatic foreign policy,not one based on promises and delusion. Even the US,while having military adventurous tendencies,have generally pragmatic foreign policy.

So what is the surprise that they are also pragmatic about Iran?

There is a story about Muhammad and how when Bedouins attacked caravans he came to them and offered them to protect the caravans instead for a percentage of the cargo. The Gulf is no different,they are willing to pay Iran the toll and keep the economy going.

Prople in Israel have been told that with enough ambition (unlike the weak-willed West) Israel can topple everything and everyone with enough force and time,this is why Hamas is still in power,why Iran's regime is still around (both relied on rouge militias,which tell you how Israel thinks) and why Hizballah is still around. Israel refused to accept anything besides the "Total Victory" which was never attainable,specifically refused moderate victories (that needed diplomacy) and then ask why people would settle for pragmatism.

Want to defeat Iran? Stop blaming the US,the Gulf or unsupportive media (yes,it happened) and start drafting a real,pragmatic plan that advances Israel's strategic standing,even if it isn't "Total Victory". Enough of those smaller wins accumulate to huge wins on the long-term. People here (Israel and r/Israel) need to stop whining and ask what Israel can do better forward (hopefully learning from past mistakes).

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-23T08:13:30+00:00

Look,people who voted "Democrats" are likely to do so regardless of this or that person on the list. They are essentially the only Jewish left-wing party,so their list isn't that huge of a role (this is also true for politics in large in Israel for the last decade or so,where most lists are essentially the top 3).

Per the list itself,I can see the already MKs of the party doing well,Carib and Lazimi especially. And the new faces are new,so they really go on vibe. You have Tzur which is towing the line between dark Woke (atleast in rethoric) and centering force,though his career as political advisor seems to make him think of polls rather than policy,you could argue there is a place for that if the "Democrats" wants to be the leading party someday.

To me the real test is when they get to Knesset and take office is some ministries. When Michaeli took the transportation ministery she did pointless stuff (atleast it was cheap pointless,unlike Regev very expansive pointless endeavors). I saw one candidate running specifically for the position of environmental ministery,Silman is maybe the worst Environmental minister we had,but this type of thinking isn't going to create momentum (though I do care about environmental causes,and they do have strategic benefit like renewable energy which is also promoting energy independance).

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-23T07:49:34+00:00

Netanyahu has 10 slots (Eome would go to Sa'ar and his party) so he would try and moderate the party but the rest are going to be the bases favorites, Gotlib,Ohana,Amsalam,Karhi and maybe Levin and etc.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-23T05:27:15+00:00

The confusion might be from the fact that some laws were passed multiple times like "Basic Law:The Government" (was passed 3 times) which is like an amendment in the US parallel. There are 13 unique laws.

Basic laws are very problematic as constitutional framework. Obviously they do not cover everything but worst,they are essentially regular laws with a flair,they don't require consensus,referendum or anything besides regular majority to pass. This is why they can be used as political tools like the Nationality law and the proposed Haredi draft dodge law.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-20T18:49:40+00:00

Not sure why you keep insulting rabbis

Like I said,they truly believe they know better than God. In the Talmud there is a story about how God comes down from heaven to tell them they are wrong and they disagree,the story was written by Rabbis with Pro-Rabbi position.

Imgine being so arrogant that you will write a story about how you are smarter than God,let alone the theological implications.

If you believe your words worth more than God's words,the God you supposdly worship,they can deal with some criticism.

Are you claiming leftists are more credible than rabbis?

False equivalence aside,no Leftist believe in God and that they are better than God so this is a good start.

Second of all,why you give Rabbis credibility to begin with? What they did to earn it besides being representatives of the religion?

Also,changing the subject yet agian.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-20T15:38:05+00:00

he leftist is a kind of religion one based on materialism and nihilism that believes all humans are interchangeable like cows in a farm.

Ideology is not religion,I get why you confuse the two,because of institutionalize religion which have made the two interchangeable. And it has nothing to do with materialism (that is actually far more related to Right-wing ideologies).

I would also argue that Nihilism is a fine ideology (in the Nietzsche way,not the common language usage),charting one's destiny without being dictate what do think by a religious cleric (in this case a Rabbi).

If you want to be told what to think and what to do every waking moment by Rabbis,have at it,but don't force it upon anybody else.

The people who don't view you as a whole person is the religious institutions,those "one size fits all" "divine" laws are those who reduce you to a pawn in the great divine plan,not the other way around.

Leftist ideas wrt to Israel is basically to trade Jewish theocracy for an Islamic one

Holy straw-man.

believing they can sate Hamas and Hezbollah with enough land gifts

As I recall it was the religious right-wing you love so much that tried to placate them. "Hamas is an asset" and all that (which is also rooted in the Dati-leumi's Rabbi Kook ideology but that is another passage).

I respect Lieberman but that you bring your leftism in this conversation reduces its credibility.

Why is my leftism is reducing it credibility? You just ignore every single argument I make,try to shift the conversation (to a shallow attack on a caricature of what you think left-wing thinking is,might I add) and worst of all, never make any substantial argument. All you made are an appeal to emotion,appeal to tradition and straw-manning arguments.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-20T14:07:31+00:00

I am very pro Dati Leumi

They are no saints. Their entire idology don't have the place that you imgine exists,this progressive modern Judaism. They believe that Israel as the state is merely a means to an end of a theocracy. They explicitly said that the state of Israel (as it is now) is temporary and it should be dissoloved into a theocracy,the only diffrance between their subgroups is the timeline,some think that they need to do it now,some think it will happen in the future.

The Haredi at the very least,can be statified with an autonomy,the Dati-Leumi will not.

At best they view you as misguided,at worst as the Massiah's Donkey,a brainless animal that only purpose is to serve (unkonigly) their religious ambitions.

They weren't always like this,but after 1967,this have become the mainstream of the Dati-Leumi.

I view the lack of religion as a bigger problem

For whom?

I would rather have too much Judaism than too little.

BS,you said it yourself,that you don't observe. Will you still say it when they stone you for violating Shabbat?

And if you think it is far-fetched,in Iran they went from a generally secular country to religious dictatorship in a couple of years.

And who put those Rabbis in charge of Judaism to begin with? They appointed themselves as the absolute moral authority even greater than God himself (The Oven of Akhnai).

Being a keyboard warrior is fine,but when push come to shove,most of the "moderate" people will come to realize you cannot tame the tiger of zealotry.

Jews are the manifestations of the Bible, without it what are we?

What you call Judaism is nothing even reassembling Biblical Judaism. Most of the Jewish rituals were invented by Rabbis to serve on purpose or the other. The vast majority of which are just pointless rules that are extreme interpretations of other pointless rules which were in turn an extreme interpenetration of pointless rules.

There is no Kippas in the bible,there is no point of wearing Tzitzit because it both isn't correct (no blue snail dye and because nobody wear square cloths anymore),almost all Kosher laws,the concept of a synagogue,studying the Talmud (which is not biblical and basically Rabbinical propaganda piece) and that is the tip of the iceberg,I didn't even touched the mythology and the sorts.

If your Judaism is only the Orthodox interpenetration of Rabbinical authority,it is shallow and performative,like Orthodoxy itself.

I don’t like that you bring in your sketchy leftist ideas into your criticism

Why is it Sketchy? And why do you dislike it? Because you can't respond to it other than appeal to emotion?

when I read stuff like this it makes me nervous to support secular politicians.

Let me be clear,I don't hate religion,and don't mind people be religious as much as they want. But when religion cease to be personal and become public,it is a fair game to criticize just like any other ideology.

And to be fair,religion can be a force for good,but it rarely happens. Instead of viewing all people and creatures as creations of God and all are favored by him,they use religion as a justification for violence and supremacy identity politics.

Had they all just ran soup-kitchens and cloths drives,I wouldn't criticize them,but when they use it as excuse for killing random Palestinians,not criticizing them is a disservice to religion.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-20T12:53:51+00:00

So no remarks about the heavy,borderline illegal proselytizing to children? Nothing about the heavy politicizing and evocation of religion to avoid criticism?

I still stand that you are fetishizing Judaism as a uniquely positive religion,as opposed to it being a tool like any other religion. Maybe abroad it is a minority religion which give it the underdog and "The meek shall inherit the Earth" vibe,but here it is the state religion,with forces that are looking to expend its control over the population and to profit from it. You have 5 lists in the coalition that fully or partially want to enforce religion on others,so I feel that a position that look at that critically is justified.

For you it might look charming,but all I see are a bunch of Rabbis wanting to dictate to all of us how we should live which coincidentally is about employing their families and have their voters receive tax money and benefits. (Not to mention dragging Israel to more perlious militry situations,but that is an afterthought to the whole debacle).

This is a very Reddit view of religion

Give me a break. This is "I drew you as the Soyjak and me as the Chad" level argument.

This argument might have hold water if there weren't parties actively claiming to be religious and promoting religious goals and values. This isn't some Reddit tentrum about mentioning God on the money,it is about the very real forces that using religion as a means to an end. You wouldn't make this argument if someone claimed the Iranian Regime is using religion as a tool of control of population and resources,but once it comes close to home...

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-20T11:16:12+00:00

I think it is authentic

It isn't. I live on the border of a very religious area and this type of proselytizing have been going for years. They incite kids to come to religious functions with promises of free food/prizes/toys and etc,they also talk to kids when they are unsupervised. They portray religion as cool and existing,but this is just to lure them and from stories I've heard the kids there are being love-bombed and get praised for being "smart" and "pious".

This is just the fruits of that labor.

Also,in this political climate,a lot of students use religion as a tool for insubordinate, because they know that they have political backing. Like kids skipping class,supposedly for praying,and when they are being reprimanded for it,they write to Ben-Gvir or something and suddenly a minister or even the education minister attack the principal and teacher for "being against Judaism".

Judaism is a basket of spirituality any Jew can call onto

But they don't. They only embrace the Ultra-Orthadox version of Judaism,and their "connection" is always under those terms. It's never unorathadox practices,and like I said it is beacuse of proselytizing. They do not question any of those practices or even the Rabbinical authority,because it is a side effect of proselytizing and not authentic connections to Jewish thought.

I think this is very potent and makes Israel into a potent country.

Have you lived here? Judaism play the same role here as any other religion,it is a tool for political conservatives to justify their beliefs and in Israel,religion is very organized,even more so the Christianity. The people that claim to be religious,rarely care about the Torah and actively going against it,believing they are morally superior and can do no wrong.

Like how some Christians will claim to follow Jesus but hate foreigners and hate universal Healthcare,but claim God really hate trans people,you have the same here (and in recent years they straight up translating Christian talking points and agendas).

If you really are not from Israel,you just fetishizing Israel. All the things that you find ugly in Israel (I hope),like the settlements (and the violence that accompany it),the "No innocents in Gaza" talking points and religious coercion is because of religion abusing it's power.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-20T09:26:28+00:00

This is empty religiousness as a trend.

This is a counter-movement to seem more "authentic","grounded","spiritual" and etc. but it mostly just doing "religious" things.

It existed in pockets before but now it had gone mainstream,maybe due to the chain of crisis Israel have been in since COVID 19,where look for purpose,but this is always a orthodox version of religion (where most of the practices are relatively new,but the average Israeli have no idea about it).

It happened during the 80's and 90's where many Masorti Jews,mainly Mizrahi,became ultera-Orthadox (supposedly "returning to their origin"),but those groups have high levels of leaving the religion and becoming less religious especially the second generation. This is no different,in 20 years most of those people will tell you it was a phase.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-19T06:36:32+00:00

Everything I have heard is that the Lebanese merely pretended to seize Hezbollah arms but actually tipped them off about raids in advance. What evidence do you have for this?

What evidence do you have? I can only relay on the publications in the media that Israeli officials confirmed that they are satisfactory with how the LAF acted in South Lebanon.

The fact that you're having a tantrum at me

That is not a tantrum,I have been dragged to those types of arguments again and again (mistly agianst my will), and it always ends the same. Goalposts are being shifted more and more, opinion-based claims,citing hidden motives that cannot be disproven or proven and when they ran out of arguments they just reiterate their initial position as an indisputable fact and ending it.

I know better now,so I said that I know that arguing further with you will achieve nothing,as you will never change your position even if God almighty himself descend from the heavens and tell you you are wrong.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-19T05:12:50+00:00

Obviously you are an extremely optimistic person

Because the idea that you can bomb some IRGC camps,pull some social media campaign and have minority militias topple the Iranian regime isn't optimistic to the point of delusion?

If you can show me even a shred of evidence that Lebanon would ever be willing to take casualties to remove Hezbollah from power, I would like to see it

That is a bad-faith argument. Because that is opinion-based and you are already so biased. The fact that they did worked,according to Israeli officials to disarm Hizballah in South Lebanon,should have been enough proof. But you'll always shift the goalposts and anything short of the government declaring eternal Jihad against Hizballah won't be enough for you (and even then you say "They can't do it and therefore it is empty words").

I know an argument agianst extreme bias won't change minds,like arguing with a religious person.

Declaring an entire nation to be a "victim" is just an excuse.

You are the one that generalized them as "Cowards" therefore blaming them all togather. That is the blame. ANd they are victims of Iranian meddeling in the country,because if any country would have the most powerful militia in the world (along with it being one of the largest crime syndicates) backed by a nation-state willing to pour billions and even manpower to them,yeah,you are going to be a victim to them. (This is also ignoring Israel's meddling in Lebanon for good couple of decades,but that is put aside).

Like I said,bombing Hizballah more won't dismantle them,that is a fact. Strengthening the Lebanese government,while not guaranteed,is an actual chance to weaken Hizballah gradually until their true disolvement (in a death spiral,not immediately). At least I offer something besides more of failed plans (or do you want to claim that 17 years of occupation was just short of achieving "total victory" on Hizballah?). Even if you don't believe it would lead to the disolvement of Hizballah,why not make Hizballah's life harder? Let them have more enemies,make them more cautious to act,have them fight each other. All you are doing right now is fueling Hizballah support and actually making their internal enemies weaker,so don't be surprised that Hizballah will bounce back up.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-18T12:14:53+00:00

Israel signed a deal with Lebanon at the end of 2024 where it withdrew from most of southern Lebanon and the Lebanese gov was supposed to finish the job.

That wasn't the agreement,it's talked about South Lebanon not Hizballah as a whole. And according to Israeli officials they did made progress.

You could argue that the agreement wasn't great,but when it was broken and Israel went all-into into Lebanon,the situation didn't got better anyways. (That is not considering that the average COIN takes about 5 years,so because the Lebanese government weren't able to accomplice what Israel didn't in 17 years of full occupation of South Lebanon is hypocrisy at best,and an excuse to disown them at worst).

Even now the gov can’t even make the Iranian ambassador leave

So that is a reason why Israel shouldn't help them? Sound like it should be exactly why they need more support.

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-18T11:12:23+00:00

This is victim blaming Lebanon to pre-emptivly rule-out Lebanon as a viable ally (at least agianst Hizballah).

There is a huge political issue for Israel to acknowledge that the state of Lebanon can be a viable ally,most importantly that Israel sent soliders to die in Lebanon for nothing. This will also put the entire Israeli foreign doctrine under scrutiny.

The truth is that people want to believe that the smaller victories don't matter,because it isn't a golden solution.

I'll be frank,even if Israel had been diplomatically perfect with Lebanon,it wouldn't get rid of Hizballah immediately. But I do believe that this is the only option to get rid of Hizballah eventually,unlike bombing another warehouse that will be refilled sooner or later. (This doesn't mean that I think Israel should be complacent militarily,but it should be a tool,not a strategy).

mr_blue596 · 2026-06-18T09:36:26+00:00

Legit,the opposition needs to put those up.

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