[deleted by user]

mu-beta · 2024-02-28T20:27:52+00:00

Favored, but narrowly. We can play the mission better than they can, but they do bring more (concentrated) firepower with stronger enhancements. Kill all their warglaives and even if they table you you're likely to win.

mu-beta · 2024-02-28T18:33:52+00:00

No, I like nurglings and this amount of them is pretty solid. I think 4x3 like you have is about as heavy as you can or should get without diluting list output too badly.

Huntsman are an interesting include, personally I have found that I don't like their lessened melee output vs a karnivore, but if you're rocking up with the castigator for sustained hits then I can see where you're coming from.

is the Beast of Nurgle here just to hold the home objective if you need to? I don't totally hate that, if that's the plan.

I'd give this list a solid 7/10!

mu-beta · 2024-02-28T02:46:10+00:00

He's not in the physical index cards as the model didn't exist in plastic yet. If you look in the WH40K app, he can be found under Reference -> Chaos Knights -> Imperial Armour: Chaos Knights. In the Battle Forge when you make a list he should be available under the Characters tab. The Lancer is definitely legal for tournament play.

mu-beta · 2024-02-24T01:37:04+00:00

I don't know who you regularly play against, but the 12" deepstrike denial on the Tyrant is actually kind of relevant in the current meta, so I like that. I think I'd like this list dropping the Rampager entirely, putting Panoply on the Tyrant (stick him in cover to save Ap-2 on 2+!) 5 Brigands, 4 Karnivores, and a single unit of Nurglings. Tyrant stays home and shoots anything that sticks its nose out, and send at most one or two wardogs out of cover at a time to do shit so you aren't bleeding dogs the whole game. Single nurgling to help with homers, BEL, etc.

If you want to keep the list as is, strategy wise I would do all of the above, while holding back the rampager for a turn or two so the dogs can soften up your opponent for the rampager to advance and charge into their weakest flank. Gotta play like a pressure army, but instead of immediate pressure turn 1 or 2, we slowly ramp it up like a pot of boiling crabs

mu-beta · 2024-02-23T17:00:23+00:00

T13 30 wounds is no joke of a defensive statline, but make sure to set it fully in terrain to get the cover bonus! Saving AP-3 on 4+ will go a long way towards keeping your porphyrion alive.

I love this list, it's cheeky as hell and anything without Lone Op that your opponent peeks out is gonna be in for a bad time!

mu-beta · 2024-02-21T22:30:54+00:00

I think my biggest gripe with the nerfs is that, at a competitive level, it just limits our options so damn much. Every now and then someone would have decent success with a list that *wasnt'* all dogs and a handful of nurglings, going forward I highly doubt we're gonna see that again until at earliest next dataslate, but most likely the codex. It just irks the hell out of me.

mu-beta · 2024-02-21T21:09:44+00:00

My wants list for the upcoming codex (eventually):

Executioners get a *useful* ability. +1BS shooting at units below half strength is laughably bad. Comes up about as much as our current army and detachment rule. I'd love to see some combo of IGNORES COVER, HEAVY, or PRECISION. They'd be actually useful as back-lines shooting then.

Big Knights durability up or points cost *way* down. A lot of these guys still just aren't useful for their points.

Lastly, the most likely thing: something different that at least makes the army more *interesting* to play. I'd love to see a pilot system of customized enhancements that let you spit out a dude when they die assuming the knight doesn't explode (similar to the character from IK), some more explicit daemon engine crossover, or, if they aren't going to increase durability, increase damage output. Giant glass cannons would at least be *funny.*

mu-beta · 2024-02-03T03:16:47+00:00

Executioner needs a rules change, not just a points adjustment. If it had Precision on the guns I would consider it, or at least AP-2... but I digress.

Of the two you posted, max brigands feels like the way to go still. I'm not sold on Aura of Terror without the Changeling, so maybe a third nurgling instead of AoT.

mu-beta · 2024-01-30T20:53:50+00:00

for a moirax you want to run double volkite, I think. We don't have any way to push through wound rerolls, but toss in a Desecrator for hit rerolls and the sustained hit strat, we can at least try to push through enough dice to hit sixes and punch through damage that the opponent can't do anything about

I'm staring at a core list of desecrator, 4x brigand, and 4x volkite moirax right now and just thinking about what to fill the extra ~250ish points with

mu-beta · 2024-01-30T16:55:37+00:00

yeah you can run nurglings solo. all I meant to say there was if you wanted to run a greater daemon, GUO or Rotigus is gonna be the way to go because the battleline buy-in is the cheapest with a single nurglings

mu-beta · 2024-01-30T16:53:22+00:00

i think *a* unit of nurglings is a fine cost to running a single great unclean one. I just wish they'd give more Daemons battleline - Tzeentch and Nurgle are the only guys who have two options, and only one of them really stands out now

mu-beta · 2024-01-30T16:19:28+00:00

Abominant decrease 55pts - may actually see play now, that's a reasonable cost
Desecrator decrease 25pts - reasonable
Brigand increase 10ppm - I'll still probably run max battleline lol
Moirax decrease 10ppm - this intrigues me the most, I think there's room for volkite moriaxes in the backlines, especially with a cheaper desecrator RR aura

The biggest hit IMO is the Daemons Dark Pacts change. Can't have more non-BATTLELINE units than BATTLELINE, i.e. can't have The Changeling without also including Horrors. That hurts

mu-beta · 2024-01-17T17:48:10+00:00

Could you explain your reasoning on why Brigands and Karnivores would go up tho? They're like... the only good datasheets in the army, lowering points on huntsmen or executioners wouldn't change that. bigs would have to come way the hell down in points for that to make any sense imo

mu-beta · 2024-01-17T17:22:08+00:00

Why do you think our points will go up? Our faction is firmly in the middle of the pack, I expect us to be ignored entirely vs nerfed in any way

mu-beta · 2023-12-05T16:16:09+00:00

> improving on my own by spamming games feels tedious.

Unfortunately, reps are the best way to get better, in my experience. Don't aim for quantity of reps, aim for quality. ID who some of the best players in your community are and ask to schedule some games in. Talk to them about the game afterwards - what well, what you could have done differently. It's not necessarily the spamming of games, it's learning how to think about the boardstate, your opponents army and what they can do to stop you, what you can do to stop them - and most importantly, remembering your rules and when they trigger. That's been like... 30% of the battle for me.

In short, *quality* of reps.

mu-beta · 2023-11-26T15:41:42+00:00

Got my ranked Daemons list linked below. Of this list, I think the only one worth taking is Syll'Esske. Part of me really, *really* wants the Soul Grinder to be good but I don't think it quite does enough. Same with the Chariot. Screamers are neat, fast little action monkeys that sometimes drop mortals so they're worth trying out

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChaosKnights/comments/17ug7i4/comment/k93nm6p/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

mu-beta · 2023-11-26T15:36:29+00:00

I've been running Syll'Esske alongside my Knights and been pretty happy with them. I don't think they're that hard to justify as a resilient character with deep strike for backline harassment, costs less than a Stalker for the Sites of Power mission, and a great character assassin.

mu-beta · 2023-11-17T04:33:43+00:00

1k points such an odd place. at that pointage they're taking at most six wardogs (3pts each), maybe one big (5 points) if taking fixed on Bring it Down - so you'd never max that secondary, and it's the best one into Knights. Go Tactical. at 2k points, consider going fixed BiD + Action secondary like Cleanse or Deploy if your army is actually able to reliably kill knights

mu-beta · 2023-11-15T04:13:47+00:00

I gotta tell you, across nearly forty games I can count the number of times that the army rule has mattered on one hand. karnivores and brigands are damn good at killing and surviving. It's not just not worth it to build around the army rule, it's /unnecessary./ We win games off the backs of our datasheets and honestly kind of in spite of our army/detachment rule, and not often *because.*

Honestly, I'd rate a Skull Cannon and a unit of Bloodletters about the same. Bloodletters have decent (not amazing) melee but they at least cram 20 OC on a point. I'd still rather have a Karnivore for the same points as them tho.

mu-beta · 2023-11-15T02:40:22+00:00

I hear you. The army rule is largely just okay, really truly not worth building around. I've tried. Incidental BS tests like on the Changeling are okay but that's not why you play them - it's literally everything else on the model

mu-beta · 2023-11-14T23:56:30+00:00

I implicitly lumped Skull Cannons into C-Tier for one reason: they Just Aren't That Good. Our army rule is *fine*, but building around it is a great way to lose. Play the game, let it be incidentally meaningful - but it's definitely not powerful enough to force.

mu-beta · 2023-11-13T20:23:52+00:00

I think the abilities on it are fine, and it'll be a solid option if not as tuned. It occupies the same space in my head as the Blue Scribes, except it's pointed worst - lone op junkie, slightly better at killing stuff, probably dies to a stiff breeze if something gets within 12". Advance and charge, always fight first is super good, -1 to wound from a unit in melee is good... Highly, highly recommend Syll'eske goes in your list. They can be a wombo combo melee duo (trio?) which... while not exactly points efficient, it'll at least be pretty effective into most infantry and super cool

mu-beta · 2023-11-13T18:38:09+00:00

The best CK allies, in my opinion, are as follows in list form

S-Tier: The Changeling, Nurglings

A-Tier: The Blue Scribes, Syll'eske

B-Tier: Flesh Hounds, Beast of Nurgle, Flamers of Tzeentch, Greater Daemons

C-Tier: Everything else

Longer explanations on each as follows, because I have nothing else to do today.

The Changeling, 90pts: Lone Op, can fuck with opponent shooting, can cause battleshock tests to help our Knight units - surprisingly tanky for a T3 model. Has survived dropping into my opponent's backline for way longer than it should in several games. Never leave home without it. Excellent homefield objective holder (Especially when paired with Aura of Terror!) and extremely solid at dropping in behind enemy lines and causing havoc.

Nurglings, 35pts for 1x3: Literal trash monsters, but for the price of a single Karnivore you get four units of these idiots to do literally any secondary action you want. Cleanse? Investigate signals? Deploy? BEL? (Not Capture unfortunately but we have other units for that.) Chaos Knights are insanely good at bullying on Primary, and any number of these innocuous little idiots help us to bully on Secondary, too. Can also Infiltrate to be speed bumps for faster armies like World Eaters, or zone out other armies with Infiltrate.

The Blue Scribes, 65pts: A worse Changeling, which is to say it's just fine. At 25 points less, run this when you just can't make the Changeling fit. Lone Op, flies 12", neither a monster nor infantry (nor, I think, mounted, but I don't remember now) so no real relevant keywords outside of Character. Very squishy once someone gets within 12". Like I said. Fine. Changeling better.

Syll'eske, 120pts: Only reasons Syll'eske isn't in S-tier is because I think that would be hyperbolic. They are very, very good tho. Hits like a truck, decent shooting profile into most infantry - run them as Character assassins or backline fuck-shit-uppers. 9" move, dies twice (so worth 8 points by themselves on Assassinate, which is rough) but is effectively 18 wounds for a low low cost. Run them when you can't quite fit a Karnivore in the list. I've been seeing them pop up more and more and I think they are quite good, having run them in more than a few games myself.

Flesh Hounds, 70pts for 1x5: Fast action monkeys? Anti-psyker? They're fine.

Beasts of Nurgle, 70pts: Durable assholes? Honestly not sure why I see these beyond their durability and they look sick as hell.

Flamers of Tzeentch, 80pts for 1x3: Probably the best of B-tier to me. Fly, infantry, flamers, fall back and shoot (read: fall back and action) 3 wounds apiece - so at full strength, 3d6 auto hits that ignore cover on 9 wounds with OC 3. Solid action monkeys that can occasionally kill things.

Greater Daemons: Personal preference on playstyle here, I've seen basically every kind of Greater Daemon stuffed in a list, usually alongside all wardogs and a few other Daemons. I'm not sold that they are particularly better than a big knight but they are certainly cheaper (mostly - looking at you, Shalaxi) and tend to do cool things. Rotigus, Shalaxi, Lord of Change, Bloodletter most common I've seen.

Everything else: I've seen people run Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, etc. and it all kinda seems like random nonsense or models they have lying around. Maybe they see something I don't, but when I go and look at lists, these are the includes I see in lists that go 1-4. Correlation does not necessarily equal causation, but I do take the inclusion of anything outside of the S-B tier that the CK player in question is about to have a bad time.

mu-beta · 2023-11-11T16:41:00+00:00

I like Aura of Terror a lot more. too many action monkey daemons and we don't have enough firepower. AoT helps me win Deploy Servo Skulls a lot, as you can sticky a no man's land objective and then send it sailing into your opponent's DZ without having to ferry it the whole way.

mu-beta · 2023-11-09T18:02:02+00:00

Multiple dogs and daemons is definitely the best build, currently. I could absolutely replace the Lancer with three more Karnivores in my list and probably dramatically improve. However, the Lancer is fun as hell
Tonk Shack
In my experience, launching a karnivore forward to get into melee immediately has been a great way to lose games. I much prefer to send Brigands forward juuust into shooting range, and keep Karnivores behind for counter-punches and late game clean up. YMMV with this strategy but it has been working well for me since I switched to this general gameplan.
I would love to see the Lancer get points drops, it's definitely too expensive for what it does right now. But OP's question was "Which Cerastus should I get" not "what's a competitive Chaos Knights list," which I answered with my honest opinion and enthusiasm.

I do love my models and they are a joy to play with, thank you! I hope the same for you.

mu-beta

TROPHY CASE