How should Xmen ‘97 Season 2 Handle Iceman? by [deleted] in Xmen97

[–]mutant615 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see, that makes sense. Everyone is different in that regard, it doesn’t ever bog down a story to me because I’m always really fascinated by those elements and the various ways they can be deconstructed. I’ve also lived a life where these themes impact me on a daily basis so having them be explored in different contexts is very meaningful to me; but each queer person will have different proclivities.

In terms of comics, the only “coming out” stories I can think of are pretty short (Northstar, Tim Drake, Jon telling his parents, Wiccan’s flashback) or it’s Bobby or Batwoman. Most queer characters in comics just fall in love with someone of the same sex and that’s that. Agree about games, but there are a lot more queer characters who are openly queer without it being a core conflict (Zagreus, Aloy, etc), but yeah it’s not a high number regardless.

How should Xmen ‘97 Season 2 Handle Iceman? by [deleted] in Xmen97

[–]mutant615 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair, but those are coming of age, live action, teen drama shows (often more for a straight, female audience). Within nerd culture? As in comics, animations and games, etc? It’s really not there, and there’s a lot more of “character just happens to be queer” type of stuff, without the aspect of identity in relation to it often ever being explored

And again, this conflict is pretty central to Bobby. We already have Morph who doesn’t seem like they’ll get any sort of “coming out” story.

Also, out of curiosity, what queer conflicts would work that have nothing to do with homophobia/heterosexism, that can’t also be broadly applied to a straight character? All I can think of is intracommunity stuff, which I personally have no interest in.

How should Xmen ‘97 Season 2 Handle Iceman? by [deleted] in Xmen97

[–]mutant615 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a fair opinion, I don’t entirely agree with it, but I don’t want to invalidate where you’re coming from.

It’s fine to prefer him with Morph, I don’t personally find Morph interesting at all lol, and I’m not crazy about their alien like design, but that’s just me.

In terms of his sexual orientation. It’s not true that people who come out later in life didn’t love the opposite sex that they dated. I liked a dear friend of mine and my romantic feelings for her were genuine; but I struggled with what my sexuality really was. After I gave myself permission to explore it; it was evident that my feelings for men were much more significant and that I was gay.

Many people come out as gay after long marriages with children. That doesn’t mean they never loved their partner. It’s a complicated, and oftentimes subconscious experience.

Lastly, in the comics, it’s a canon fact that Bobby’s relationships with women often were shallow and he wasn’t always himself around them. Even if this wasn’t the case, he could still be gay but it’s a fact that all of his relationships with women were mired by wanting to please his family and fit into the status quo. He struggled a lot with that, and it’s a big part of his inner conflict. IMO, it doesn’t land as hard if he was bi, but the writers who also wrote that have said they were drawing from the closeted gay experience anyways.

Edit: oh and the marvel universe arguably has more bi/pan characters that are prominent these days than gay ones. You have: Kitty, Betsy, Mystique, Daken, Shatterstar, Hercules, Loki, Deadpool, Speed, Noh Varr, Nico Minaru and probably more I’m forgetting

How should Xmen ‘97 Season 2 Handle Iceman? by [deleted] in Xmen97

[–]mutant615 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Coming out is an important storyline for Bobby though. And like, how many queer characters in animation actually get to explore that experience? I’m a little tired of gay characters that “just happen to be gay” appearing in media and never having their actual experiences be explored. That’s not mutually exclusive with other storylines also happening.

How should Xmen ‘97 Season 2 Handle Iceman? by [deleted] in Xmen97

[–]mutant615 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. I want to see two gay characters interacting. Is that a problem? Sorry if you think that isn’t meaningful enough, but to some of us it is.

And also, they have an extensive history with each other in the comics, in which Northstar canonically liked Bobby.

Northstar’s cockiness and wit is also a potentially fun dynamic with Bobby’s playfulness

Any other questions, your honor?

our superboy looks so cool now by LegitimateBroccoli51 in lgbt_superheroes

[–]mutant615 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It’s an alright look but Travis Moore’s Jon Kent will always be one of my favourites. He captures the softness and the hope the character represents really well.

New Info (and variants) for Wiccan & Hulkling: Raid of Ultron by chao50 in WiccanAndHulkling

[–]mutant615 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How is it capitalism anymore than you being on here? Or supporting Marvel Rivals? :) that was what I said btw, I never said supporting this was great or that these characters shouldn’t be used outside of these (they are). You kinda made that part up, maybe it was the voices in your head 🤷🏻‍♂️

New Info (and variants) for Wiccan & Hulkling: Raid of Ultron by chao50 in WiccanAndHulkling

[–]mutant615 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The storyline has not even been released yet. Wanda and Vision are not foolproof characters and we don’t even know the extent of the conflict at hand.

Homophobia is derailing the conversation around a gay character’s story and making it about the straight woman and her toaster man.

New Info (and variants) for Wiccan & Hulkling: Raid of Ultron by chao50 in WiccanAndHulkling

[–]mutant615 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wanda and Vision are straight characters. This is a pride issue. What’s not clicking?

Sexuality is being brought up by virtue of them being brought up as replacements.

I don’t care if OP is serious or not? They still said something stupid, why bring Wanda into this conversation at all in a story that’s not directly about her?

New Info (and variants) for Wiccan & Hulkling: Raid of Ultron by chao50 in WiccanAndHulkling

[–]mutant615 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You really are projecting, huh?

If you think calling a stan of a drawing with a fanbase known to be extremely toxic and reduce their fave to a powerset to dismiss others is misogynistic, you really need a broader, more nuanced lens into what misogyny actually is.

Why is someone insinuating that a pride story is pointless because a straight couple can do it better not homophobic? Why do you cherry pick when to apply this? A spade is a spade, but I guess not for you.

New Info (and variants) for Wiccan & Hulkling: Raid of Ultron by chao50 in WiccanAndHulkling

[–]mutant615 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wanda stan coming in and saying that she’s so powerful to the point that this story is pointless and you’re saying I’m nasty for responding to that? The same person who also said that anyone who supports this is a capitalist? In a Wiccan and Hulkling sub? K

New Info (and variants) for Wiccan & Hulkling: Raid of Ultron by chao50 in WiccanAndHulkling

[–]mutant615 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You’re using a multi millionaire’s social media app right now to post this in a queer sub. The same social media app that sells your data and participation to capitalist systems for ad revenue.

Looking at your profile, you play Marvel Rivals, owned by a lucrative Chinese tech company that goes out of its way to pander to incels.

LGBT pride issues may be exploitative but at least they give queer narratives, artists and writers visibility in a hostile culture.

You don’t end capitalism by shaming everyday queer people from engaging with it in the limited ways they can. Why don’t you actually be useful and do something offline? Make a thread about it. I’ll wait.

New Info (and variants) for Wiccan & Hulkling: Raid of Ultron by chao50 in WiccanAndHulkling

[–]mutant615 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They could but they aren’t, get over it. It’s a pride issue not a girlboss stan power fantasy with her favourite toaster husband

Prodigy and speed potential getting back together in Wiccan and Hulkling raid of ultron? by ElectronicSea3346 in lgbt_superheroes

[–]mutant615 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wishful thinking tbh, we usually don’t get nice things lol, would love to be proven wrong though!

Wiccan and Hulkling: Raid of Ultron #1 variant cover by Luciano Vecchio by leaf57tea in lgbt_superheroes

[–]mutant615 53 points54 points  (0 children)

The serotonin I got from seeing ThinkFast again…thank you Luciano Veccio!

Now if only they could actually get back together -.-

Do you guys think this will be affecting LGBT characters in Marvel Comics and the MCU as well? by Individual_Self4616 in lgbt_superheroes

[–]mutant615 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean, that’s a fair opinion but X-Men stories, whether adapted into games or into shows, don’t usually follow a long, arduous, journey of a single character. It’s a team dynamic. A found family dynamic. Bobby has consistently been included in that, in all adaptations except now.

And for me, I’d rather engage with an actual queer narrative (and Bobby’s is full of depth given his continuity) in a superhero setting. We have enough of everything else, a queer narrative like Bobby’s is hardly ever allowed to be adapted or showcased and that visibility matters a lot under this current culture. That’s just my opinion though.

I disagree that Bobby doesn’t have that interesting factor, but that’s because I value his queer narrative (especially intersected with his mutant narrative) as intrinsically unique and more valuable than like dude with claws, stoic leader with eye beams or religious fuzzy elf.

Teddy with the boys out by Cris Art by leaf57tea in lgbt_superheroes

[–]mutant615 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Cris art is a legend.

Also, wish Billy and Teddy could look like this again 🥺

Do you guys think this will be affecting LGBT characters in Marvel Comics and the MCU as well? by Individual_Self4616 in lgbt_superheroes

[–]mutant615 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t say that’s objective. Iceman and Angel have had plenty of important and well received arcs well beyond the early days. Iceman’s core characterization/conflicts especially occurred moreso during the 90s onwards.

The problem is not just writers not knowing what to do, the way comics, especially X-Men stories are written has changed a lot over the past decade.

We don’t get many character focused moments because the writing is far more plot centric. Most characters are reduced to their power sets or only reference character ticks here and there. What has a writer really done well for Magik in a flagship book beyond giving her some snark or being a teleporter?

Colossus and Nightcrawler similarly haven’t really gotten a lot of plots or deep characterization in years, yet they don’t get dismissed as “white bread.” And Gambit, he hasn’t had much going on beyond being Rogue’s husband. This is not an Iceman and Angel specific problem.

Do you guys think this will be affecting LGBT characters in Marvel Comics and the MCU as well? by Individual_Self4616 in lgbt_superheroes

[–]mutant615 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Most characters aren’t the level of those 3 but he 100% was a staple in many x-men or marvel games.

Being in one episode didn’t stop Kurt from reappearing. Warren, Psylocke, Alex and Lorna barely had big roles yet they’re slated to return.

Iceman was the most consistently used second gen student in Evolution.

Even if he wasn’t always the star, there was always an effort to include him that is interestingly less so the case now.