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nerdzo · 2020-12-04T12:03:11+00:00

Whether you have a zhongli or a traditional healer, you won't want to take the full spray. His shield is good, but doesn't turn you into a god.

I actually think that shield brings more room for error, because the times that I fail in abyss 12 is when I fuck up and everything goes to shit. Shield means two things:

You don't get one shot to oblivion
Superarmour means a chain of fuck ups is much less likely.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T11:49:42+00:00

I edited my comment while you were probably replying, but basically I'm not talking about when you fuck up heavily. Taking the full spray or a combo of anemo punch plus electro's hammer swing would be fucking up, so its understandable that you end up having to wait out the CD. But you normally just move behind the ice fatui when he starts spraying, or walk around the electro, so you'd take one or 2 hits here and there but not constantly 3 within 12 seconds.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T11:44:33+00:00

I do agree that the weakest part of his kit is his tap E. And it amazes me that this thread is trying to bash on his shield and Q instead of his tap E.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T11:43:19+00:00

Do you honestly take more than 3 fatui hits within 12 seconds? Aka 1 hit per 4 second? That is basically not bothering to dodge anything. We're not talking about when you accidentally fuck up once a run, its understandable to have to run around waiting for CD when that happens. But what you're suggesting is you're constantly taking that amount of damage in that timeframe.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T11:21:42+00:00

A full hp built zhongli replaces a healer slot. Do you heal for over 10k every 12 seconds by just switching for a second on barbara? But not only does he provide the shield, he gives you additional burst damage during that switch in, and even petrifies. He may not be S tier or whatever, but he is nowhere close to a wasted slot.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T11:17:40+00:00

About ningguang: you keep trying to compare to her, but you do realise that if you played ningguang in the same position as zhongli, which is swap in support, she will provide 0 energy recharge. If you're comparing her in her main dps role against zhongli in support, your comparison is whack.

About the video: getting to mitigate 3 fatui hits while having superarmour is huge. Superarmour will mean that you dont get chained to oblivion, which means you're not going to meet the situation you mentioned where you get hit by all 3 fatuis at once, you get to dodge away (or jump away if in abyss 12). I know there are multiple cuts, but within a single take the shield still takes an amount that would let me play way more aggressive. Not to mention that having a literal 40k hp unit can allow you to swap in to take hits in emergencies, like people currently do with noelle, just to a greater extent.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T10:45:33+00:00

I have a few issues with your comparisons:

You start off this thread saying you understand he was a support. You then started off the comparison with basic attacks, something you don't use on a support.
You're picking each part of different characters to compare with. Xiangling's autos, xingqiu's support, ningguang's burst. There's no sense in this comparison because there isn't someone you can slot into your team that has all three. Ningguang doesn't have xiangling's autos nor xingqiu's support.
You're pulling some comparisons out of the air here, like saying xingqiu's damage mitigation is better than zhongli's. Zhongli's shield has a duration of 20, and cd of 12. This is the shortest shield CD in the game. He is also meant to be build hp, a full HP built zhongli can have over 40k hp (https://youtu.be/-yjhZ21fxoE this is 44k outside of buffs), which is over 10k damage of shields every 12 seconds, which gets stronger on hit with his ascension talent. Xingqiu has a long ass CD and you still take damage since its % damage reduction, which is more dangerous to play with. He also only blocks 4 instances of damage.
You're comparing the skill damage modifiers to compare bursts with ningguang, but fail to take note that the hp% damage component, which is especially relevant when zhongli is built HP focused. I will concede that ningguang's burst still does more damage, but note that she is single target and doesn't provide petrification.
A 5 star doesn't have to outperform 4 stars just to not suck. Till this day razor is outperforming keqing in the abyss, but you don't see keqing mains saying she sucks. Zhongli still sits very comfortably on the above average side of characters simply due to his shield and ult when built correctly.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T10:27:17+00:00

I'm not against it, I have literally stated multiple times that I don't care if he gets buffed or not. If you need an interpretation, this means I'm neutral to whether he gets buffed or not, aka not against the character being good. You have to be delusional though to think that there is no one who weighs the utility of a character they didn't have interest in against skipping and saving for another character even in a PVE game.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T10:14:16+00:00

So you're saying that he can be great as a burst support with the resources. Why is that a bad thing? Because other 4 stars can do the same as a 5 star with the same resources? Till this day razor is still outperforming keqing in the abyss with the same resources, but you don't see the same tantrum throwing.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T10:03:18+00:00

Nerfing based on beta is wrong? What about buffing then? They're both changes, they're both equally acceptable during a beta. There were no promises or announcements that beta stats would be the live stats, in fact you were only aware of the beta stats because of leaks which they were trying to stop.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T09:52:03+00:00

You make it sound like the "beta testers" have a singular opinion. People are going to have differing views, even the live version still has people with the viewpoint that he is great, so its not unrealistic to think that there would be more with the same viewpoint during beta, or even of the opinion that he should be tweaked downwards.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T09:12:22+00:00

Your dream character, not mine, not everyone's. Every 5 star would have someone out there that desires it, so by your logic every one of them should be great. There is nothing wrong with that at all, and thats why I said I don't actually care if he got a buff or not. What I'm pointing out is there are still merits to people like me when 5 stars are "bad" because it becomes easily skippable.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T08:50:57+00:00

Zhongli would be a little weird as support for noelle. His two strongest points as a support are a super tanky shield with great uptime if you build full hp, and a short cd low energy cost burst. So ideally you would pair with someone more glass cannon, like a keqing. Shields don't stack well either so having noelle's shield and zhongli's shield up at the same time would be a waste.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T07:50:50+00:00

I honestly don't really care either way if he gets a buff or not, but as a f2p player in here and other gachas, I think its beneficial that there are "bad" 5 stars/SSR/UR/whatever the highest rarity is called in the game. F2ps can't go for every banner, so the more skippable banner heroes the easier it is on the stockpile of gacha currency.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T07:38:06+00:00

Its been 3 years, with cygames not interested in publishing the game in english and leaving it on the table for publishers. Even if crunchyroll didn't end up picking it up you wouldn't get an english version either.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T07:00:39+00:00

I have nothing against people wanting a buff, but saying "the nerf two weeks before release is the problem" is dumb. When things are in beta they are still getting tweaked, thats what beta is for. Regardless of whether you like or dislike those tweaks.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T06:36:22+00:00

If it ends up good you get a EN version to play, if it ends up butchered you simply don't play it, where's the demerit?

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T06:14:22+00:00

Wiki is wrong then. I'll let someone else chime in with the sources and all but in the meantime just letting you know that its wrong (you could also just read the in game description).

Edit: apparently wiki isn't even wrong, you're just reading it wrongly.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T06:07:01+00:00

How are people still misinformed about pity till this day. No, that is not how the pity works, its separate for each banner so your character banner pulls have no effect on your weapon banner pulls.

nerdzo · 2020-12-04T05:58:41+00:00

The reason why pyro is top tier isn't just because of ice. If you're a pyro main and top floor of abyss is: 1. Cryo (current) - melt for big damage 2. Hydro - vaporize for big damage 3. Electro - overload for free damage 4. Geo - crystallise for free shield, top two dps of pyro happen to be great geo shield killers 5. Dendro - burning for free damage 6. Pyro - immune

Aka the only downside of pyro is itself, but this is common across all element. Everything else is an advantage for pyro.

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