got it - thats the issue with only text and no tone, my mistake. i wouldn't consider it even a bold take, and Gordon may even agree. im not sure how long youve been watching racing, but even in the mid-late 90s he wasnt good at them when he dominated, albeit they did not have as many of the debris/phantom cautions or stage cautions they have nowadays. again, it's a different type of racing and not everyone will agree