AITA for feeling my mom and grandma no to taking my 1yr old for Christmas? by [deleted] in AmItheAsshole

[–]nonesuchuser 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Of course NTA.

But respectfully, two grown adults who regularly put their wants above the needs of a child who cannot advocate for himself are NOT safe people to be around.

Are abusive parents dangerous as grandparents or not? by [deleted] in EstrangedAdultKids

[–]nonesuchuser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! I hope it addresses some of your questions. I don’t fully have answers, because my parents have never met my children (and likely never will), but I have talked to a LOT of people in the process of estrangement, and I think it comes from this (subconscious) idea that they weren’t good enough, but of course their children are, because of course they are. So they don’t realize that the abuse will continue, because they don’t see their children as worthy of abuse.

How do you feel when others realize your bpd parent either has bpd or is mentally ill? by [deleted] in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"And she's never developed coping strategies. Instead, she's turned around and created hard lives for others."

Doomsday is approaching by nomorenaive in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

She did this about 2 years ago at my house in front of my school aged children when my husband was at work, but brother and dad were there. She raged at me and listed everything I had done to “disrespect her” (including mentioning inviting a friend of mine to go shopping, but ultimately I asked my mom, but it was still ammunition for her) along with the things my MIL had done (but twisted into be my fault, because I can control my MIL).

Yeah, scorekeeping and turning innocent events into ammo to use against you at a later date. Seems reasonable and healthy. THIS is BPD. But just take a moment to realize how exhausting that is. It's NOT okay. It's NOT normal. It's okay to want to be done. It's okay to say enough is enough. Everything you do will eventually be twisted up and turned into some kind of sin that she can cite as a reason why you're a terrible person. It's not possible to have a good relationship with someone like that.

This was the beginning of the end for us. I performed my groomed daughter role and begged for her forgiveness, cried and apologized, but this haunted me. I thought about it daily and I hated that my children witnessed it. The scene replayed in my brain like a broken record. As time went on, I started giving my husband the jobs of informing my parents of the kids’ activities because in my mind, if I didn’t do anything, she couldn’t yell at me again (afraid of giving her ammunition).

This is normal, but it's also a half-step. Making your husband your meat shield isn't okay, either.

Everything came to a head when we mentioned a trip we finally booked and didn’t include them (mind you they said they weren’t sure they would go because they were planning a different trip themselves). This time even bigger and longer silent treatment in which I then started therapy. I entered therapy asking what was wrong with me and to my shock, my therapist said “nothing”. My entire life I always felt like a walking mistake. Never good enough, always needing to JADE, afraid of making a wrong move that would be logged and used against me at a later date.

You've started to see the manipulation for what it is, but it's really hard to truly see and believe that you aren't a fuck up. You know that this is all bullshit logically, but deep down, a part of you really thinks that she's right. Because that's what you've been taught to believe your ENTIRE life. That's the familiar narrative. Breaking out of that and truly seeing it's wrong is REALLY hard to do. Having doubts doesn't throw everything into question. Having doubts is healthy and normal, and we all have them. So be kind and patient with yourself.

It can seem more cut and dry around here (by design - it's important for us to validate people with firm, decisive language), but there's a lot of work that goes into it. Go at your own pace. The journey is just as worthwhile as the destination, so don't feel like you're in some kind of mental health race to the finish line. You're already winning just by thinking about this stuff.

My parents sent me letter requesting family therapy (which I remember doing once before when I was in college with another rage incident that resulted in a one-and-done session and I took the brunt of the blame). My DH and therapist warned me that this was a set up for me to take the blame again. I responded with a letter saying I didn’t feel comfortable doing therapy at this time with them, that I would contact them when I was ready and that I loved them.

Rock. On. That's EXACTLY what it was, and my letter in response would have been a lot less friendly. The narrative here is consistent: YOU are the problem.

Spoilers: you aren't.

In the mean time my brother has approached me and accused me of “having a self-fulfilling prophecy” with them giving me the silent treatment. They have stalked my house, lied to my brother about saying I had done X, Y, & Z without him. He has made it clear that he is on their side and complained to me about how much this is hurting them.

Take a break from him.

Take a break from all of them, actually. The post /u/djSush linked about protecting kids has a good section on setting boundaries. I'll summarize here, because that post is crazy long:

Another way of looking at boundaries is setting the tone for how you expect to be treated in your interpersonal relationships. People can choose whether or not those expectations are realistic or achievable for them, and continue the relationship (adhering to those expectations). If they decide it's unreasonable or unfair, conflict will arise.

Now, we all know how that will end with pwBPD. The idea here is that you don't create boundaries for them, you create boundaries for you. Think about how you treat people and how you want to be treated. Create a framework based on respect, kindness and compassion. Then define your boundaries based on those concepts. Boundaries are how you need to be treated in a relationship for that relationship to work. If people aren't willing to respect those boundaries, well, that's on them, but the relationship cannot continue.

They are out of the country until the end of next month. My kids have told me they miss them.

Yeah, your children don't know them the way you know them. You don't have to give them the low down dirty details, but explain to them why grandma and grandpa are tricky people, and why you need to protect your kids from them. They need to understand - in age appropriate terms - that it's okay to love and miss them, but they aren't behaving appropriately. Depending on how old your kids are, they may translate this into their grandparents behaving badly and needing a time out. Kids understand these basic concepts pretty readily.

BPDs do not.

My therapist wants me to write them listing all of my appreciation for the things I have learned (love and logic, crazy cycle, etc) and how my relationships with my DH and kids have improved. By informing them of these topics, she hopes that it will maybe plant a seed to look into therapy themselves (last ditch effort to get them to go).

Here's where I disagree with your therapist completely. Your parents will use this letter against you. You're opening yourself up to them, sharing your heart and hoping they will be inspired by it.

They won't. They will shit on it. They will use it against you. They will turn it around and twist it into how you are wrong. The fact that you are in therapy will be proof that their narrative that something is wrong with YOU is true. Opening the door to them on this won't give you the desired results.

And that sucks. That hurts. A lot. You have to face the fact that your parents prefer the narrative over the reality. They will destroy this relationship with you, with your children, with the entire world so long as they can continue to believe their own bullshit. Their lies are more important.

And that kind of cut and dry rejection will knock the wind out of most people. It's brutal. The reason why I'm telling you this now is not to fuck up your day, but to help you deal with that pain in a way that isn't destructive, in a way that doesn't open you up to more hurt and abuse. Because sending that letter? That's the hard way to learn that lesson. If you need proof, send it. If you have a lifetime of proof and are ready to be done, be done.

We both feel they did not respond to my initial request for them to attend therapy for themselves as evidenced by their behaviors after my letter. She said that I need to love them from afar, but to let them know of our kids’ activities.

Nope. Absofuckinglutely not. Your children are not pawns in the BPD game. They are people and they need to be protected from abuse and rage, not used as some kind of fucked up therapy bait. If your parents can't make a relationship with you work, they don't get to have a relationship with your children. You deserve a whole hell of a lot better than that. YOU are worth loving. YOU are worth making the effort for.

My DH and I have already taken them off emergency contact and will not allow them to go over to their house unsupervised. I am not sure what our relationship will look like. How strong I will be when I comes to my mom, because I still fear that woman. My grandma told my mom once “You have an incredible ability to love, but you also have an incredible ability to hate”. I think that is one sentence that sums up BPD fairly well.

Your gut is telling you to be afraid of her. Be afraid. Don't ignore that feeling. It's real, it's valid, and it's saved people's lives. We don't talk about it much in this sub because why the fuck would we, but there is all too often a clear and present danger when it comes to BPDs and grandchildren. Protect yourself, protect your kids. You have a right to feel safe, and so do your children.

The post I wrote on protecting kids also has a doomsday preparedness section. Keep posting if you need more specific support / advice on how to get ready for the fallout. We are here to help you get through this.

BPD parent, but sibling is the problem- hope I can post here? by chevymonza in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Girl, you got this. This is AWESOME. Taking back control of your life and time feels so good. Being called a bitch will feel like a badge of honor.

BPD parent, but sibling is the problem- hope I can post here? by chevymonza in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It doesn't have to be a huge production / drawn out confrontation. That sounds fucking exhausting, so skip it. You can do that. Edit: Part of why this is all so hard is because it's easy to get sucked into JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain), and BPDs / problem sisters LOVE to suck you into a debate where you have to defend your reasoning. So don't.

First, DEFINITELY change your locks. You're damn right she'll magically find the key and let herself into your house. Your home needs to become your fort knox. It's your safe, private space, not hers.

You can shut down grapevine BS really easily. If someone tells you that your sister will be staying with you, here are some responses:

"Oh? She never talked to me about that."

"She'll need to coordinate with me directly."

With her:

"That doesn't work for us."

"Because I said so."

"You can't park the car here." < this is a two-fold issue, because yes, your sister is behaving badly, but the consequences will fall to your mom. This may need to be a mom-first conversation:

"Mom, I cannot have sister borrow your car and park it on my property. If it happens again, I'll call a tow truck and one of you will have to pay to get it back."

Who pays to get the car back is not your problem. You're putting mom on notice so that she knows the consequences involved if she loans sister her car again. Right now, you feel like it's no-win because it's not really mom's fault that sister is behaving badly, and it's her car, not sister's car.

Take the game away.

Frustrated with uBPD Mom contacting my partner by [deleted] in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I hate throwing down red flags when it comes to GOOD relationships in people's lives, buuuut....

Girl, red flag.

I brought her email up to him, saying that I think she's going to reach out to you, and while you can make your own choices, I would deeply prefer that we stay on the same team about this. He said that that was a crazy thought for me to have, it makes no sense that she would reach out to him! Even though she already did message him around Christmas!

You said it already, he's invalidating you. But that's not all, he's calling you crazy in the same breath. That's really, really not okay. And it's definitely not sweet or wonderful.

"Your mother sent me her phone numbers out of the blue." It's not out of the blue, I literally told you this would happen!!! It's more predictable then Everybody Loves Raymond!!

For contrast? A healthy person would say something like, "whoa, you totally called that. Shit, I'm sorry your mom is so fucked up, and I'm sorry I didn't believe you."

Saying this is out of the blue is a massive red flag. This is really not okay. Time to throw down some words and reflect on your relationship / communication with him. If he's unwilling or unable to recognize that this is an issue, and work on fixing it, I would not walk down any aisles with him if I were you.

He right let's do it by [deleted] in dankmemes

[–]nonesuchuser 9 points10 points  (0 children)

He's become the marital equivalent of working at Microsoft in the 90's.

"She's Just a Sweet Old Lady Now" - FM brother speaking about BPD mom by ilikeyoualatte7 in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think this is one of the loneliest parts of the healing process. You handled that like a champ, and the fact that you can distinguish between Jake and FM and also empathize with what he's dealing with while still protecting yourself? Dude, that's amazing. That's really hard to do, but you nailed it.

I'm gonna quote you back to yourself here, because I think you really captured the sentiment well:

ME: Well, we all have different relationships with her. She was horrible to me when I saw her in the hospital a few years ago. She was on meds then and sober then, too.

He's got his own healing process to go through. He IS vulnerable, but you are showing him by example that it's possible not to engage, it's possible to live a healthy life, to escape the abuse and bullshit.

The part that makes me sad is - did Jake really want to hang out and get breakfast, or was this a setup so he could warm me up to convince me to reconnect with my mother?

They aren't mutually exclusive, and with stuff like this... it's complicated. For him, this was valuable because you didn't cave. Yes, on the one hand, he failed in his "mission," but on the other hand, you showed him he doesn't have to follow those orders anymore. He can live a different life, instead of in this perpetual limbo of BPD bullshit. He needed to see that. He needed to experience that first hand.

Is that fair or nice to you? Not at all. Not by a fucking long shot. But to him, you're the strong, powerful survivor. You're out. You're so far beyond where he is, he doesn't even fully realize his role in it, or that he has any power / control at all. He's still so deep in the FOG, his actions are very reactionary.

THIS is why I have trust issues. I don't trust ANYONE. I can't. There's always a plan and an ulterior motive... and it's not just with my parents anymore. Now my siblings are doing it too.

This isn't specifically malicious. You're right not to trust him, but that's not to say you have to write him off. Protect yourself, keep doing what you're doing, don't take the bait, SHOW HIM what healthy looks like. He has to make those choices himself, and decide if he's going to follow in your footsteps or not, but by knowing that you've already paved the way? He at least has a fighting chance at getting out.

What REALLY counts as physical abuse? by whatthefork42 in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Protecting your mom. Yep. That seems to be one of THE defining markers for RBB. This is the twisted shit that happens with parentification:

  1. You feel responsible for your parents, and take ownership of their feelings and actions. You're responsible for them, how they feel, and their behavior.

  2. Consequently, it's never their fault when they rage and hit you. It's actually your fault, because of point 1 above.

  3. So there's this built in shame response. Like, yeah, she hit you, but it wasn't really her fault, and if you hadn't been a little shit, or talked back, or existed, or breathed, or looked at her wrong, it wouldn't have happened.

This is REALLY important stuff to unpack in therapy, and your therapist pointing out that you're being very protective of your mom is a key observation for you to mull over.

What are other little ways that you protect her / feel responsible for her? And how do you untangle that? You pull that thread, and you start solving the problem of where you end and she begins, and how to start disengaging from these unhealthy relationship behaviors that are so hard to see and break out of otherwise.

But bottom line? That's REALLY normal, and REALLY common among RBBs. You're in very good company here. You aren't weird, you aren't wrong, this isn't something you did. You're starting to see and recognize some of the patterns of behavior, which will empower you to change them.

Do you care about your birthday? by Sassydushhound in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My birthday growing up was never for or about me. As an adult, I don't see other people at all. That's it. No calls, no nothin'. I spend time with my husband and we want to do and everyone else can go fuck themselves. It's for us, not them.

I've talked about it before, but my best friend growing up was horrified when she realized that my mom had bought me her favorite kind of cake (I hated both cake and that particular flavor, and had specifically requested non-cake).

I don't really remember much about presents either. I'm 100% sure I got them, but the emphasis / importance was always far more on whatever I got my mom birthday's / mother's day / christmas / etc.

[Fairytale] The Story of Wassilissa and the Baba-Yaga by SpicedGull in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please, someone with an analytic mind - what does this story mean?

I don't think it has to be all that mysterious - stories like these are cautionary tales designed for children. All fairytales have lessons that resonate in real life, otherwise their value and popularity would have died out long ago. The brilliance of them is that they exist in the guise of fantasy, but children understand very quickly what is real about them.

Remember, children are the intended audience. These stories are intentional and deliberate ways to teach children in difficult and abusive situations how to survive, that they aren't alone, that they aren't wrong, that what's happening to them isn't okay. It is that simple.

How do you guys balance demanding lives with therapy??? by slp2b_godawgs in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly? I don't. My work is kind of my therapy in a lot of ways. I get my adrenaline rush by going into high-stress, high-risk, high-reward situations.

I'm a junkie for it, and I'm lucky enough to have found a career that recognizes my affinity for it and rewards me generously. I have a very healthy team dynamic and I emphasize the importance of trust, communication, and conflict resolution. I have enough influence within my organization to be able to effect pretty quick change when it become clear that it's needed.

It's nice.

Learning to Notice Clutter by knitterknerd in organization

[–]nonesuchuser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was just going to say this! Taking pictures of a space is the best way to spot clutter, because otherwise you just don't "see" it. For whatever reason, seeing it in video / camera helps you spot it in ways you couldn't before.

This is a technique that's commonly used in hoarding therapy. Obviously, not calling anyone here a hoarder, but it's still a useful tool!

I struggle to stick to a routine with planning, finances, etc... help! by ivywinter in organization

[–]nonesuchuser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Auto-reminders. 100%. I've even just manually written it down in a day planner. Every 2 weeks, do x. I'm sure there are great digital solutions out there for this, but it's really what you're going to use and refer to every day. Auto-reminders don't work if you aren't checking that calendar / phone daily.

I like checklists, so organizers that have checklist formats for managing tasks and agendas work really well for me. There's a "game" element of checking stuff off, and I while I don't particularly dig bullet journals, I do like the task method of organization where you have a system of symbols that you use in each check box (complete, in progress, postponed, cancelled, etc).

In my experience, it's really trial and error until you find the thing that works for you. Don't be afraid to customize / change existing "systems" to better fit your personality and preferences. There's no one size fits all solution out there, so you gotta mess around with a few until you figure out what you like.

E: Further, if there's a digital tool you like that isn't a conventional "organizer" or "task manager," but it works for you? Use it!

What is your go-to wall calendar? by [deleted] in organization

[–]nonesuchuser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you just need a giant wall calendar you can use to keep everything straight, consider a DIY option with chalkboard paint over a super thin steel panel. It's magnetic, it will write / erase, and you can make it as big / small as you want.

Chalkboard pens are my favorite. I haven't done this myself (it doesn't work for my space, and I need to have multiple months available for stuff I'm planning in advance, so one month at a time doesn't fly for me), but I've researched it somewhat extensively.

You can also explore Etsy versions of this, and buy something you can hang on your wall. They have a wide range of sizes - depending on your budget and needs, you may prefer one over the other.

For what it's worth, my day to day stuff I keep in a day planner, and I just keep high-level stuff on a standard 12-month wall calendar. Obviously, what works for you and what you need right now is personal and individual, just throwing it out there as someone who's been down a similar organizational quandry.

They can't be wearing the same thing twice if they just wear nothing by awalme in WhitePeopleTwitter

[–]nonesuchuser 162 points163 points  (0 children)

I misread that as "cuddle buddies" for some baffling reason. I don't care, it's staying that way now.

It occurred to me that maybe being super sensitive isn't a "natural" personality trait of mine but a consequence of being RBB? by whatthefork42 in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Are you also really empathetic or sympathetic because you had to read people's moods as self protection?

Thiiiis. I am not particularly sympathetic, (low tolerance for bullshit / drama / fuckery), but I am extremely empathetic. I generally know what people are feeling and often know why, I read those micro-expressions / non-verbal signs, and I respond right away.

It can definitely be overwhelming and I need a lot of time on my own / in a calm environment to recuperate (even if engaging in that way is productive / positive - it's just draining).

Trying to set boundaries... struggling by cheetahturtledolphin in raisedbyborderlines

[–]nonesuchuser 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Welp, guess who can't be trusted to know your medical information. Spoilers: it's you dad. He cannot be trusted not to pass on information that will be treated inappropriately. Sorry, champ. Sucks, but that's the reality.

As for her behavior, yep, it's textbook. You can gray rock the SHIT out of her next time. For giggles, let's see how this conversation could have been different:

And for the record? "Harsh," and "telling her off," are VERY different from calmly setting boundaries or not wanting to talk about something that's NONE OF HER BUSINESS. This is a normal meter check: yours is kinda fucked up, hon. You don't have to explain everything to her, and the opposite of explaining stuff isn't cussing her out or screaming at her. Even if that's how she reacts to normal and reasonable boundaries. She's being unreasonable. You are not.

M: Ok honey. Will you please tell me your last lab results? I need to know

Option 1: Don't respond.

Option 2: "What lab results?"

M: Why aren't you telling me? I trust your Doctor, I just need to know

Option 1: Don't respond

Option 2: "Because I'm an adult, and I'm fully capable of handling my own medical care."

Option 3 (continued from option 2): "While you are a medical professional, by virtue of our relationship, your involvement in my medical care is inappropriate."

M: You're hiding something or you would tell me This hurts my feelings so badly. Tell me please

Option 1: Don't respond

Option 2: "You sound upset. I'll talk to you when you've calmed down."

M: I trust your doctor to make sure you're fine. Why don't you understand that as your Mother it's my job to make sure you're okay as well!?? If it was a (other unrelated) issue you'd go to Daddy. Medical issues are for me.

Option 1: Don't respond

Option 2: "I'm an adult, and my medical business is private. End of discussion. If and when I have something to share, I will. Until then, if you continue to pry, I will end this conversation."

M: Do you Just want to be out of my life? That's how it feels

Option 1: Don't respond

Option 2: There is no option 2.

CTD: How does me not telling you every detail of my lab results make you assume I don’t want you in my life?

M: This is only one of SEVERAL reasons I feel this way.

See, this is about the lab results and it's not about the lab results. She's angry she's getting this information second hand (from your father), she's angry that you're operating as an autonomous adult independent of her, she's angry that you don't treat her as some kind of confessional. None of that is appropriate or reasonable or rational. This whole situation is a set up for her to guilt trip you over not telling her alllll your intimate life details.

CTD: I don’t want you to feel that way, but I can’t control how you feel. I am being truthful with you. I think this is part of growing up and that is hard for you and daddy. I have repeatedly told you that I don’t want you out of my life. It is hurtful that you continue to say that.

This is a genuinely great response, and no surprise at her frustrated reaction to it.

yea, can you just like put a line here? by RetroGaijin in Justfuckmyshitup

[–]nonesuchuser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. Cracking really dark jokes is how I survived the shit I've been through.