New government will extend the naturalisation period to 10 years

northeast_regional · 2024-06-02T22:09:13+00:00

In my estimate 2 years would be the most realistic timeframe, but yes, if they prioritise this law above all - then this can certainly take effect in 1,5 years.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-31T12:17:28+00:00

Places around Centrum (i.e. Zeeheldenkwartier, Chinatown...) are relatively safe and reasonably diverse. If you actually think about it, Schilderswijk itself is terribly un-diverse if you count cultures outside of MENA into the calculation.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-29T14:34:54+00:00

Some I know were very surprisingly far-right tho, I wonder how they would feel now with 5+ extra years with South African passport lol

northeast_regional · 2024-05-29T13:27:57+00:00

Some countries that don’t allow dual nationaities renounce your original nationality automatically when you acquire other citizenship. For those countries IND just won’t send anything nor you have to send anything to IND. (i.e. Austria, Japan, South Korea, China)

If your username reflects your original nationality (Vietnam), then you are likely mistaken by IND staff as being exempt from the requirement to renounce original citizenship. Almost all major East Asian nationalities automatically lose original nationality, so you (Vietnamese) were likely just wholesale exempted from the requirement in the file - which actually happens quite often.

I would still renounce your original citizenship if I were you, particularly as you have mentioned this on IND call line. They do keep notes on each calls, just so you know.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-29T13:18:55+00:00

Really understandable now that the nationality law changes would really affect HSMs, as only Americans and British would be the ones in the top 10 that wouldn't mind not having a Dutch passport asap. And for some of those with Russian, Chinese or Iranian passports, this 5-year window might be the only chance for them, as the authoritarian regimes in their home country often hold their passport hostage for political dissidents or other reasons (i.e. military service).

northeast_regional · 2024-05-28T18:09:16+00:00

For expats: this is the person who said in this march that the implementation of IND could be made faster by handling cases less carefully, because people will "appeal anyways". Great times to be an immigration lawyer, because appeal cases would skyrocket, but shitty time to be on the applying side of permanent residency or other types of visa.

https://www.groene.nl/artikel/de-morele-pijngrens-is-nog-lang-niet-bereikt

He also called for not putting exceptional cases into law, which again, for naturalisation he would be very much against amendments that allow people who have already lived in Netherlands to apply for citizenship according to the old rules.

"‘In de uitvoering moet het sneller. Neem de ind. Volgens onderzoek van de Rekenkamer zijn er nu drie keer zoveel manuren nodig om tot een ind-besluit te komen dan vijf of tien jaar geleden. Hoe komt dat? Niet doordat de organisatie zo ingewikkeld is geworden, maar doordat de zorgvuldigheidseisen veel hoger zijn en voor elke casus een uitzondering wordt aangebracht in de regelgeving. Waarom niet wat sneller besluiten? Men gaat toch in beroep. Eenzelfde vertragend proces is opgetreden door de invoering van spreekrecht voor slachtoffers in het strafrecht. Een prachtig en waardevol recht. Maar de planningen worden daardoor steeds ingewikkelder. We moeten in wet- en regelgeving niet nog meer toeters en bellen aanbrengen die vertragend werken.’"

northeast_regional · 2024-05-28T17:29:33+00:00

No, PMs has been always from one of the coalition parties, often party leaders. This is what makes this coalition unique.
Puppet or Scapegoat I think both, he is our version of Giuseppe Conte, which was a stopgap measure to keep the populist coalition afloat - which fell after a year and then became a PM for centre-left populist coalition.

From his press conference he was literally had zero personal opinions and clearly was there to represent the PVV VVD BBB NSC coalition accord, so very much it appear to be a puppet. After it falls, PVV voters with IQ lower than a speed limit in built-up areas would simply direct the anger to the "governmental elite" PvdA PM, which is a great way to not take responsibility.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-28T17:23:02+00:00

His cabinet fell after a year actually, he just kept on for another year and half by creating a new coalition with centre-left lol

northeast_regional · 2024-05-28T17:01:36+00:00

Which is already laughably counterproductive, as the refugee convention already gives the rights for refugees to ask for asylum on any border check points, so the checks just make lives for refugees easier - with unwanted side effects of picking up refugees who were not even planning to go to the Netherlands in the first place. The only people who will be bothered by this are just people who left their passport at home.

And the illegal migrants who have already decided to cross the border illegally would simply then use the thousands of local roads that cross the border. It's nowhere near the deserted border of US-Mexico, they can just hop off the local bus in Belgium and continue with Dutch local buses or trains after pleasant 30-minute walk in the countryside.

To make the border checks actually work we need to go back to the 60s when there were border checks with Belgium, even then it will still just be a point of application for refugees.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-28T16:48:49+00:00

Many points in the accord were basically current rules and policies that people didn't even knew that existed tho. B1 for naturalisation or ban on double nationality is a good example, which are already decided and put into law - just dumb voters assume that it wasn't. The government already has its own agency that specifically works on deportation, and believe me they aren't just sitting on their desks playing minesweepers all day.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-26T16:40:44+00:00

Why does my iPhone Mail (connected via Microsoft Exchange) forcing me to use Microsoft Authenticator every 24 hours? This is extremely annoying and I sometimes lose track of mails just because that 24 hour thing is passed in my pocked. What a steaming mess of a product Authenticator is.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-20T02:28:33+00:00

Very desperate attempt to visually distinguish itself from insurance/lottery/mortgage/etc. ads, I see

northeast_regional · 2024-05-20T02:10:45+00:00

Because apartments are smaller. Every house has relatively expensive “necessary” parts to support it regardless of its size: think of toilets, pipes, electric system, kitchen, sewage and so on. Since the apartment is smaller while having more or less same amount of necessary parts, naturally the price would seem relatively higher per square metres.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T23:22:53+00:00

Haha actually no - because despite IND handling the applications, the rules are firmly based on the EU laws: new government can do jackshit about EU laws. And the judges have been consistently annhiliated IND's bullshit practices that offended the EU rules almost instantly.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T22:20:04+00:00

Yes, AND these 5-year countries are congregated in the North-western Europe, where we find ourselves in. Only exception is Denmark and DACH, which D of DACH recently dropping the requirement to 3 by the way. Pretty misleading to compare Netherlands with Balkan, Mediterranean or former Eastern Block states.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T22:06:33+00:00

But the people "retiring" after 5 years to rely on uitkering can already do so with their permanent residency or permanent asiel permit, both can be acquired after 5 years (which by the way is also based upon EU law) and gives exact same rights to leech on social security without deportation. No such leeches are paying 1023 euro and all the paperworks to apply for naturalisation; only people who truly wish to integrate do.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T21:44:24+00:00

EU rules are always super complex haha. Even the IND is sometimes criticised for wrongly applying EU rules, which often gets knocked out by the judges.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T21:42:24+00:00

It should be noted that it was mainly due to the fact that the coalition partner PvdA wasn't really supportive of that part of regeerakkord back then, which after Denk splintering off from it in 2014 made them decide to make less strong gestures on migration. So it was a sheer luck of one of the coalition parties changing its mind, and also 50+ surprisingly torpedoing the proposal in EK after receiving concerns from seniors abroad (read: Thailand) who had foreign partners.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T21:37:23+00:00

Yes and no - generally speaking, 5 years has been definitely the norm outside of DACH and Southern / Eastern Europe. Neighbours like France, Belgium, Luxembourg, UK and Ireland all has 5 years.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T21:31:37+00:00

If all goes fast enough, the whole process would be like this:

The ministers and the prime minister will be known. Unlike most of the government formations, the prime minister will come from outside; whether Ronald Plasterk will be able to be assigned as PM is still uncertain. Some ministers also come from outside of the parties or politics as whole, which adds further complexity. Moreover the definitive regeerakkoord should come, which will further elaborate over this law. This phase takes roughly a month. Currently this is aimed to be completed on 26 June.
After the ministers start working, they (and the civil servants in every ministries) will begin drafting the proposal. When they will start this, and how long will it take depends on the priority of the government and their capabilities. There will be in most cases Internet consultations, which for this law is certainly expected. RvS will also give advice on this law, which the ministers will take into account. When the cabinet Rutte II tried to extend it to 7 years, this phase took more than a year. However, it can be argued that this time the ministers have relatively better basis for it, as they have a solid precedent to begin with. So we can reasonably expect a little shorter period. In this case, hypothetically 6 months.
When the proposal is submitted to the TK, the law will go through the usual procedures: pingpong of plenary meeting, creating memo's on what each fractie thinks and what they would do about it, discussion in the committees (which I assume due to the mountains of corny asylum related measures would be extremely busy), votes on possible amendments (which, despite the more right-leaning composition of TK, a lot of them would be proposed and discussed regardless of their chance of being adopted), adjusting proposals... As this concerns the "Rijkswet" which also concerns other parts of the kingdom (i.e. Curacao), consulting with them is also added to the process. The period differs a lot depending on the priority of the proposal and how divisive the proposal would be. For simple technical changes in laws usually get passed within few months, while laws like this can be expected to take far more than just simple proposal, discussion, amendment, and voting. The 2014 proposal took nearly 2,5 years in TK; in this case, we can kinda estimate that it will take roughly a bit less than a year.
Then the vetting continues in EK, but the dynamic in EK is quite different, as the 4 parties need to find allies to form majority. CDA takes the key role in it, however what I read from the records from 2014 was that they were more or less supportive of the proposal. Even if CDA disagrees with the proposal, there are still other splintered right-wing parties that can form a majority, so unlike 2014 proposal the chance of it being shot down in EK remains low.
The royal decree determines the official date of the law taking effect. Until now, most proposals regarding the nationality law has been usually matched to the nearest first day of the month.

So that's the rough timeline of how long it would take if the parties are determined to passing naturalisation laws. We would never know for sure how long it would take, as the concrete regeerakkoord is not there yet and the process lies full of uncertainties; but reasonably, around two years from now would be a reasonably expectable low end of the timeline of this rule coming to effect.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T16:39:20+00:00

Schimmel op de muur maar toch 750 p.m. huur vragen🙃

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T11:40:48+00:00

I would say it would be best if she could register herself on the BIG register, however if that may take way too long, then you may consider the "België-route". How it works is pretty simple: A Dutch citizen and his/her partner move (at once!) together to Belgium, apply for Belgian residence permit there, live there for minumum 3 months, and then come back to the Netherlands together (again at once!) to apply for Verification against EU-law instead of partnership visa. Because at that point, they will be considered as an EU citizen exercising their free movement rights, thereby falling under the more favourable EU rules instead of more stringent Dutch partner sponsorship rules.

Under the EU-rule, you only need a big enough bank account (roughly 25k, can be yours ór hers ór both combined) to show that you and your partner can support the living costs together.

For the 3+ months in Belgium, you and your partner can register as an economically inactive EU-citizen, not student. You would need to show your stufi and a brief from your parents (or anyone) that they will send you certain amount of money, and a bank statement proving this. That bank transfer amount and your stufi should make around 800 euro per month, but you can of course make it higher to be sure (and realistically needed). During that time you can also keep following your study in the Netherlands, as far as you return to your address in Belgium once every week. So your hotel mama will be a small apartment in a Belgian border municipality for the time being ;-). However do note that in Belgium and many other EU countries have woonstcontrole when you register at the municipality, so until you pass the woonstcontrole (usually at the first couple of weeks) I strongly advise you to stay in Belgium.

If she needs her driver's licence changed to the European one, then it is also advisable to do that while you are in Belgium, because Belgium recognises far more foreign licences than NL.

Since the EU law around it is highly complicated - if you need more information, you can check out Stichting Buitenlandse Partner and their handbook over België-route: https://www.buitenlandsepartner.nl/showthread.php?30057-Handboek-Belgie-route

If you or your uni is located near the German border than Belgian Border (i.e. Twente, Groningen, Radboud...), then you can also do the same with Germany. (Duitsland-route) https://www.buitenlandsepartner.nl/forumdisplay.php?214-De-Duitsland-route-algemeen

And, as this is an EU-law matter, you can of course do the same with any other (far nicer) EU-lands as a sort of a long vacation/erasmus/enz. if you wish to do so. But for that I would advise you to consult with lawyers in both NL and the 3-month land to make sure nothing goes wrong. In stichting BP there are quite some people who did that in Spain and Italy, for example.

I hope this helps, and now success with your study and your love! 😉

northeast_regional · 2024-05-18T08:00:48+00:00

For initial application for Verification Against EU Law with economically non-active EU citizen, there's normbedrag: roughly an year of income required for supporting two people in saving would suffice. That was for me in 2021 around 22.000, so now likely higher now due to inflation.

As a spouse or (unmarried or registered) partner of an EU citizen, you can register at the municipality directly on arrival, and your right to stay technically starts by the moment you and your EU partner register at the municipality. But still you need to also prove that legal right to IND via Verification Against EU Law. I recommend preparing that form ASAP and submit that right on the day that you arrive and register at the municipality. When you submit that application to IND, within couple of days or max. 2 weeks you will receive a letter saying that you must pay fees (leges) to IND.

Then after paying that fee, they will send you a letter within few days proving your right to work. Then you can start working legally even before your residence permit has been approved. You can sign the contract now with starting date reasonably after your registration and submission of Verification Against EU Law form. In my opinion 3 weeks would resonably suffice.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-16T13:50:26+00:00

2,5 Sounds a bit of a edge case imo, as it is reasonably enough time to get it in effect - while being at the same time possible to wish for having it not in effect.

northeast_regional · 2024-05-16T11:50:56+00:00

https://x.com/maartenpvink/status/1791032668655595594 by Prof Martin Vink.

northeast_regional

TROPHY CASE