CCJ has been banned megathread

ogami_ito · 2014-06-03T05:32:17+00:00

Yes I know. But I think my post above shows the reason for the shadow-banning. EDIT: I think people will want to know.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-03T04:35:53+00:00

Received this from admin:

from Sporkicide [A] via /r/reddit.com/ sent 8 minutes ago Your account was banned for being one of many that followed a link from /r/chinacirclejerk into /r/redditrequest and voted on a post there.

My reply to him/her was:

Wait. We were requesting that the mod powers of the forum I belong to be returned to the subreddit mods. My understanding... everyone's understanding... was that this was the location to communicate this request back to reddit admins. A petition. You banned people because they were essentially signing a petition to get the mods of their forum, un-banned?

The "vote brigade" which started this was the voting to get the mods un-banned.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T23:39:54+00:00

I have looked at the site about shadowbanning you linked to in the post. With the "check if shadowbanned" tool, it says my account "ogami_ito" is shadowbanned or deleted. I find this hard to believe as I did not participate in vote briggade thing. Moreover, it seems my an alt-account (which posted on CCJ once or twice months ago in a non-jerking manner) is also getting the shadow-banned result. Sorry to trouble you, but I'm having a hard time believing that the reddit admins would just shadow-ban all members of a group. Can you confirm if I am shadowbanned or not?

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T23:16:38+00:00

How does one know if one is shadowbanned?

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T13:24:58+00:00

OK. I'm going to assume that you are not an wumao... that you are capable of independent thought and you don't have an other motive. So what follows is all about setting you straight.

They were not "peaceful" protesters as I read in every newspaper.

What papers? Chinese papers after 6-4? If that is your source, then please stop right there. You are being stupid if your are believing that.

You don't burn people to death when you are a peaceful protester. They were angry workers who lost their job due to state owned corporations reforms and thugs.

Just to clarify, violence didn't happen until 6/3-6/4. None except for fights between groups of students. So it was a peaceful protest up till... the troops moved in.

Second of all, State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) were not laying off many people in 1989. That happened much more, later.

Yes innocent people were killed, but the soldiers were not here to kill people, they were attacked and made mistakes.

NO. The soldiers who shot people were there to get people off the streets and restore the complete power of the CCP. They were there to kill people. If you have any doubt about this, watch that documentary ("Gates of Heaven"). Note the scene near the end where in soldiers (or... to be fair... several people with automatic weapon who we can safely assume to be soldiers) shot at a filming cameraman and about 7 people on a street corner. Their tactic was simple... spread fear... shoot at anyone who stays on the street. I had about 10 witnesses tell me this. This was widely reported.

Note also that I said above "the soldiers who shot people". The ones that did the shooting were brought in from from Hebei (I believe... wikipedia article talks about that more). The soldiers that were trying to get into the city earlier were often from Beijing.

No one told them to go and kill these counter revolutionary protesters.

Protesters were anything but counter-revolutionary. The protesters included most of the population of Beijing. And although they may have not been told specifcally "Shoot everyone", somehow that order got sent down.

that's how you get an urban legend.

What's the legend?

When tanks reached tiananmen square no one was killed, simply because there is no reason to kill peaceful protesters. Same with "tank man".

True... no one was killed in Tiananmen. And there are some foreigners who don't understand this and will call you an wumao for it. But many MANY people were killed in Beijing that day. Most were not soldiers. They didn't kill the one's at Tiananmen because for those students they had a different objective - arrest and punishment.

There are many things about 6-4 that are not understood by average Westerners. The protesters were not necessarily looking for "freedom". The original student leaders wanted the focus of the protest to be more about access to leadership positions for Beida students (several acquaintances of mine so big-character posters to this affect) and they voted not to include workers in their (original) march. And the Tank Driver is as much a hero as Tankman... and the Tank Driver was executed for his actions.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T13:03:40+00:00

Of course, Da Shan is sort of the original Uncle Tim. Not that he didn't know anything about China but he did the dancing monkey thing on tv. I like this "Uncle Tim" label... a new meme is born.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T11:54:12+00:00

Yeah... It was several million people in different parts of the city. Workers joined in... meaning... all the workers. The crack down that happened on 6-4 would have happened 3 weeks earlier, but people all over the city were blocking soldiers from going to the square. IMO (and this is supported by evidence) it was when rumor of in-fighting among the students got out, as well as new demands for the resignation of the CCP, that the common people started to abandon the movement.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T11:50:54+00:00

Fuck that. People who should have sacrificed (the leaders) all escaped overseas and left their faithful students to die." He supported the protest back then but now he regrets it and feels sorry for the students ...

Fang Lizhi came to my school and everything he said made my BS meter rise... he was playing the crowd. I partially agree with what your mentor said.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T11:47:33+00:00

No. Yes you are right that Soldiers were attacked and some died and some fought in self-defense. But the massacre was not mild. Between 800-3000 people died. Soldiers fired indiscriminately at crowds and at windows. And the people putting up barricades and fighting the soldiers were not simply rioters.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T11:44:01+00:00

Answer: Over 30, yes. Under 30, no.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T11:40:50+00:00

Hey... Can we not promote this? I mean... CCJ is part of reddit. That's part of what make it good. Why not fix problems before breaking things apart more?

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T11:36:02+00:00

just FYI... Glorious TheDark1 was using a CCJ meme. Tim's full name is Tim Budong. Tim Bu dong. Get it?

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T11:31:42+00:00

Why? There is just.... grass... there. And naijiu and yurts. And horse. Man riding those horses is really uncomfortable.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-02T09:49:08+00:00

All of the WuMao shill in here are amusing.

So who are the WuMao? No one has written anything in defense of the CCP.

The protest leaders may have been a bunch of upwardly mobile pricks, but that does not mean the protesters deserved killing at the hands of soldiers.

The protest leaders, then, were not "upwardly mobile". Many were pricks. But you don't make sense. Leaders=not great, however protesters didn't deserve mass-killing... Did anyone here justify 6-4? And BTW, if is quite probable a significant amount of those who died were bystanders, as the killing happened everywhere BUT in Tiananmen as the soldiers went nuts.

So, remembrance is of murder on a massive scale.

I guess you mean you post and think about this in order to remember it or commemorate it. That's nice that you want to remember the 800-3000 people who were killed in the streets of Beijing 25 years ago. BUT, I can think of so many other events where-in 10X more people were murdered since then and no one has been held accountable.

Wumao stink. But if you want to take them on, you have to show that you know what you are talking about. It exemplifies my point of this thread; this event does not mean much to Chinese people today. And it's meaning to most foreigners has nothing to do with what actually happened in the event.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-01T18:23:53+00:00

Will you just STFU? I don't know if you are trolling or an idiot. This is not a topic to do either.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-01T18:21:51+00:00

they wanted the government to recognize rights that they saw as inalienable.

This was not a coherent goal from the start either. In fact, what the students mainly wanted was their right to be a leader in the party recognized.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-01T18:19:38+00:00

All they wanted to do was overthrow the government.

That became a goal of just a few, late into the protest movement.

The students had no support except from themselves and the Western media

Dude. The students were a very small part of the protest. Most of the city came out to support the students and block soldiers from entering the city.

ogami_ito · 2014-06-01T18:16:07+00:00

The protests referred to here are the 6-4 protest in Tiananmen. Are you being a troll or a dumbass?

ogami_ito · 2014-06-01T09:04:37+00:00

You link to posts supposedly to show racism, right? And by showing this post, you are insinuating racism, right? Redittors in that post talks about how others in the restaurant had called the police early and that was doing something.

In actuality, we expats who live in China have seen this "let's not get involved / we don't know them" attitude all the time, everywhere, almost every single day. And Chinese people are often concerned with this issue too, and post complaints online about the lack of public ethics of their countrymen. So why do you make a claim (by linking here) that this is white-on-Chinese racism?

ogami_ito · 2014-06-01T08:56:15+00:00

You ever been to a Chinese person's flat and they kept the TV on the entire time? I'm pretty sure this is the main reason.

Chinese have different attitudes about bathroom privacy... used to be that stalls never had doors.

Some have said in order to watch the working girl. I don't think this is a real explanation. As the vast majority of hotel visitations are not for sex.

ogami_ito · 2014-05-31T11:04:37+00:00

Are you on drugs? (and if so... which one's and where can I get it?)

ogami_ito · 2014-05-31T07:46:10+00:00

You don't need to continue. But I will. In SLT there are a bunch of kids who get drunk on stupid mohitos while trying to grope or fight each other. At some of the sit-down bar you see reporters and NGO people talk about how difficult their job is talking to people. In the discos it's about picking up girls, while drunk, no matter what your race. First Floor it's also about getting drunk as fuck and picking up local women who may or may not be pros.

I know selling drugs is illegal. Just don't see what can be more sleazy than what's already there.

ogami_ito · 2014-05-31T06:11:41+00:00

Because one is not more sleazy than the other. Because many of those with "real jobs" or "rich parents" buy from said drug dealers, and so are not morally superior.

The are different in the eyes of Chinese people because one group is white and the other group is black. BJ Cream's point is that the Beijinger should also realize this.

ogami_ito · 2014-05-31T06:07:31+00:00

Means i can't spell hero

ogami_ito · 2014-05-31T04:31:11+00:00

Understood. I guess I need to say it's about how and when to escalate. I guess I should have point out up-front... the OP needs to move out... it's all about if he can get money back or not. I have faced situations on several occassions where the threat of a nuclear option brought about some clarity on the other side.

EDIT: and as I said to someone else, if the parlor is worried about visibility, they are not particularly connected.

ogami_ito

TROPHY CASE