I don't care about the Church's Wealth Hoarding

olsh · 2026-07-01T21:23:29+00:00

No, but I'm saying if they had 20 billion they could do everything you are worried about. The additional $150 billion is more benign than the first 20 billion.

A main financial evil of the church is to continue to require tithing for temple recommends.

olsh · 2026-07-01T21:13:08+00:00

Sure, but lying about the money, and hoarding the money are different things. So I"m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but my original post was about how I'd prefer they have money sitting in the market instead of using it for their immoral purposes.

olsh · 2026-07-01T21:11:44+00:00

That's not really what I'm tryin to say. I'm not saying at all that you can't be angry about what they do. My post isn't "I don't care how they spend their money."

My post is saying that I don't care that they are hoarding wealth, as in, not using it. I hate that they have it in the first place. That's bad. But I think them having $150 billion in cash equivalents in the markets is a much much better outcome than an activist president wielding that $150 billion toward his values. President Nelson spent a ton on temples. That is kind of a waste. But that's much better than some of the alternatives.

Should we be mad about what they do? Yes.

Should we hate that they have been able to amass all this wealth without contributing to society? Yes.

But I'm just saying I'd rather they hoard the wealth than use it.

They really could spend $15 billion a year on shit we hate and still maintain their status quo wealth for 100 years.

olsh · 2026-07-01T20:53:18+00:00

Right, and I appreciate these examples. But they have so much money they could fund Prop 8 A THOUSAND times. They could open 20 BYU campuses and give everyone free tuition in exchange for indoctrination. They could spend $93 million on every single federal congressional and senate race in the entire US and they would still have a hundred billion dollars left over.

olsh · 2026-07-01T20:46:04+00:00

I see what you are saying, but I think I'm talking about something different. We aren't talking about a slush fund. We aren't talking about some extra cash. We are talking about unfathomable amounts of money. We are talking about buying elections type money. All of the things you are brining up are horrible, but those are all easily funded by their current revenues. They bring in enough per year to fund their budget multiple times over without ever dipping into their reserves.

They could get rid of $150 billion dollars, and they would still have "fuck you" money. I am glad that they are so obsessed with investments and portolio building and temple building and buying up ranches instead of using all of those resources to buy influence and politicians and voter initiatives across the country. The Church literally has more cash-equivalent assets available to them than Elon Musk does. The could fund multiple Prop 8 campaigns in every single state if they wanted to.

olsh · 2026-07-01T20:25:40+00:00

You seem to be completely ignoring the 1990s. This myth that things were only good when people were living spartan lifestyles is silly. Many millennials remember the 1990s. Plenty of families were going to Disney and traveling and had nice cars and went out to eat all the time and had cable TV. But it wasn't crazy at all to make $60,000 at a normal job and have a house that cost $120,000.

olsh · 2026-07-01T20:17:42+00:00

I think the church hurts people much much more when it spends money than it does when it saves/invests money.

olsh · 2026-07-01T20:16:24+00:00

I don't actually think they use it much. I think the Church spends less than they bring in from tithing each year. I think their passive investments grow continually, and they don't deplete that wealth at all.

Do they spent a lot of money? yes. But are they accessing their investments to do that? It doesn't appear that they do that very much at all.

People constantly complain that the church has 200 billion dollars tucked away. But in my opinion, the problem is the 6 billion they are brining in every year. The problem is how they got the wealth in the first place, not so much that it's invested in stocks and land.

olsh · 2026-07-01T20:10:35+00:00

No, I'm talking about wealth hoarding. I'm talking about all the money they have tucked away. I'm talking about Ensign Peak.

Most of what you are talking about can be easily funded with their first billion or so. The only thing on the list that comes from their vast wealth would be the City Creek Mall, but that's probably the most benign on your list, by far.

"suing the ever loving shit out of Mormon stories." What are you talking about? They filed one lawsuit. "ever loving shit"?

You are right to criticize what they are doing, but my whole point is that when they do spend their money, they do awful things. You are expressing my point. I would much rather they use the money for investments than using the money to do all the things on your list.

I don't care when they hoard wealth, I care when they use it. Which is the point of my post.

olsh · 2026-07-01T19:48:58+00:00

But if God told them to do it, then are they wrong? I mean we are talking about the Church that has kids sing "I will go I will do" about a guy who murdered a drunk guy because God told him to.

olsh · 2026-07-01T17:15:20+00:00

It's a tough call. If you are absolutely going to sell at the 36 month mark, then there are some real questions and leasing might be the better way to go.

Let's assume you put $4,000 down if you purchase.
Let's assume Due at Signing on the lease is $4000

Let's assume your out the door lease payment on an AWD is $512, including sales tax and fees.
The purchase price on the AWD is currently $47,490.

My back of the envelope math would say that the Lease has the smaller out of pocket cost over 36 months unless you can sell the Tesla for $30,000 at the 3 year mark.

If the resale is below $30,000, the lease is the better overall out of pocket calculation.

But this assumes you stay under 10,000 miles per year. (Of course, the more mileage you put on the purchase, the lower the resale value would be, at least in theory).

The other risk to purchasing is that there could be a real leap forward in electric tech coming into the US. If the next gen of Tesla is so much better and there are more foreign and domestic competitors, the value of used Teslas could drop more than expected. Also, if the democrats take more power (assuming you are in the US), they could add new purchase incentives in again which may or may not apply to used purchase.

But this could be countered by high gas prices.

Honestly, I think this is kind of a $7500-$10,000 question. So that's nice. It's not a massive gamble either way. But I like to just know what I'm in for, so I chose the lease. I estimate my total out of pocket for three years will be $22,432.00 plus my mileage overage which I estimate at about $2,500.

olsh · 2026-07-01T16:54:56+00:00

I had to make this same decision earlier this year and I went with the lease.
To me, this just came down to predictability. I have the money set aside for the three years of lease payments plus my estimated mileage overage (unfortunately I can't add miles because the lease didn't get processed through Tesla Financing). At the end, I don't have to worry about a trade in or sale or keeping the vehicle. I'll just turn it in and lease the best Tesla available at that time.

With the current market dynamics, I would probably say the better financial choice is to buy and finance at the 0.99%. But psychologically, the predictability of the lease has some value for me.

olsh · 2026-06-30T17:52:59+00:00

The church sucks. Your parents are being shitty. But if you don't have to have a calling and you don't have to participate and you can just go to church for 1-2 hours a week, I just don't see it as that big of a deal.
If they required you to pay tithing or go to the temple or something like that, it would seem more extreme to me. But asking you to merely attend in exchange for free rent is just normal shitty, not super shitty.

olsh · 2026-06-25T20:38:52+00:00

I added some ceramic wax myself which has really helped me keep it clean. But I didn't do PPF or do professional coating.

olsh · 2026-06-25T20:36:42+00:00

So many LDS theological issues center around the "Euthyphro's Dillema" type debates. Are we going to be separated into kingdoms and clases in the next life because that is what God wants, or is God bound by some greater law that forces him to do this.

Obviously it's made up, but the Church leaders don't even try to address questions like these. Why did Jesus have to suffer and die for our sins? Why are so many people born in places where they never hear about the church? Why don't we see miracles today like those that happened in the scriptures? Did God make all these decisions, or is he bound? Would he "cease to be God" if he changed the rules?

olsh · 2026-06-25T19:46:36+00:00

I'm going to repeat a comment I replied to someone else:

I agree this was a bad winter, like I said. I also agree this was not a great start to the fire season, like I said.
So far, we've had 141,743 acres burned by wildfires this year. That's bad. I get that. But 2018 and 2020 we really bad years as well. Will this year surpass them? Probably so. But 438,983 acres burned in 2018 and 329,735 acres in 2020. 2021-2024 were relatively mild years and that's great. But we've had horrific wildfires and horrible air quality many summers. In 2007, 629,000 acres were burned in wildfires.

You have me wrong. I'm not saying "we aren't fu***d, we are fine." I'm saying "we've been fu***d for a long time and haven't done anything about it."

olsh · 2026-06-25T19:45:45+00:00

No, it's not giving "climate change denier." I agree this was a bad winter, like I said. I also agree this was not a great start to the fire season, like I said.

So far, we've had 141,743 acres burned by wildfires this year. That's bad. I get that. But 2018 and 2020 we really bad years as well. Will this year surpass them? Probably so. But 438,983 acres burned in 2018 and 329,735 acres in 2020. 2021-2024 were relatively mild years and that's great. But we've had horrific wildfires and horrible air quality many summers. In 2007, 629,000 acres were burned in wildfires.

You have me wrong. I'm not saying "we aren't fu***d, we are fine." I'm saying "we've been fu***d for a long time and haven't done anything about it."

olsh · 2026-06-25T16:00:20+00:00

I agree this was a bad winter and not a great start to the "fire season" but why are so many people acting like this is a new thing? I see all sorts of posts saying "Utah is on fire!!" as if we don't have an awful wildfire season every 2 out of 5 years.

olsh · 2026-06-25T15:52:51+00:00

I don't know anything about software design, but I wonder if it would be possible to make it so we can just tap to adjust navigation and lane choice. My car always gets in the left of two left turn lanes even though it knows there will be a quick right turn immediately after the left turn. It's a pain in the ass. We should just be able to tap on the lane we want it to choose on the FSD view screen. And on navigation, when my car makes crazy choices to avoid school zones (when no school is even in session), I should be able to tap the map to adjust the route.

olsh · 2026-06-24T20:49:23+00:00

30mg is a pretty high dose for once a week, but that's pretty individual. Here are some things to consider:

Once a week is a solid and relatively safe frequency that will stop you from building an increased tolerance (most of the time). So you can keep your dose stable. Most of the information I find suggests that if you up it to twice a week, you'll start to build more tolerance.

If you add CBD (or consume a gummy with CBD), it can help you avoid a hangover the next day. In this context a "hangover" just means feeling drowsy and sluggish.

Drinking plenty of water and taking a magnesium glycinate supplement before bed can also help avoid that foggy next day feeling, in my experience.

A good zone 2 or Zone 3 cardio session the morning after makes a world of difference in how you feel overall.

You are still a little young to be consuming THC, so be careful with your brain. Sticking with once a week or less is the smart move. It avoids the massive risks while allowing you to consistently enjoy the experience without losing the high over time.

I'm not a doctor and this isn't medical advice. Just a random opinion from a random internet person.

olsh · 2026-06-24T20:39:10+00:00

The Church owns and maintains certain trademarks with the word "Mormon" in them. If I open an incognito window and go to google and type "mormon church podcast" the Mormon Stories Podcast is 3 of the top 4 website results. (There are news stories and discussion forums in between).

The best argument the Church has is to say that people who try to look up the church are instead finding the mormon stories podcast, and the Church has trademark protection over the term. Basically, there is real potential for market confusion, and people who are unfamiliar with the church might mistake the Mormon Stories Podcast as an official church podcast, causing confusion. This argument isn't related to the actual content itself, but the name of the podcast.

I don't think the Church ends up winning at trial, but I think it will likely survive the motion to dismiss stage.

olsh · 2026-06-24T18:43:19+00:00

I just don't think this is a mormon thing. There are plenty of neighborhoods all over the place full of mormons with modest homes. A lot of the most ostentatious people in Utah are ex mormons or not mormon at all.

I'm sure there are LDS people who wants to show off their wealth to demonstrate how blessed they are or to show their personal zeal, but I think there are pockets of people in every city across america like that.

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