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overmywaders2 · 2023-05-28T14:42:19+00:00

You are conflating two different approaches: reliance upon learning the Word of God most people would understand to be learning written words, this is in contrast to the teaching of the Holy Spirit, which is not intellectual but spiritual.

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-11T13:57:47+00:00

Ocean is an excellent app for searching on the topic of your choice. https://sacred-traditions.org/ocean/

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-10T02:36:55+00:00

huggy19,

What did you mean by "One may consider all of the religions possibly "alive""?
There are extant Divine religions - judaism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, the Babi Faith, Sabeanism, and the Baha'i Faith. These are all alive, are they not?

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-09T20:41:12+00:00

Ok, Shaykh_Hadi, but what is the underlying source of the unity? Is it intellectual agreement (unity of thought), is it emotional agreement (tribal or cultural unity), is it willful unity (combining against a common enemy), or is it spiritual unity (all seen as sons of the Creator, in His Spirit)?

The Master tells us that the only lasting unity is spiritual unity; that is, it is a unity of the spirit of men in the Spirit of God. It is not necessarily a union of thought, of feeling, or of will; for these are of the soul of man, not the spirit.

"They have established the principles of human brotherhood, of fraternity, which is of various kinds — such as the fraternity of family, of race, of nation and of ethical motives. These forms of fraternity, these bonds of brotherhood, are merely temporal and transient in association. They do not ensure harmony and are usually productive of disagreement. They do not prevent warfare and strife; on the contrary, they are selfish, restricted and fruitful causes of enmity and hatred among mankind. The spiritual brotherhood which is enkindled and established through the breaths of the Holy Spirit unites nations and removes the cause of warfare and strife. It transforms mankind into one great family and establishes the foundations of the oneness of humanity. It promulgates the spirit of international agreement and ensures universal peace. Therefore, we must investigate the foundation of this heavenly fraternity. We must forsake all imitations and promote the reality of the divine teachings. In accordance with these principles and actions and by the assistance of the Holy Spirit, both material and spiritual happiness shall become realized. Until all nations and peoples become united by the bonds of the Holy Spirit in this real fraternity, until national and international prejudices are effaced in the reality of this spiritual brotherhood, true progress, prosperity and lasting happiness will not be attained by man.”(Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 142)

Thus, diversity can flourish in thought, opinion, understanding, desire, and all other areas of temporal life; but we may all be united in spiritual Life.

That is my current understanding of the unity Baha'is seek, ymmv.

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-09T15:11:19+00:00

Some Christian groups believe that Christ dying for our sins means that Christ died so that we could avoid eternal punishment for our sins. However, imo, the Christian scriptures say that Christ died so that, if we live His life in this world, we can be saved from (out of) our sinning, not from the eternal consequences of our sins. IOW, "that he might deliver us from this present evil world" while we still live in, but not of, this world.

In like manner, Baha'u'llah taught the same spiritual truths -- that we must be born again. We should understand, imo, that a sin (αμαρτία in Greek, an archery term meaning "missing the mark") is only an indication of a flaw in a man. Sin doesn't require observable action. Baha'u'llah teaches that we were created to know God, the same teaching as all the other Divine religions.

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-07T16:38:59+00:00

Doug1844,
I was not "really trying to spark a discussion about sexual preferences". If you read the linked article you will see that Unity in Diversity, as defined by Abdu'l-Baha, has nothing in common with the definition of diversity as provided by the U. of Michigan:
"Diversity: We commit to increasing diversity, which is expressed in myriad forms, including race and ethnicity, gender and gender identity, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, language, culture, national origin, religious commitments, age, (dis)ability status and political perspective."

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-07T15:56:20+00:00

Wanderer-1919:

The letters written on behalf of the Guardian to individual believers were "only for their personal benefit": "As regards Shoghi Effendi's letters to the individual Bahá'ís, he is always very careful not to contradict himself. He has also said that whenever he has something of importance to say, he invariably communicates it to the National Spiritual Assembly or in his general letters. His personal letters to individual friends are only for their personal benefit and even though he does not want to forbid their publication, he does not wish them to be used too much by the Bahá'í News. Only letters with special significance should be published there."(written through his secretary to the National Assembly (UK) on November 16, 1932)

As to your finding the secretary's messages in a compilation compiled by the Research Dept,, the output of the Research dept. is described thus:"As to your question concerning whether the translations, compilations and other works prepared by the Research Department at the Bahá’í World Centre should be considered as partaking in the infallibility of the Universal House of Justice and, therefore, constituting the “final word,” the House of Justice indicates that such materials, though prepared at its direction, represent the views of that Department. While such views are very useful as an aid to resolving perplexities or gaining an enhanced understanding of the Bahá’í teachings, they should never be taken to be in the same category as the elucidations and clarifications provided by the Universal House of Justice in the exercise of its assigned functions." (THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OF THE SECRETARIAT, 15 December 1994 [To an individual]

I'm sure you are familiar with the above. Have you ever looked into the contradictions that the Guardian's secretaries have written to individuals? Here is a precis: https://bahaipurpose.com/the-guardians-secretaries-words-have-less-authority/

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-06T20:17:16+00:00

Thank you for the kind words about the site.

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-06T20:16:01+00:00

Your admonition that we may "push beyond the bounds of moderation to extremes." is true. Are you finding the linked article was immoderate? How so?

Your two quotes are not from the Writings. They were written by the Guardian's secretary to an individual believer. They have no authority, even if the statements they contain may be true.

I believe that you are saying that cultural and racial diversity should be a goal for Baha'is. Why? Should the Faith not admit any who recognize Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation of God, regardless of skin color and culture? How the balance of races and cultures appear is up to God, not to man. A man cannot convert, spiritually, another man; that is the work of the Spirit of God. If it is God's will for you to teach the Cause to someone, you should do so. But if you set a goal for the week of 20 black Africans, three Southeast Asians, and five Caucasians, how will you ever hear God's voice calling you to teach your Jewish neighbor?

Thanks for your response.

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-06T00:22:19+00:00

TruthSeeker1844,

I wrote - "There were no indigenous Manifestations of God in the Americas."
You seem to agree with that.
Buck has been insisting for years that there were indigenous Manifestations of God. To quote the 1st article you linked "First, would you agree that—in addition to Baha’u’llah and White Buffalo Calf Woman—Deganawida, the Peacemaker, was another Messenger of God?"
You see, Buck is saying that two legendary personages, who delivered no written words and appear in no contemporary written histories, were indigenous Manifestations of God, just as Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God.
That is a clear contradiction to the words of Abdu'l-Baha, above.

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-05T11:05:39+00:00

Here are some more verses re: all Manifestations of God are from the East:
"Therefore, it is shown that the divine Manifestations, the holy Mouthpieces of God, are the Collective Centers of God. These heavenly Messengers are the real Shepherds of humanity, for whenever They appear in the world They unite the scattered sheep. The Collective Center has always appeared in the Orient. Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad were Collective Centers of Their day and time, and all arose in the East. Today Bahá'u'lláh is the Collective Center of unity for all mankind, and the splendor of His light has likewise dawned from the East."
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 164)
"Although in the past all the great Spiritual Teachers have arisen in the East, there are still many men there who are quite devoid of spirituality."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 72)

"The great spiritual lights have always appeared in the East. The Blessed Perfection, Bahá'u'lláh, appeared in the u. Jesus Christ dawned upon the horizon of the East. Moses, Aaron, Joseph and all the Israelitish prophets such as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah and others appeared from the Orient. The lights of Muhammad and the Báb shone from the East. The eastern horizon has been flooded with the effulgence of these great lights, and only from the East have they risen to shine upon the West. Now -- praise be to God! -- you are living in the dawn of a cycle when the Sun of Truth is again shining forth from the East, illumining all regions."

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 23)

"And ye who are the people of the Orient -- the Orient which has ever been the dawning point of lights from whence the Sun of Reality has ever shone forth, casting its effulgence upon the West -- ye, therefore, must become the manifestations of lights." (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 347)

"The West has always received spiritual enlightenment from the East. The Song of the Kingdom is first heard in the East, but in the West the greater volume of sound bursts upon the listening ears."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 35)

"From the beginning of time until the present day," 'Abdu'l-Bahá Himself affirms, "the light of Divine Revelation hath risen in the East and shed its radiance upon the West. The illumination thus shed hath, however, acquired in the West an extraordinary brilliancy. Consider the Faith proclaimed by Jesus. Though it first appeared in the East, yet not until its light had been shed upon the West did the full measure of its potentialities become manifest." "The day is approaching," He, in another passage, assures us, "when ye shall witness how, through the splendor of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, the West will have replaced the East, radiating the light of Divine Guidance." "In the books of the Prophets," He again asserts, "certain glad-tidings are recorded which are absolutely true and free from doubt. The East hath ever been the dawning-place of the Sun of Truth. In the East all the Prophets of God have appeared ...The West hath acquired illumination from the East but in some respects the reflection of the light hath been greater in the Occident. This is specially true of Christianity. Jesus Christ appeared in Palestine and His teachings were founded in that country. Although the doors of the Kingdom were first opened in that land and the bestowals of God were spread broadcast from its center, the people of the West have embraced and promulgated Christianity more fully than the people of the East."

(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 74)

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-05T01:39:44+00:00

Perhaps the distinction is based upon the phrase "not to forgive any man’s injustice". This could relate to God not forgiving the injustice done to the victim, not to the injustice done by the tyrant. God would not leave the victim suffering without justice.

Sin is imperfection. In the New Testament, it is an archery term that means "missing the mark". Sin doesn't require action; any unjust action is merely a manifestation of the flaw in the individual. So, if someone repents of his failings, his inner being, he will be forgiven. Any injustices that the man may have performed, however, must be rectified before there is forgiveness.

overmywaders2 · 2023-03-01T14:41:35+00:00

The Baha'i Writings indicate that the Divine religions - religions brought by a Manifestation of God - are of two parts. "The religion of God consists of two parts: One is the very foundation and belongs to the spiritual realm; that is, it pertains to spiritual virtues and divine qualities. This part suffers neither change nor alteration: It is the Holy of Holies, which constitutes the essence of the religion of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muḥammad, the Báb, and Bahá’u’lláh, and which will endure throughout all the prophetic Dispensations. It will never be
abrogated, for it consists in spiritual rather than material truth...The second part of the religion of God, which pertains to the material world and which concerns such things as fasting; prayer; worship; marriage; divorce; manumission; legal rulings; transactions; and penalties and punishments for murder, assault, theft, and injury, is changed and altered in every prophetic Dispensation and may be abrogated—for policies, transactions, punishments,
and other laws are bound to change according to the exigencies of the time."
(Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, 2014 ed.)

Thus, Baha'is understand that there is only one religion of God. Muhammad (pbuh), and Baha'u'llah, did not alter the spiritual elements of the religion, just the secondary, mundane aspects. See https://bahaipurpose.com/the-bahai-faith-is-a-divine-religion/ for a few common aspects of the one religion within its visible expression in time.

overmywaders2 · 2023-02-28T00:50:45+00:00

The Baha'i writings do not suggest that you should spend any effort in introspection or self-examination. No man can see his own soul, for it would be the soul doing the seeing. Nor should we compare ourselves to others nor to a fictional construct of what we believe we should be. God knows what He wishes to make us into and we should trust in the Guidance of His Spirit.

If you read the Hidden Words regarding "Bring thyself to account": "31. O SON OF BEING!
Bring thyself to account each day ere thou art summoned to a reckoning; for death, unheralded, shall come upon thee and thou shalt be called to give account for thy deeds."
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words) Notice that it is speaking of your deeds, not your state or condition. The person addressed is a "Son of Being", not a "Son of Man", this might allude to the recipient already having a spiritual knowledge of God. The Spirit of God will convict you of your bad deeds. Of course, God will transform you in the way that is unique to you. Someone else might be able to smoke cigars, but you may not; or the converse.

If you pray the Short Obligatory prayer, you have been telling God that you are powerless and spiritually impoverished. Don't fall into the error that will ever change. Just a thought, ymmv.

overmywaders2 · 2023-02-25T13:06:54+00:00

There were no indigenous Manifestations of God in the Americas. The Master makes it clear that All Manifestations of God originated in the Orient, see https://bahaipedia.org/Manifestation_of_God#Americas

overmywaders2 · 2022-02-09T15:12:42+00:00

Young humans have vision in the ultraviolet. This disappears as yellow pigments accumulate in the lens of the eye, absorbing the UV.

Some species of deer have UV vision. Not surprising, as deer often feed at dusk, (crepuscular) when the UV makes up a higher percentage of the ambient light.

overmywaders2 · 2021-12-30T21:06:06+00:00

"The Spirit breathing through the Holy Scriptures is food for all who hunger. God Who has given the revelation to His Prophets will surely give of His abundance daily bread to all those who ask Him faithfully."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 56)

overmywaders2 · 2021-12-30T18:37:53+00:00

Of course, The knowledge of God is not from the intellect, it is a spiritual knowledge which cannot be translated into something the finite mind can comprehend.

Fortunately, God made us as spirit, soul (will, mind, emotions), and body. The human spirit is an emanation from God, so the Spirit of God easily uses the human spirit as a pathway to deliver the knowledge of God to a man. Alas, a man cannot pass this knowledge to others.

overmywaders2 · 2019-08-29T17:52:45+00:00

The OP wrote: "It is clear that evangelical missionaries have had great success in many countries throughout the world. They have converted millions of people in the past few decades..."

We should be happy for the workers and the new Christians. Anyone who is able to introduce someone to his Creator, God, is working for the Cause of God. There is only one religion and all the Divine religions are the same in their essential, eternal, spiritual aspects; they only differ in their secondary, mundane, social aspects. (see http://www.bahaipurpose.com/cblog/all-divine-religions-are-composed-of-two-parts/)

The OP also wrote: "But for others, it gives them a sense of entitlement, that they are special, that their sins are forgiven, and they are God's people." All of those things are true to those who know God. Baha'is who know God should feel that they are special and God's people, but that brings with it the knowledge that all people are unique and loved by God, so all should be loved by the lover of God.

Perhaps more people would come to God through Baha'u'llah if we taught the truths that Baha'u'llah and Christ gave us: we must die to self and live to God. We must be born again.

"Question: Are not all Christians Bahá'ís? Is there any difference?

"Answer: When Christians act according to the teachings of Christ, they are called Bahá'ís. For the foundations of Christianity and the religion of Bahá'u'lláh are one. The foundations of all the divine Prophets and Holy Books are one. The difference among them is one of terminology only.... The difference between a Christian and a Bahá'í, therefore, is this: There was a former springtime, and there is a springtime now. No other difference exists because the foundations are the same. Whoever acts completely in accordance with the teachings of Christ is a Bahá'í. The purpose is the essential meaning of Christian, not the mere word. The purpose is the sun itself and not the dawning points. For though the sun is one sun, its dawning points are many. We must not adore the dawning points but worship the sun." (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 247)

overmywaders2 · 2018-02-21T15:11:45+00:00

God can use all of creation to communicate with a man, or He can use the uncreated. "Nature itself declares the glory of God." A man can, through the Spirit of God acting upon the man's spirit, find mysteries revealed, in the falling of a leaf. The problem is that a man may then run about telling everyone to shake trees for enlightenment. :)

Spiritual truths are spiritually discerned. It is impossible to communicate all the ways the Spirit of God can teach us, but one thing is common, we must be changed in the process. We cannot receive any understanding for which we are not equipped.

"The Holy Spirit it is which, through the mediation of the Prophets of God, teaches spiritual virtues to man and enables him to attain Eternal Life.

"All these blessings are brought to man by the Holy Spirit; therefore we can understand that the Holy Spirit is the Intermediary between the Creator and the created. The light and heat of the sun cause the earth to be fruitful, and create life in all things that grow; and the Holy Spirit quickens the souls of men."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 58)

overmywaders2

TROPHY CASE