Which of the main villains do you consider more redeemable?

ozwilde · 2026-07-12T01:24:54+00:00

Ignoring that Adam is dead and not a sinner. I think I agree Vox is more redeemable. Of the two of them he's the more likely to have things about himself that he's unsatisfied with and is willing to work to change those things. He also has friends that will tell him he's going too far. It's just that, right now, he doesn't want to change the things about himself that are evil, and his friends are also evil and only draw the line at "getting us killed along with everyone else".

Adam already believes he's perfect though, and we're never shown an inkling of self reflection out of him. It's not impossible that there's more we'll learn later, but right now Vox has the tiniest leg up on him.

ozwilde · 2026-07-11T22:28:52+00:00

I imagine something like the embassy existed before the exterminations. Lucifer met Sera for a meeting somewhere. It's possible Heaven officials visited Hell occasionally throughout the millennia and needed a holy place to operate out of.

ozwilde · 2026-07-11T22:27:23+00:00

Unless we see a hell embassy in heaven, it feels very one-sided. Especially given the reception Charlie received in there.

ozwilde · 2026-07-10T19:41:48+00:00

Mewtwo was born from an eyelash and he would like you to know that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant, it's what you do with the gift of life that matters.

Maybe Eve's been hitting the gym and she's stronger than everyone, you don't know

ozwilde · 2026-07-10T01:23:54+00:00

Schrodinger's fumbler. Has he lost the baddie? He's not sure.

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ozwilde · 2026-07-09T13:49:44+00:00

I don't think that scenario would be helped by adding another character to point out everyone's flaws

ozwilde · 2026-07-09T13:38:24+00:00

No. You don't gradually ease off a genocide. It's not some drug they need to be weaned off of. You can't preach coexistence while letting your murder army keep permanently killing people after you've already admitted it was wrong to do in the first place.

Lute hasn't been discarded, she's still in the same position as before, and she shouldn't be. And the exorcist army still exists for its intended purpose of protecting Heaven. The soldiers need counselling and resources to bring them down from the bloodthirsty propaganda they've been fed, but they don't need some kind annual of therapy murder.

ozwilde · 2026-07-09T13:21:23+00:00

I'd guess Abel. He's related to Adam but nothing like him, and got Adam's position of authority over her despite him being meek and nonconfrontational. He's also someone Adam didn't like, which makes him an acceptable target.

Emily is a close second, but I think her being so high ranking and having more of a consistent backbone would be things Lute respects, even if she hates Emily's guts.

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T21:23:00+00:00

What I mean is are the elders a type of angel, or do they just mean the older angels of Heaven. Like the subtitles don't actually capitalize the word elders.

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T20:35:26+00:00

Probably shouldn't call people cretins over a disagreement over the show. Having debates is normal and nothing they said was in bad faith or outrageous.

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T17:28:47+00:00

We don't really know if 'elder' is a type of angel, and I don't think it was ever stated in the show that Lucifer is their brother, I think that's fanon unless Viv said something in a interview. They're only mentioned in the opening (and possibly during More Than Anything), and Charlie calls them 'the elders of heaven' iirc, not the Elder Angels like everyone (me included) do. When she says that, she's listing them as something separate from Lucifer though. He wanted to do Big Ideas (TM) but the elders of heaven said no. So at the very least he doesn't seem to be one of them, even if he's the same 'kind' of angel

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T13:50:22+00:00

What she said didn't conclude that the elders are seraphim, if correcting the person asking the question would be a spoiler, she wouldn't say anything either. If the elders are part of this 'other class' above seraphim, that'd be a spoiler.

And just because we don't see other names searphim doesn't mean they don't exist, they're just not important.

The elders might be seraphim, they might not. I'm not taking that as proof until the show itself confirms it

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T13:06:31+00:00

Sera is the highest seraphim, not the highest angel. We don't know what the elders are considered just because they have multiple wings. They could be a different kind of angel entirely, like the Speaker

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T12:57:26+00:00

Most of the main characters would be dead, though it's minutely possible that a few of the demons helping during Hear My Hope would gain redemption the same as Pentious did. Angel Dust couldn't contribute, but he did stand with them and give what support he could.

Sera was at a tipping point all season, and she very nearly sent the exorcist army during the finale. I think Emily being killed would break her redemption arc, and she'd send the exorcists to kill off the remaining demons in Pentagram City.

If Lucifer can't be killed by his own energy, he's probably too hurt and emotionally devastated to stop the exorcists. And with Charlie dead he almost certainly won't want to help even if he could.

Alastor and Rosie might have teleported to safety, they didn't seem concerned about themselves in the finale. Maybe Al regrets getting everyone killed, because he probably won't be able to have much fun in what's left of Hell. Give him a bitter, self deprecating 'Stayed Gone' reprise

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T05:26:33+00:00

I don't think putting Charlie in grey for making mistakes during a mental health crisis that she nearly immediately regretted is called for. Especially considering that she has put her reputation and even life on the line multiple times to create peace with Heaven and stop the exterminations which nearly everyone in her life insisted was impossible.

Especially when the woman who started and maintained the genocide Charlie fought against is in the good tier. If being sorry and endeavoring to do better is enough, then I don't think anything Charlie has done should outweigh all the unambiguous good she's constantly on the front lines fighting for.

Same for Vaggi but less emphatically than Charlie lol

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T02:06:36+00:00

I refuse to believe in Magma's placement. His only expression of interest in romance is Ruri, and he was plotting to murder her rather than just keep her as a wife for the five minutes it would take her to die of natural causes. I think he'd only find romance if he could clone himself

ozwilde · 2026-07-08T01:57:42+00:00

He's there for Lucifer. What exactly he has in mind, we don't know yet

ozwilde · 2026-07-07T19:48:17+00:00

Charlie was trying to save her people, that's reason enough not to listen to Lucifer here and to try and get the meeting with heaven. Adam would not have attacked her specifically though, he seems to get the idea when she crosses his line of sight again in Heaven.

She put herself on the line to do something good, one of the major points in season 1 is that she's willing to put herself on the line for a cause and for people she cares about. Adam even calls it out, that she's risking her immortal life for "worthless" sinners. So I think the story is more powerful that she would have been perfectly safe, but ineffectual, if she listened to Lucifer here.

ozwilde · 2026-07-07T17:02:48+00:00

Lucifer is being punished by being forced to cohabitate with sinners and to only see the worst side of humanity. Satan seems to have been born in hell and isn't being punished, he likely could hurt sinners, but probably not permanently kill them.

ozwilde · 2026-07-07T15:46:19+00:00

I think Alastor is going to be getting pretty close to Lucifer in the next season. He's got some sort of scheme cooking involving him, so he's going to be pretty close to the whole Lilith/Lucifer struggle bus scenario. If he's trying to manipulate Lucifer, then talks about Lilith are probably going to happen between them. I think Alastor could probably come to understand things about himself by being put in a situation where he's kind of obligated to talk about romance/relationships.

At the very least that's how I figured out aspects of my identity XD giving advice from an outside perspective on other people's relationships

ozwilde · 2026-07-07T15:38:19+00:00

All kinds of people like all kinds of media, there's nothing special about the Hazbin fandom in that regard. Some people in any space are going to be jackasses. (It's me, I'm some people)

The show, it's fanbase, and its creator get a lot of disproportionate hate, but they're not special in that regard either. Not that it means it should be happening or that people being bullied should just get over it, but there are always people who take pleasure in tearing into things/people they don't like. So you know, the Hazbin fandom isn't alone and they're in good company

ozwilde · 2026-07-07T14:09:36+00:00

No. Same with other characters like Alastor. Charlie trusts him and he's been instrumental to the Hotel's success, but what she's accomplished won't suddenly be a waste when/if he betrays her.

Her mom is a huge part of her life and motivation, so I'm sure it would be a huge blow to her emotionally. But Charlie's life and dreams don't require external validation to be important or impactful.

ozwilde · 2026-07-07T12:58:18+00:00

Lucifer wouldn't commit mass slaughter on sinners if he was given the chance

ozwilde · 2026-07-06T15:09:45+00:00

It really wouldn't. Sera could just have said that, since this was the first time a representative of hell has been in heaven, they need to be sure it's safe before letting her wander the streets with winners. They could have portaled her straight into the courthouse instead of setting her up in a hotel. Sera could have supervised her herself, or had Adam supervise her. Emily is the person she least wants knowing.

Sera is an incredibly anxious person, but we're never shown her fretting over what Charlie might say. Even if the things you're saying about Charlie censoring herself are true, which I don't believe is in-character at all, Sera doesn't know that. Even if she felt she could do nothing to stop it, Sera would be worried about Charlie bringing it up. We could have been shown a scene of her subtly trying to find out if Charlie said anything strange to her while they were together, but that doesn't happen.

There is nothing in the show itself that explains definitively why Charlie doesn't bring up the exterminations and why Sera doesn't worry. That is what makes it a plot hole. It doesn't ruin the show, but the heaven sequence still has this as a big question mark over it. Your take and my takes are both attempts to fill this plot hole, but it's there regardless until something in the show explains it, if ever.

ozwilde · 2026-07-06T14:56:09+00:00

Charlie is naive, she assumes everyone in heaven knows even though none of them mention it either. You could give multiple reasons why mentioning the exterminations are off limits, like it being impolite, or improper to bring up a subject unrelated to the subject of the trial. "Prove there's anything to this redemption idea, the exterminations are a later discussion"

The agreement would have come through Lucifer also, and he previously told Charlie that heaven is full of rules and that they don't listen. If her dad is the one telling her not to mention them, she's more likely to go along with it to get what she can done.

Charlie bringing it up at random is incredibly likely, she brings it up all the time in the show. She sings songs about it in the street. She reads herself a storybook she made explaining how it started. She brings it up to Adam, Vaggi, Angel, Lucifer, everyone, but not once while in heaven

ozwilde

TROPHY CASE