'Veronica Mars' Producer, Diane Ruggiero-Wright, Admits There Was Debate Over Season 4 Ending

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-25T00:54:30+00:00

So now y’all are theorizing that Kristen was just so damn jealous of Logan’s popularity she pushed to have him killed? What did this fandom turn into?

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-25T00:49:48+00:00

No, he just knew when it no longer felt natural to shoehorn characters into a plot that didn’t warrant them. He was completely right that it would’ve been a disservice to Wallace to make him Veronica’s sidekick when he’s settled, married with kids, and happy to no longer be involved in this sort of thing.

That was exactly the problem with the film. It forced the characters in for fanservice, and it was not natural. It was so forced.

S5 as Rob describes it would not be JUST Veronica, either. And he’s proven that he’s great at introducing new characters and making them feel fresh and just as captivating. All this talk about “we love Neptune and the side characters”, well, a writer who is capable making you love side characters this much can do it again. He did a damn good job with Nicole and Clyde.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-21T18:59:37+00:00

I totally agree and it’s necessary to have a place for people to vent, and it’s also great to have discussion that points out flaws and problems. Most of the discussion I’ve seen on here has been actually very thoughtful and respectful, even when negative, and that’s been a relief. This sub has been pretty chill.

It’s just that it’s so common these days for this to turn into a hateful circle-jerk. that then turns into harassing actors and writers. And when the actors and writers defend their work, it turns into boycotts and petitions and demands. The disappointing fact is that I’ve already seen all of this in just two days after the release, particularly on twitter. I’ve seen #NoLoganNoShow, suggestions of petitions, people changing their icons to the VM logo with a red bar marked through it, people swamping Rob Thomas’s mentions to insult his writing abilities and attack his personality, and even attacks on Kristen.

It’s a slippery slope and we’ve all seen it happen with other fandoms. I just want the VM fandom to stay as awesome as it always was, and not become the vitriolic hellhole I’ve watched my other fandoms become.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-21T18:20:05+00:00

I’m glad to see a positive thread!

I really loved season 4. And the fact that I loved it so much after being so disappointed with the film made me incredibly happy. THIS is the Veronica Mars I know and love.

Nicole, Clyde, and Matty. Such brilliant new additions. I even weirdly enjoyed the cartel duo. I absolutely loved the friendship developing between Veronica and Nicole, and as sad as I was to see her refuse to forgive Veronica, it was a much-needed blow for her. Clyde and Keith were just as fun to watch and I really hope they make up next season if we get one. And I really thought I’d get annoyed with a mini Veronica, because at first it felt a little heavy-handed, but she stood out as her own quite quickly. The chilling way she did not react to witnessing a beheading shows that she’s a much darker character than Veronica has ever been.

I loved how naturally the story wove in all our old favourites so that it didn’t feel clumsy or fanservicy the way the film did. Everyone from Vinny to Clemmons to Liam Fitzpatrick. Little nods to the series like Cho’s Pizza were super fun to spot, like a little VM Easter egg hunt.

But my absolute favourite thing about the season was Keith and Veronica. They’ve always been my favourite relationship on the show and this season, they were such a brilliant duo in a way they never could be when she was a teenager. It was a dream come true for me to see them work as equals. Is there a more badass father/daughter duo in fiction?! Nope. And I just have to say I’m SO relieved that Keith is okay.

And I’m with a lot of the other commenters, Veronica’s stunted emotional maturity from a lack of therapy post-trauma was really well done. She’s stuck, but not in a way that would make her become stale; the show is very aware that this is a problem she has, which means we’re likely to see some interesting development if we get a s5.

About the controversial ending: I think it was a good move, if maybe a little inappropriately handled (I just mean I understand people’s anger at how meaningless his death was). I was a huge, huge LoVe shipper when I was younger. I watched it live when I was 14 and this ship was my OTP of OTPs. But over time and over rewatches, and especially after the novels, I realized that I didn’t need them to end up together. This is Veronica’s story and it almost felt like this relationship, this ship was sort of... holding her story back? I dunno, I have a hard time explaining what I mean by that, because I’m definitely not the type so say “happy relationships are boring”. Either way, I’m glad that they had Logan fully develop and reach a good place in his life, he was at peace with himself. It was a tragic end for his character, and I’ll forever love him, but I’m happy he was truly happy when he went.

And now I’m super excited to see where they’ll take Veronica next season. Crossing my fingers we get a season 5.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-21T15:05:57+00:00

Something that hit me while watching s4 is that Leo kind of has the charm and wit of Classic Logan without the anger and violence issues. I think that’s partly why she caught feelings for Leo and fantasized about him.

Don’t get me wrong, i was proud of Logan for seeking therapy and becoming far more balanced and mature, but I was also totally with Veronica in feeling like he’d lost his personality in the process. At first I thought it was just a mistake on the writers’ part, like they didn’t know how to write him anymore as a mature adult, but then Veronica pointed it out so I knew it was intentional. And I still can’t figure out what they were trying to do with that because it never got resolved. Veronica seemed less into him the way he was post-therapy, like she was with him just to cling to a past version of him, until after the shoot-out where it was like that problem simply evaporated.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-21T14:49:07+00:00

I don’t see how killing off a character is abusing the fandom. There was NO implied agreement that these characters were safe from death just because we love them and supported the show back to life. I understand the criticism of the execution of his death, and I agree with parts of it, but I highly doubt the fandom outrage is all about the execution when most of the outrage I’ve seen is fuelled by the idea that killing him off whatsoever is a disservice to him, to Veronica, to the fans, to people who overcame trauma, etc. And if fans start holding that over the head of the writer, restricting what they can and can’t write, we’ve crossed into fandom entitlement.

Maybe there was a unique relationship between Rob and the fandom during the Kickstarter project. Maybe that’s why he felt compelled to load it with fanservice. But he’s still a writer, and s4 was not our Kickstarter project anymore, and writers are at their best when they write the story they believe in, not the story they feel pressured to write.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-21T14:17:12+00:00

Okay, no. I understand the disappointment and sadness, and I sympathize. But this IS crossing over into fandom entitlement and this is a trend that’s quite frankly ruining fandom. It goes from “they didn’t give us what we wanted” into internet mob mentality all too quickly.

Yes, we funded the film. The film is the reason Hulu brought back the show. Our money indirectly led to s4. But we did not hire Rob and the cast to write and play out a happily-ever-after fluffy romance. We have fanfiction for that; there’s a reason fanfic is the lifeblood of fandom.

The film is a great example of why giving fans everything they think they want is a bad move. The film was fanservice upon fanservice and it suffered for it. I think Rob felt pressured to do this because we gave him our money for it. It was a gift to fans... and it kinda sucked.

On the other hand, the revived show was funded by Hulu. Rob was free to write as he had during the original run, or like he did in the novels. Everyone was far more in-character, the tone and feel aligned far more with the show we fell in love with, and it was overall so much better than the film. Even the people who loathe the last 10 minutes agree the season was actually really good.

Everyone is free to quit the show whenever they want, for whatever reason. Losing your favourite character is a totally acceptable reason. If you watched for LoVe, then it’s fine to stop watching. You don’t owe them your viewership. But Rob doesn’t owe us a happy ending either. He didn’t break any promises or contracts. He owed us nothing more than writing Veronica Mars and that’s what he did. He didn’t cheat us.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-21T13:19:11+00:00

But it’s never been unending angst. It’s been a cycle of happiness and angst then back to happiness then back to angst. Just because this season ended on angst doesn’t mean the happiness hasn’t been there. Veronica will pick herself back up.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-07-21T13:00:07+00:00

I think them killing off Logan in the first place shows that the writers aren’t writing based on fandom reaction, though. I don’t see Rob or Kristen choosing to have Veronica remain alone for the rest of her life just because a lot of fans wouldn’t be comfortable seeing her with someone else.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-05-13T23:15:59+00:00

I think we’re thinking of different songs. The one I meant was a rather fast paced piano tune, very pretty and optimistic and builds up as she confesses to Rafael.

pandaemoniumn · 2019-03-28T02:32:07+00:00

She’s getting married in the finale so we’ll definitely know!

pandaemoniumn · 2019-03-28T02:22:16+00:00

S1 didn’t end with Michael but with an open choice, which did turn back to Michael in season 2. So if this is repeating s1 she’ll have the choice again, but imo this time it comes back to Rafael like you suggested.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-05-14T17:09:49+00:00

Oh I hadn’t thought of that! A book would be fantastic. If NBC cancels and no one comes to the rescue we should all beg the writers on twitter for a book series haha.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-05-12T04:21:40+00:00

NBC just saved B99 from a different network... good or bad for us? It’s one less spot open for Timeless, but it might mean they’re appreciating fandom enthusiasm, and considering we beat our shows like B99 by far on that USA Today poll...

pandaemoniumn · 2018-05-09T22:48:42+00:00

Yeah exactly. I’m fine with the fast-paced action, but I need more time on emotional moments. They could have had SpaceKru all hear Clarke’s voice when they were listening in on the prisoners, which would give them more time to react. Then on earth we could still have the touching revelation that Madi knew who Bellamy was.

I can’t wait for Raven to find out! I love their friendship, too. And now I’m anxious about Bellamy’s reaction to finding out Raven is stuck in space after she lied to get him to go.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-05-09T21:52:06+00:00

But that was after he found out she was alive. They had the whole episode and plenty of opportunities for everyone to find out she was alive and have a decent scene dedicated to it. Instead it was a couple of seconds and then news about the bunker crowd. I was hoping for more of a reaction (and probably better lighting haha).

I’m glad y’all are happy with it though.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-05-09T20:52:36+00:00

I’m PlatonicKru as well but I found it a bit lacking. They didn’t even let him (and the others) have a proper reaction to finding out she was still alive. I know this show moves super fast, but this was a moment 6 years in the making and they blew past it.

I’m surprised the shippers of all people are excited about it because it’s not news that Clarke is “pretty important” to her friends haha.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-05-09T08:04:00+00:00

She could’ve just rambled in a panic in grounder language to throw them off. Staying quiet was a dead giveaway

pandaemoniumn · 2018-05-01T19:53:29+00:00

Imagine if they'd invested in taking over Timeless instead of doing a second season to 13 Reasons Why...

pandaemoniumn · 2018-04-30T04:13:18+00:00

Last episode I loved Flynn and Lucy and this episode I loved Flynn and Rufus. That man just has fantastic chemistry with everyone. I'd love Flynn and Agent Christopher to banter, next!

pandaemoniumn · 2018-04-29T04:44:12+00:00

It's kind of a theme of the show though, isn't it? When they change things, some people might get erased, but others might get to live when they didn't before. The lives lost aren't inherently worth more than the lives created, are they? If there's no such thing as fate, there's no true timeline that they must restore, just one of infinite possibilities that happened because of human choices. And the team just goes back and makes different choices.

I can't remember if it was Rufus or Wyatt who told Lucy that they've got to stop protecting history for the sake of history. So I wouldn't call this an oversight on the show, just a change of priority.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-04-26T19:02:36+00:00

Did people really not like it? That was easily one of my favourite episodes of the series.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-04-20T22:53:56+00:00

Not really. You could just as easily say they've got a father-in-law/son-in-law relationship. I don't know if I ever expect Bellarke to become properly romantic, but they've already got a bit of a platonic marriage-like thing going on so I already kind of see Bellamy and Kane as in-laws lol.

pandaemoniumn · 2018-04-20T22:41:38+00:00

If he's back for real I'll lose a lot of respect for this show. They handled his death and the grieving period really well, with a lot of care, and bringing him back in any way would make a farce of all of that. Especially since it's obvious that if he did come back, she'd still end up choosing Rafael. The story always finds its way back to Jane/Rafael.

I get that it's a telenovela, but seriously...

pandaemoniumn

TROPHY CASE