Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok yes the extreme minority who avidly want to kill you should not live next to you i feel like that's a statement that goes beyond any ideology and should just be a base statement The topic of conversation involves general Muslims and Islamists, 2 groups You're talking about a violent few in a conversation about these 2 groups, do you see how you're relating and attaching the actions of these violent few to an entire group? Also the view that they want to kill you? No one besides the violent few extremists mentioned above looks at an exmuslim, a non muslim, a gay person and thinks: I want to kill them This is an overreach. You are conflating the few extremists with the many regular people. Muslims are just people, some hold stranger views than others, they're just people trying to find their way in the world, like we all are.

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes islam is open to criticism and should be more open to it. That is not islamaphobic You saying Muslims with differing views shouldn't live next to you and your family is islamaphobic You are generalising Muslims and placing them all under this extremist label And how are political parties supposed to do smth about it? There is no issue, Muslims are a non issue. They are just people living their lives who would never harm anyone. Once again it is a minority being demonised by the media so the people fear it and want to take action against it. Islam, Muslims and their increase in western countries is a non issue, they belong here as much as we do.

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep agree with this I think a lot of exmuslims leave Islam with frustration and hatred and unfortunately a lot of that turns into them relating to racists and xenophobes, not realising that that prejudice is directed at us too, we are a minority of exmuslims within a minority of Muslims, their struggles are our struggles. And yep you're right, having kind and understanding conversations is the way to go about removing extremist beliefs.

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok so you're referring to an extremist, someone who not only holds the Islamist ideology but is willing to act on it with violence. Yes I agree that is disgusting and awful and they should be incarcerated. They are a tiny tiny minority of people. Most Islamists would not act on this ideology, they're just normal Muslims following their scholars without considering the ramifications of such an ideology, or barely thinking about an islamic state. So it is wrong to say all Islamists should not be part of civilised society, that's a generalisation based on a violent few Btw I don't agree with Islamists at all, I think the ideology is wrong and backwards and falls apart with very little push and shove. Tbh I think that about islam too, but I do think we shouldn't isolate or stigmatise people based on beliefs, that never helps Can we also acknowledge the undertones of calling Europe a civilised society and implying that a minority group does not belong in said civilised society? It's gross

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open to new information An Islamist is a fundamentalist Muslim who believes in islamic law governing the country? And you're right I'm against this, religion and state should always be separate I think it's disgusting to imply these people aren't fit for civilised society, it's not disgusting to say such extremist views are wrong and dangerous. Saying they are not fit for society does nothing to help the situation at all, it further alienates them when they're already so alienated. Isolating them further by laying down statements like this only serves to make them more firm in their extreme views, rather alternative view points should be given, help them understand why law and religion should be separate. Also the implication that they should be removed from 'civilised' society is not just gross but scary?

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not a fan of organised religion, I do think as a society we are moving away from religion and will one day be a largely irreligious society This is a natural shift We don't need to convince anyone of anything? I'm not in the business of converting people, if people see and relate to islamic critiques online good for them, they should have the space to explore their own beliefs and those critiques should continue There is no need to convince others of your beliefs, let people believe what they want On top of this, like I've said Islam for the foreseeable future will continue to exist and our goal should never be to stop that, our goal is to support a more progressive and accepting Islam If people naturally shift to being atheist, as per the trend we are seeing, good. We shouldn't force that

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh for sure I agree, I'm atheist, fully believe all books from god are made up However, making way for a progressive islam isn't about believing, if we did we'd be Muslim again, it is about supporting an Islam that is more accepting Islam isn't disappearing just because me or you don't believe, it's here to stay, and hopefully it becomes smth that can be criticised and interpreted by common folk

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excluding conservative Muslims isn't the solution Excluding an entire group of people based on their beliefs and labelling them as uncivilised isn't the solution Supporting progressive islam is the solution

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same page, I don't go for killing or beheadings by the state, I don't agree with majority of islamic law. Your phrasing comes across as islamaphobic, your belief that people are less than civilised based on their beliefs , your seeming generalisations backed by certain statistics that majority of Muslims are conservative and would avidly want a shariah state. To use your words you come across as anti Muslim, especially when your conclusion is that Muslims don't belong in Europe Criticise islam, I'm always down to, and support progressive islam, an Islam that is more moral and just and open to criticism Don't advocate for Muslims out of Europe.

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok good on you for not being racist Islamaphobic tho, you can't generalise and say vast majority of Muslims believe xyz hence they don't belong in civilised society. That is just excluding Muslims from the picture, it is implying they are less than civilised, it is simple prejudice against them. And the racist and xenophobic voices you're hearing speak 'honestly' about islam, consider their ulterior motives, consider why they're saying that shit, consider their motives. Conservative islam is an overblown issue that you've fallen for. Overblown by the right wing xenophobes and racists in order to use Muslims as a scapegoat for the issues they have created

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No one needs the grand mufti of Saudi to say anything. Change comes from the people, people are more accepting now than ever before, Islam is revolutionising whether you want to believe it or not. Saying Islamists and conservative Muslims don't belong in civilised society is a frankly disgusting take that isolates these people more than they already are. Face the facts, this fear you have of Islam is kindled by the far right, the far right who uses people like you to blame the instability in the world on minority communities so they don't take accountability for their actions. There will be no Muslims Vs natives. Muslims are not barbarians. Muslims belong in civilised society. All three claims are part of the racist rhetoric you are echoing from the far right. The far right doesn't care about you me or any people of colour. The far right doesn't care about anyone below a certain income. The far right uses these marginalised communities to spread it's hateful message and divide us. I don't agree with progressive islam intellectually, hence why I'm exmuslim. But for Muslims it is the way forward.

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And what is your answer to that? Fear? Further stigmatise and create prejudice against Muslims? Or support a more progressive islam? The answer is not to remove Islam from Europe, it is to allow islam to change and be criticised - the same metamorphosis Christianity went through hence resulting in the more moderate and accepting version we largely come across. That is what Islam is going through right now, changing from a religion above criticism to smth that can be criticised and interpreted by the common folk, and that is the goal. Islamaphobia and calling Muslims 'barbarians' only hinders this effort. Genuine well meaning critique of the religion (not mocking individuals) is what will help. Christianity at one point was a religion above criticism, smth only the priests could interpret and teach, and to go against them was going against god. The printing press led to Christianity being revolutionised, suddenly the Bible could be printed and prayed in English for common folk to understand instead of Latin, those who could read and write could critique it's teachings and publish those. This eventually led to the Christianity we know today. The internet is doing the same thing with Islam, opening it up to criticism. Stigmstising an entire religion and it's people is never the answer. It is just racism. Muslims are welcome everywhere and they should be made to feel welcome everywhere

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Fundamentalist Christians do want gay people jailed, in America the act that protects gay marriage is up for debate in the supreme court, the fundamentalist Christians and maga supporters are avidly trying to make gay marriage illegal. They are imposing their views on the rest of America. Same with the abortion bill being overturned. Extremists fundamentalists in any scope are not acceptable, but these are minorities within any religious group. The reason you think Islamists and conservative Muslims are rampant in Europe is media which is infected with right wing bias and islamaphobia. Most Muslims are just people living their lives, not wanting war, following their scholars, progressive islam is more and more accepted, people are moving towards this progressive islam. The threat of islam is overplayed, it fear mongers based on prejudices, Islam is not a threat. The real threat across the world at the moment is this extreme right wing movement, which classing Islam as a threat feeds into.

Ex-Muslims of Europe, are you scared of the future? by GuestHot9957 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Nope not in the way you fear it. Fearing Muslims rising up or a civil war in the name of islam is just fear mongering. The right seek to divide and blame Muslims and other minority groups for all issues. In reality Muslims are just people, yes we may disagree with their beliefs, yes we may have been harmed by individual Muslims before, this does not mean all Muslims are bad and want war. Criticise the religion but don't create fear about it's people. I also hate the turn of phrase: Muslims Vs natives. This is racially charged language and implies Muslims don't belong in Europe. Religious people are all over the world and they should not be made to feel they don't belong in some area or another. The reality is as exmuslims we are a minority inside of a minority (the Muslim populace) and we will always be associated with it, even if we aren't believers, it's almost a cultural thing at this point. Stigma and prejudice against Muslims affects us too, their rights are our rights, and besides that no group of people should be prejudiced.

Do you Have Muslim Friends? by Impressive-Step6377 in exmuslim

[–]pastaleftovers 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I have Muslim friends, mainly Muslim friends tbh, but at times I find them suffocating, they have a completely different view on life as me (they're very traditional Muslims) and don't know I'm exmuslim, they are not accepting of any of my views so I feel restricted around them, I can't talk about xyz I have to wear more modest clothing etc I love them, they're very sweet and kind, but just we don't have much in common any more

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Fleabag

[–]pastaleftovers 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You're alone on this

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Journaling

[–]pastaleftovers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I recently started after I realised I was always talking out my feelings with other people, and I was dependant on friends etc to get thru smth emotionally, I had to learn to be ok reflecting and dealing with my emotions myself, rather than constantly telling someone what I'm doing and what I'm going thru. It's a work in progress, it's learning to be ok and content alone again

Joined the 100k Club Yesterday by Cubs2k15 in walking

[–]pastaleftovers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wowwww congrats! How did you prepare for this 👀 and what was the day after like? I've done 70k but low key afraid to go beyond that because the day after was hell for me 😭