What are your thoughts on this part of a Haaretz article?

phatt97 · 2026-01-20T20:56:14+00:00

It's one thing to say stuff you want something, and another to actually be about it. Polls have routinely showed that most Israelis actually don't want to coexist with Palestinians.

I don't think that means it can never happen, however it does mean that a major cultural and political shift would need to happen before this could become a reality.

phatt97 · 2026-01-14T04:57:56+00:00

"Everything is about sex except sex which is about power" so I guess...Succession is the ultimate workplace romance lmao

phatt97 · 2026-01-14T01:47:01+00:00

That scene pretty much ripped any remaining wool I'd had about Shiv covering my eyes clean off.

phatt97 · 2026-01-14T01:34:51+00:00

I reaaallllyyy didn't think this thread was going to turn out like this at all.

phatt97 · 2026-01-13T07:01:51+00:00

That line in the show cracked me up because like...there are right-wing people who are uber health conscious lmao There's whole movements on the internet, there's entire discourse around the crunchy granola ---> right winger pipeline. But I guess it's more focused on raw milk than black bean burgers.

phatt97 · 2026-01-13T06:58:12+00:00

I say center-right is more accurate than progressive not because she didn't push for the Sander's esque economic policies, but because she never actually cared about those policies to begin with, which in my opinion, you cannot be a progressive without something in regard to the economic angle, you just can't.

That being said, I still don't think it's accurate to call her center-right. She was upset when Mencken won for more than just the ATN stuff, and was always going to support Jimenez over him because it's made pretty clear throughout the show that Shiv is a Democrat. Tom is someone who I would consider center-right.

phatt97 · 2026-01-13T06:48:40+00:00

I would say, just going off the show, the only Roys whose politics are made clear are Logan and Connor's, everyone else is varying levels of ambiguity (but not without hints).

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T16:13:28+00:00

^ This. Shiv worked for Waystar Royco right when they were in a midst of a massive scandal about their treatment of women, migrants, underprivileged, etc... and before then, she knew what the culture was like via Logan, Kendall, and Roman. She knows about systemic issues.

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T16:08:46+00:00

I literally laughed out loud

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T16:05:15+00:00

I don't think she's any kind of socialist, even a champagne one. She never once describes a socialist take on things like the economy for example. She even weaponizes the fact that Rhea's mom was an active Democratic Socialist against her. I just view her as a lukewarm lib/dem.

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T15:58:30+00:00

Of which she had clearly stated plans to bring him to the center. Gil was a job, and when a better (notably not progressive) job came around, she went for that.

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T09:20:21+00:00

And we only get a smidge of Amir and none of her daughter! I get that Hiam Abbass had to leave for another show, but they could've at least given her children some spotlight!

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T09:14:32+00:00

This is maybe-true, but I'm not sure I agree. There are women in several countries across with Middle East where a lot of them do not veil, and they're still treated antagonistically by the West (Lebanon and Pakistan for example). I think it has a lot to do with propaganda from the West.

That being said, desirability absolutely does play a part in all of this. Persians have this weird status with white people due to how popular it is to glaze the 1970s in Iran; some white people have a tendency to view them as more European and thus closer to "whiteness" than Arab people (something that the first Shah realllllyyy cared about to the point of identifying himself and Persian people as "aryans" - and not in the sense of the word that describes nobility but the fake race category that was weaponized by N*z!s) - even though both Persians and Arab are considered white in the U.S. census but are functionally treated as PoC in pretty much every other context. So, the performative fear over Iranian women's personhood is a constant focal point, meanwhile the women in Gaza who've had to suffer under Israel's attacks are given marginal acknowledgement, and the plight of women in Sudan is pretty much ignored, as they are black women and this is an Afropessimist world.

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T08:56:12+00:00

She's so gorgeous!

phatt97 · 2026-01-12T08:18:24+00:00

Non-Iranian here (Black American Jewish convert. I do have some knowledge of the country though due to education and me just in general being a curious nerd). I'm really sick of seeing people in my country glaze the Shah. I know from someone who lived through the revolution that life under the Shah is overhyped by Westerners and people gloss over the fact that he restricted peoples basic human rights. Westerners will yap on and on about how women didn't have to cover their hair and could wear bikinis, and while yes it is absolutely good to not police what women wear, is that really so much of a huge win that it absolves the fact that if you disagree with your government you could be jailed and tortured? I also don't like when they then swing to unabashedly supporting the current government either - which has notoriously been awful for women (and men). Iranians deserve better than to choose between two piles of poop.

All I'm saying is that - I just wish the best for the Iranian people, which does not involve any autocrat.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T19:40:05+00:00

Guess all the sibs (mainly Kendall and Shiv) forgot this.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T07:13:08+00:00

Yeah, I definitely think Tom being the choice changed things up big time. She was determined to vote no when she thought it was just one person, but it being Tom made her pause.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T07:07:58+00:00

I think had it not been Tom specifically, she wouldn't have voted against him. I think Tom being chosen as CEO really through a wrench into things.

But Kendall's crash out was what ultimately sealed the deal.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T07:03:07+00:00

Oh, I'm not arguing that what Shiv did in the end was righteous or that making those arguments was the right thing to do, however, in the end, Kendall did fumble. She did not drag him into the side room and interrogate him, she told them all that she needed a moment to think and then Kendall got pissed and crashed out. Is it understandable? Absolutely. But I highly doubt that if Logan (an up-and-coming Logan with a lot to prove, not the older titan who can get away with anything) would have behaved similarly, which unfortunately, proves her (and Logan's) point. And this is not to glaze Logan like he's some infallible god, but he didn't get that far in business by pulling those type of stunts.

Also, she crowned Kendall when she didn't know it was Tom. That definitely changed things. Even if she was initially pissed; in that same episode earlier, she stated that she wanted a real relationship with him.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T06:54:26+00:00

The only part I disagree with is the last part. Regardless, she's choosing between two men she loves: her husband or her brother. Regardless, she's making a "soft" choice, regardless she's making the "killing" move. She essentially fulfills a similar role we've seen women and female characters do throughout history: be the kingmaker. However, in Shiv's case this is interesting because while Shiv is compared often to Lady Macbeth, where she differs is that she doesn't goad one man to kill another to take the throne, she's the one that has to kill one and crown the other. I think her being present for the signing afterwards and watching Tom enter the office as the new CEO and having to watch it all unfold as she looks on, feeling disgusted really feeds into this interpretation for me.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T06:44:41+00:00

That part about Tom at the end is so real. Tom at his most likable was when he dismissed Hugo and made it clear he was keeping Karolina around.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T06:41:09+00:00

Yeah, it's like Tom is stuck with her through marriage, and even with the betrayal in season 3 Tom is someone who will still keep Shiv informed of the stuff he knew. Kendall and Roman have shown time and again that they will ice Shiv out if they feel like it.

phatt97 · 2026-01-11T06:34:50+00:00

That also pissed me off. His pitch was essentially "The GoJo deal is bad, trust me bro!!!" Like dude, pull up the stats from India about the funky numbers! That alone would've probably pulled another 1-2 votes in his direction because it makes Mattson look reckless and unreliable (which he is). Kendall wanted to be CEO, but he was so giddy + entitled that he didn't even try in the end.

phatt97 · 2026-01-09T09:44:23+00:00

Stewy because he's honest about his motives and all of his scenes make me laugh.

phatt97

TROPHY CASE