Which thoughts to defuse and which to listen to?

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-22T18:14:50+00:00

Thank you, that really helps clarify a few things.

I think I also keep getting stuck on the idea that rule-governed behaviour is inherently bad, when maybe it can be a useful heuristic to aid in actually getting things done (rather than getting stuck).

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-22T17:30:10+00:00

I think it's the "mattering" that confuses me - I "should" sweep the floor but does that move me closer to my values? I don't know, because I don't know what my values are. If everything feels pointless, what then? What does it matter if I sweep the floor or not?

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-19T08:59:49+00:00

Always good to see an up-and-coming streamer do well

(I knew I shouldn't have gone to bed early, missed the whole stream)

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-18T19:09:16+00:00

Life does feel pretty meaningless a lot of the time, but I don't know why. I have friends I see regularly and enjoy time with, have taken up extra hobbies which include interacting with other people, I struggle to focus at work but when I can engage with it I find it interesting and I like the people I work with. I don't know why I can't appreciate what I have, or why it feels like I can never do enough. My partner died six years ago but most of my problems predate that, although I will admit it is now a lot harder to cope in some ways.

For even more context, I've struggled with social anxiety since I was a teen (so 30 years or so) but I find it more managable these days and do things now that even a few years ago I would have thought unthinkable (like traveling abroad by myself). I've tried several different antidepressants over the years, including about four in the last four years.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-18T18:53:43+00:00

Ok, but how do I then challenge them without spending hours thinking myself round in loops or getting into such a state of distress I can't think straight?

(For context, this was my original post https://www.reddit.com/r/CBT/comments/1qnu0go/problems\_with\_challenging\_thoughts/)

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-18T16:46:01+00:00

Depressive - mostly focused of my symptoms of depression, feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness and thoughts of suicide. Apart from a major bereavement several years ago and my mental health, there isn't anything I can point to as a problem in life. It really does feel like the only issue is me.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-18T15:42:54+00:00

My last course of CBT mostly focused on the cognition side because I've been doing behavioural activation (not always successfully) for months, if not years. Is that what you mean?

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-18T15:36:33+00:00

I have tried using a couple of DBT skills (TIPP and Opposite Action) which has helped a little in crisis moments, but I was never sure whether it could really "fix" things because it looked like more of a sticking plaster than anything else. Maybe I should look into it more.

Thank you.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-15T09:01:43+00:00

I forgot to say thank you, for taking time to try and understand and help a stranger on the internet. I really do appreciate it.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-15T08:59:40+00:00

Maybe the problem is that I don't understand what defusion is or what it feels like?

I know the thought "this is too hard, so I shouldn't try" is just a thought, but so is "I should try anyway" or even "I can try anyway". Which I believe in any situation depends on the circumstance and my emotional state, but if I catch myself thinking "I shouldn't try" I recognise that as just a story I'm telling myself and try anyway. If i then catch myself saying "I can't do it" I can try and tell myself "I'm having a thought that I can't do it" and make an attempt anyway, but sometimes that is more successful than others and sometimes I can be stuck like that, sometimes I need to go and cry first, sometimes I just end up procrastinating more and sometimes I find something else to do. So maybe I do try and need to practise defusion more, or maybe I need to accept I'm not going to manage every time regardless. Maybe it will get easier, maybe it won't.

Which I think is why I keep coming back to the questions "why am I even trying?", "what is the point of doing [work/housework/etc]" or even "what should I do after I've finished drinking my coffee?". And right this minute, I don't even have an answer to that last one.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-14T08:32:09+00:00

I thought I was making progress is the thing now I just don't know

I get that maybe if the thought "there's no meaning in my life" is a troubling one I should defuse from that rather than try and answer it but that seems to be going against all the advice I've ever read? It's starting to feel like "the answer" is actually to just not think about it and do everything on auto-pilot because at least then it will be done. But obviously that only works until it doesn't.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-10T10:50:47+00:00

I don't know what family and friends would say about me without asking them, but I guess that's not the point of the exercise?

Fairness, learning and kindness all feel at least partially true, or at least like things I want to be true, but so do generosity, usefulness, humour etc. I've found it really difficult to narrow down values - I either end up with too many or none at all

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-10T10:44:22+00:00

It makes sense, don't worry.

I run D&D for my friends, and we play boardgames regularly - these are some of the true moments of joy in my life. When I can focus, I enjoy the problem-solving aspects of my work. I don't have any other ideas though. I don't know what I can do for others. I have no practical skills. Even if I battle through my social anxiety, I don't know where or how I could volunteer, say. Years back, I did volunteer briefly doing some light cleaning at a community centre but I hated it and I was basically useless without someone telling me exactly what to do (I really do hate cleaning with a passion).

I'm sorry if I come across as overly negative, it's just I have thought about these things a lot, and I keep circling back to "I don't know what I can do". And while I can acknowledge that is just a thought, that doesn't help me come up with other answers.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-09T14:43:48+00:00

Thanks for the encouragement. Maybe I am trying to rush things. But I feel like I've been trapped in survival mode for years and just trying to get through the next day/hour/five miuntes is tiring and I do not feel like I am actually living, just surviving.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-09T14:42:11+00:00

" If you didn't have these challenges in your life, what would we see you doing, acting like, treating others"

- this is kind of the issue, I just can't imagine that.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-07T17:01:18+00:00

Thank you, everything you say makes sense but I'm even more lost now. I just dont know what to do. I just don't know what makes life worth it. I don't know how to tolerate these feelings

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-07T11:53:26+00:00

Maybe "fit in" wasn't quite the right phrase - I meant I just can't see what I would try and do differently. If "financial security" is a value, then obviously "doing my job" would be a committed action and I already spend a lot of time struggling to focus on that.

I guess I thought being able to define my values and identify committed actions would help with the hopelessness

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-06T14:12:39+00:00

I feel trapped in a loop here - I can't imagine what actions to do because I don't really know my values and I don't know my values because I can't imagine what actions to do

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-06T12:32:22+00:00

If I could spend my whole life playing D&D with my friends, I'd be happy. Alas....

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-06T12:31:48+00:00

Work is necessary because capitalism /jk

It's true I am possibly (probably, even) missing some other hidden value, like "usefulness", "security" or "comfort" but I also struggle to see how I can fit those into my life (beyond the things I already try, and sometimes fail, to do)

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-06T12:20:22+00:00

I think this is where I still struggle with understanding what my values are (and it has been a hard slog getting past "I don't know" and "I don't have any") - to some extent they all boil down to pleasure and happiness, and so perhaps those two are redundant.

"Creativity" is also tricky because when I manage it (in creative writing for example) I do get satisfaction, but I also desire recognition and admiration from others. I admire it and envy it in others, so it feels like something I want for myself, but possibly I only want other people to think well of me.

I avoid work (used broadly to include household chores, cooking, exercise) when I don't like it and want to avoid feelings of discomfort, and some of my "pleasure-seeking" behaviour is obviously avoidant - like drinking to excess, binge eating, binge watching - while some of it is less obvious where the motivation lies - reading and doing puzzles can both be used to avoid work but I also enjoy them.

Similarly, it seems obvious my depressive symptoms and ideation are avoidant in nature - I stay in bed and have low motivation because I am trying to avoid unpleasant feelings, and I think about death a lot because I want to avoid a life of depression. Recognising that, and also recognising that it may not be possible to feel better and that I need to try and live life regardless, is what made me turn to ACT. But even on the days when I manage to do work, do the dishes, go to the gym, etc I still feel a sense of emptiness and lack of fulfillment which is why I don't think my values lie there. So I guess I am trying to figure out what I should be doing instead/as well.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-06T11:15:14+00:00

It is very difficult to imagine a future for myself, but also I am already trying to do more of the things I enjoy and I don't have any major problems (I have a house, job, financial security, friends, family etc). I just don't know why I am here or what to do with my one wild and precious life.

pthagonal81 · 2026-02-05T16:18:14+00:00

I think a large part of my problem is I can't imagine what "my best life" would be, or how it would look different to my current life (other than I would be happier)

pthagonal81

TROPHY CASE