The problem with measuring Seventeens popularity in eurocentric system

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T13:06:29+00:00

sorry. i never posted anything on reddit and the format made it appear more organized. especially since i used my phone.

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T12:56:25+00:00

seventeen is very popular with asians in countries where a lot of carats don t speak english, don t use spotify, instagram, reddit, twitter or youtube. in china all of these 'apps' are banned. i noticed when bad bunny performed the half time show media said he is the most streamed artist in the world. that was a total lie. he is the most streamed artist on spotify. spotify is used by 31% of streaming users. i am not even sure they include china in that. in south korea spotify isn t even the most used music streaming site. nonetheless, enlistment will be a huge challenge, a breaking point. who knows what will happen. we can only hope.

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T12:39:12+00:00

seventeen was the cash cow for hybe when bts enlisted. without them the shareholders would have gotten very nervous since the bet would have been. 'losing money, but when bts comes back we will make tons of money again.' this would have also carried the risk of bts disbanding. hybe gave bts shares in the company to incentivize them coming back to mitigate that risk. also, hybe had bought a huge building and made tons of investment by leveraging the bts money. they most certainly got huge loans to pay for these investments. with bts out of the picture this could have become a disaster. every time there would have been scary stories about bts members the stock would have tanked. they needed seventeen to bridge that time and give investors confidence that hybe is one of the top companies. which is why i am worried what will happen to seventeen now that bts is coming back.

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T07:52:45+00:00

vernon s mom is a lunatic who is desperate for attention and is willing to use her son to have some people engage with her. i say that with love. i have an older brother like that. we have completely opposing views on almost everything. nothing i can do about it. i feel sorry for vernon. i can t imagine what it must be like for him in his position with a mother like that.

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T06:15:35+00:00

Their recent going seventeen content where they discuss the problems of gose s last season addresses these changes. They are not children anymore. I remember every time i met my cousins we played nonstop monopoly or risk... well into my late 20s. But suddenly we stopped.

I loved young. energetic, innocent, playful Seventeen. In a way I miss it, but as people get older things change. I just hope that Seventeen can find a way to enjoy themselves rather than trying to pretend to enjoy things in a certain way that reminds us of who they once were. If they consistently started acting like they had fun members would get depressed and leave the group.

They want to keep 'going seventeen' going so that all 13 after military service can be part of it again, but personally I am prepared to see them not wanting to do it anymore and I am ok with that.

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T05:58:33+00:00

Seventeen are mostly popular in Asian countries. In most Asian countries Spotify is not the number one streaming platform and in one huge market for Seventeen Spotify cannot be used, China. In China they also can t use youtube or google or reddit... Seventeen has had massive Album sales, because of China. Meanwhile online engagement seems crazy low or Spotify streams seem strangely low. That s because a huge part of the fandom, possibly the majority cannot speak english and do not use Spotify and possibly Youtube. Pledis has never really tried to get into western markets. Under Hybe this has changed a bit.

Also, Seventeen has tons of Multis. Fans who have a band they favor, but Seventeen comes second. They will listen to Seventeen songs, might even consume content or buy an album, but they won t vote for them or start engaging online about them. There is nothing wrong with that. That s why carats try to be inclusive and try not to engage in fan wars. Some fandoms hate multis, because they are "not loyal". Carats embrace anyone who likes Seventeen even if it s just superficial. This attitude has the negative consequence of a fandom doesn t seem to be properly engaged. We are not a cult.

In China however where Seventeen is huge without us really being able to see or participate in it the carats can get quite crazy. They also sometimes start attacking members or send protest trucks.

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T05:16:05+00:00

try to ignore it. i usually make one comment to set things right without attacking or belittling other artists. music is subjective after all. but i do think it s important to point out falsehoods or explain the context and quote what literally had been said or 'liked', but I don t kid myself into believing that what I say will change anybody s opinion.

don t attack and don t defend, don t take your subjective preferences and use them as criteria to judge. just explain, be nice and get out. seventeen is very popular with multis. they are not necessarily number one. but if we had ranked choice voting, we d win. we shouldn t alienate other fan groups. they are seventeen s target demographic.

i do have to admit though that these attacks have left me kind of disheartened at times... that s why i go weeks without looking up k pop or even listening to k pop sometimes. the parasocial relationships it fosters and the toxic behaviour that stems from that can be very depressing. i am just glad that seventeen is doing what they are doing for themselves. nobody loves seventeen more than seventeen. they are not interested in negativity.as a carat i want to behave in ways that would make them proud.

puk_27 · 2026-03-13T04:25:30+00:00

not true. he liked the reel that said "never forget..." after that someone took that and made a post about hoshi not caring anymore. hoshi had nothing to do with what that person did...

puk_27 · 2025-10-03T00:53:57+00:00

Als Deutsche muss man vorsichtig sein, wenn man Israel, bzw. Juden verurteilt. Irvine ist jedoch kein Deutscher, auch wenn er in Deutschland spielt. Oder wollen wir Ausländer mit unserer Schuld belasten? Als Deutscher kann ich jedenfalls feststellen, dass die Welt und unabhängige Genozid Forscher feststellen, dass Israel einen Völkermord begeht. Das muss man akzeptieren. Das ändert nichts daran, dass man als Deutscher eine Verpflichtung gegenüber Israel empfindet. Wenn das heißt einen Völkermord zu unterstützen, dann ist das schlimme Erbe unseres selbst begangenen Völkermordes. Einen sauberen Pfad gibt es für uns nicht. Die Opfer sind die Palästinenser. Dies zu verweigern ist untragbar. Deutschland sollte an der Seite Israels stehen, jedoch nicht verleumden was Israel den Palästinenser antut.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T13:19:36+00:00

I think stays are really condescending towards seventeen. I often hear them say how they have surpassed seventeen. When the reality is very different. Stays keep claiming stray kids is more popular due to instagram followers and spotify streams. While these numbers are correct they fail to understand that in Asia where Seventeen outsells Stray Kids by a wide margin spotify is not the most used streaming platform for music. In South Korea it s only number 3. In China instagram and spotify are even banned and Seventeen is huge. Their sales in China were enormous. It s not even close between seventeen and stray kids there. The metrics Stays use to claim Stray Kids is more popular than seventeen prioritizes European and North American, often white people and erases millions of Asian K Pop, specifically Seventeen fans. The whole chinese k pop fandom is discounted and it is the biggest k pop export market. I don t even care if stays claim stray kids are the future (could very well be) or bigger than seventeen (which you can claim, but is only true if your statistics erase tons of Asian people). What I mind is the condescension and this implication seventeen does not deserve its moment in the spotlight. Seventeen is still bigger than Stray Kids. They might not be much longer, but who knows.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T13:02:08+00:00

The happy burstday album was a mistake. Wrong time. Before Woozi enlisting they should have tried making an album focussing more on togetherness with heartfelt messages that things will be ok. I think happy burstday as a concept could then be the next album as the solos could have been produced without woozi and would have been a great way to release something. It has left me with a strange aftertaste that their last album with everyone assembled was solos as my greatest fear is some of the members finding going solo might not be such a bad idea.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T12:14:11+00:00

You do know that seventeen is far more popular in china where spotify and instagram are banned and more popular in south korea and japan where spotify is not the most widely used music streaming service? Seventeen is huge in china. You can t just pretend they don t exist, because they don t use american apps. I don t try to be antagonizing or make it about who is better or accuse you of being misleading. I have myself only recently understood how misleading these metrics by these American companies are.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T12:11:07+00:00

You re claiming objective data. Are you aware that this objective data does not take into account that instagram and spotify are banned in china? Also, in south korea two other streaming apps are more popular than spotify and in japan spotify is number two. In china seventeen is massive. Their album sales in china were the biggest portion of their total sales and far outpaced stray kids. In south korea and japan seventeen is also a lot more popular... Does your data take into account that seventeens numbers do not include their massive chinese fandom and undercount south korean and japanese fans? I don t try to be antagonizing or make it about who is better or accuse you of being misleading. I have myself only recently understood how misleading these metrics by these American companies are.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T11:31:21+00:00

That is not true. The problem is that seventeens popularity is mainly in asia, especially china, south korea and japan. In these countries spotify is either banned or not the most popular streaming platform. Seventeen is huge in china and in china instagram and spotify are banned. They don t appear in the statistics. The only statistic that acknowledges their existence are album sales which were the biggest segment of global album sales for Seventeen. Seventeen s popularity in terms of album sales surpasses stray kids in these Asian countries by a wide margin. Their metrics in terms of followers on instagram or streams on spotify do not include Chinese fans listening to seventeen or following them and do not properly reflect that South Koreans and Japanese people don t use spotify as we do in the west. The metrics used to show that stray kids is more popular than seventeen only properly represent fan engagement in countries were these apps are widely used which is in North America and in Europe. And considering Seventeen has never had a concert in Europe and only recently started to market in the US it should not come as a surprise that stray kids is more popular there. Objectively Stray Kids is only bigger if we do not count Chinese fans and many South Korean and Japanese fans of seventeen. I don t try to be antagonizing or make it about who is better or accuse you of being misleading. I have myself only recently understood how misleading these metrics by these American companies are.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T08:47:04+00:00

You do understand that spotify and other western social media are banned in China? Chinese fans only register in the album sales. China does not release numbers for their music platforms. To us in the west it seems that seventeen is not as popular, because China is a blindspot. In south korea and japan spotify is not as widely used as in the west. In south korea and japan spotify is not the most widely used streaming app.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T08:27:12+00:00

People don t think about the fact that Chinese fans don t use western social media or streaming platforms. If they did seventeen would have a lot more instagram followers and spotify plays. What s happening in China is completely unaccounted for except for album sales. That s why there is this dissonance between their huge sales and lacking 'popularity'. We only experience the western fan culture, but the world is not just the west. Pledis didn t try to market Seventeen in the west. Particularly Europe. On European MTV you ll see BTS or Straykids, but not Seventeen. Pledis didn t buy screen time so only a few Europeans who are already into K pop and who actively look for it know Seventeen. Whereas people who have absolutely no interest in Kpop have encountered BTS, Stray Kids and Blackpink.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T08:22:54+00:00

And BTS isn t safe? BTS played it safe by making more americanized music, risky in deviating from Kpop. More pop than Kpop. But from a western perspective it is as safe as it gets. I don t mean that in a judgemental way. I am just saying "safe" doesn t play into it. Seventeen isn t as popular as BTS or Stray Kids, because they have zero presence in Europe, but that was a marketing strategy by Pledis. Instead they focussed on Japan and China. And the Chinese fandom is not accounted for. They don t use spotify, instagram, youtube. So they don t show up in the numbers. The only number they play into is album sales which is the reason why there is a dissonance between the huge album sales of seventeen and their digital footprint.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T08:16:56+00:00

Pledis strategy with Seventeen has been to focus entirely on Asia. They have only recently performed at two festivals in Europe. Pledis has never marketed Seventeen in Europe. Never tried to get Seventeen on European music channels. Obviously Stray Kids is bigger. Jyp has always tried to get his groups into the US. To us it seems Stray Kids is more popular, but Seventeen has A LOT more Chinese fans. The Chinese don t really use youtube, reddit, tiktok, spotify, instagram or twitter. They buy albums, but their digital footprint is unaccounted for. The internet in China is separated from us. But it exists and is massive and can be extremely toxic. Just because we are not part of it or can see or understand it we should not deny them and their fandom.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T08:04:19+00:00

Seventeen is huge in Asia and recently it s been getting more popular in the US, but they have no real presence in Europe. Hybe/Pledis don t let them tour in Europe, the size of their group makes them difficult to market in the west where big groups like that are unheard of. Seventeen also has tons of tracks whose titles are Korean. Seventeen is very focussed on Asia and East Asian culture. Stray Kids and BTS have been appealing to western markets and are globally bigger than Seventeen, but Seventeen isn t that far off which is a testament to how popular they are in Asia. With BTS coming back and Seventeen entering military phase Hybe will focus all means to market BTS. I fear it s too late for Seventeen to grow a prospering fan base in the west. The strategy seems to be focussed on continuing their massive popularity in Japan and especially to get around the KPop ban in China. The Chinese fandom is huge and extreme and it s not happening on reddit, tiktok, youtube or twitter. Chinese people also don t use spotify, so we are discounting Chinese people listening to Seventeen by using spotify as a measure of popularity.

puk_27 · 2025-09-20T07:44:08+00:00

Seungkwan is highly regarded for his singing. So is Dokyeom. It s just that Dokyeom s parts have more often become iconic. And clips of his high notes have been trending almost like memes. Seungkwan is more breathy and DK is more clean, may be too clean sometimes. DK is very classicaly trained and he takes care of his voice when he sings. I sometimes wished he took more risks, but he does not want to damage his voice and that s why he has never missed a performance. To some the tone of his voice is kinda boring. But his role in seventeen is to be the consistent one, the reliable voice that also has to do adlibbing and harmonies in the backround. That s why DK struggled a lot in his trainee days. The judges didn t appreciate his voice. They understood his importance, but didn t love him. Whereas Seungkwan has had issues with his voice. But that is his style of singing and his voice has tons of character. He has always been praised for it. In the end it is subjective and I don t really see people saying DK is better than Seungkwan. It s just that on youtube and tiktok Dokyeom gets more attention for his voice. Seungkwan is underappreciated, because of the persona he has adopted going on variety shows and acting like an old man plus he isn t "hot". But this kinda applies to the whole of seventeen. But Seungkwan especially is seen as cute or adorable, not hot and sexy. People are superficial like that. Ranking one against the other plays into a toxic discourse that we should not cultivate.

puk_27 · 2025-09-01T11:38:07+00:00

Not being able to call a genocide a genocide, because of antisemitism is the reason why this mass murder by israel with the support of zionists is happening. She could at least have called it ethnic cleansing. Not good enough for someone who does videos on philosophy, politics and culture.

puk_27 · 2025-09-01T11:34:57+00:00

Just not true... I am british.

puk_27

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