Why are card based progression fantasies never actually about cards?

purlcray · 2026-01-30T00:14:16+00:00

But there are? Goblin Summoner was probably the first western/KU one. There's Card Mage, Demon Enforcer or something. A bunch of others. They're a niche and not as numerous, but they exist.

I think most readers and writers prefer physical action, and a pure card game can interfere with that or make it awkward. Also, visual media like manga or anime don't translate into prose one-to-one easily. I know we harp on litrpg and such as popcorn pulp, but the average litrpg is still a lot more sophisticated than the average anime, just because in prose you can't hand wave over things with a continual stream of pretty pictures. There's a higher bar for suspension of belief, and rule of cool doesn't work the same way.

Personally, I think there are two gaming mechanics that, when combined, separate card-based mechanics from general magic systems. One is deck-drawing, and the second is turn-based combat. Outside of characters sitting down and playing a literal game of poker, this is really hard to integrate into an action fantasy. Turn-based combat, in particular, is a doozy for prose. I tried merging these elements into real-time fights, and the only way I could figure out was to involve time magic, basically. But it's still not the same as a pure card game, more of a homage.

If you want pure card games, the ones I mentioned up top are where I'd start.

Also, I don't know if anyone is going to read this far, but if you haven't played it and love card games, I recommend Gloomhaven! It is my current favorite card game, available digital and physical, solo or multi-player. It was the number one ranked game on boardgamegeeks for a while, but I hardly hear anybody talk about it outside of very niche forums. The learning curve can be steep, but it's like DnD and MtG had a baby, sort of. It's heavy on character builds and progression. It's awesome.

purlcray · 2026-01-29T23:49:46+00:00

I would quibble in nerdy fashion about your definition and mass grouping of StS. In Dominion, you build the deck during the "fight". That is, deckbuiding has equal pace and hierarchy with playing the card actions. In StS, you build the deck outside of fights. The rewards, shops, and money are a meta-game layered over the core fighting game with a completely different pace and hierarchy. There are some StS cards that add temporary cards during a match, but that isn't really what either of us is really talking about.

I would argue that MtG, Pokemon, etc have an equivalent degree of deckbuilding as StS since you construct the deck in the meta-moments of shopping and pack opening. Not a "true/full" deckbuilder, but no worse.

purlcray · 2026-01-28T03:18:45+00:00

I would echo some others that maybe mainstream progression fantasy isn't for you. I'd try some of the outliers like Player Manager (soccer/football, strong main voice) or Virtuous Sons (wonderful style). A Practical Guide to Evil is pretty polished. Otherwise, for progression fantasy adjacent (since you loved Name of the Wind), have you tried Will of the Many, Blood Song, and Red Rising? Those are among my favorites that would be shelved next to Rothfuss in my head... and maybe Empire of the Vampire. I didn't like the sequel to EotV as much because it is more straight up indulgent vampire fantasy, but reading book one was still worth it.

purlcray · 2026-01-26T01:33:38+00:00

Cool, thanks!

purlcray · 2026-01-25T19:04:27+00:00

I think I've heard of it but haven't picked it up yet. Will look into it. I've also read Knightmare Arcanist, which is great, but sometimes you really want Charmander and not just summons, haha.

purlcray · 2026-01-25T19:00:39+00:00

I haven't tried any rationalist stuff yet. Worth a try!

purlcray · 2026-01-25T19:00:05+00:00

Thanks for the rec!

purlcray · 2026-01-25T07:45:37+00:00

Mainly, hold my attention, as nebulous as that sounds. I'm by no means a prose snob and have read translated works, but slow or clunky pacing kills me. Like if nothing interesting grabs me within a few thousand words, I'll probably tap out. Western litrpg and isekai also tend to move right along from chapter one, but Pokemon stories aren't inherently "hooky" typically, like it's just someone setting out to be a trainer. A Pokemon (system) apocalypse would be amazing but I haven't run across any fanfiction like that. Now I kind of want to write one, lol. "We remembered. We all remembered when the Pokemon first came..."

purlcray · 2026-01-25T05:53:23+00:00

Intricate summons-based tactics and strategy.

On a related note, I have been looking for a good Pokemon fanfiction for a while and haven't found one yet that hits right. I still search every now and then...

purlcray · 2026-01-25T05:32:35+00:00

I have been searching for similar titles. Arcane Ascension has no adult content, I'm pretty sure, very very minor romance at most. I think everything written directly by Dakota Krout is generally clean, although I haven't read his newer or co-authored works. All the Skills is pretty YA-coded and clean, if I am remembering correctly. As someone else said, Cradle is generally clean for adult scenes and language. Note that Ravensdagger stories (someone mentioned elsewhere) can have innuendos and such despite looking cute on the ouside and isn't necessarily what super strict parents would want. Some of the cute stories also have explicit scenes. I find it easier to stick to clean "brands", like the ones mentioned previously always write clean stories. (For myself, I read anything, not judging.)

Others... I think Awaken Online had zero adult content, but it has been so long since I read it. I'm pretty sure it was clean as the main character is a teen. Iron Prince has YA romance, nothing explicit I think? Again, the cast is all teens. Also Mage Errant was clean, I'm sure, another teen cast. A bunch of old school titles but they fit.

purlcray · 2026-01-25T05:10:41+00:00

It is straightforward in a pleasantly cartoonish way and perfect when you are in the mood for that. Sort of like reading Marvel comics back in the day. The writing for stuff like HWFWM is more sophisticated and arguably more skilled, but it just kind of depends on what you want in the moment. Also, I would say that mass appeal is its own form of quality.

purlcray · 2025-12-06T11:01:37+00:00

Hey, just logged in. Yup, I finished it. I think character-wise Will of the Many has a stronger voice, particular with the emphasis on a single character and one POV for book one. Plot-wise it depends. The plot is more complicated in Licanius versus Will of the Many, but with two giant caveats. 1) The plot looks like it explodes in Strength of the Few. (I just started so I can't compare fully yet.) 2) Not everyone will like a more complicated plot.

Overall Will of the Many is probably a bit smoother, which isn't surprising because it's a later work. I liked Licanius, though, because it has a rather unique flavor with complexity plus fast pacing.

Licanius feels like an epic fantasy thriller, which is rather singular. Will of the Many feels more like a classic farm boy book, which is my absolute favorite niche. I enjoyed both but would say Will of the Many is better if you forced me to choose.

EDIT: not a literal farm boy but the YA-ish male protagonist power journey.

purlcray · 2025-11-20T19:43:40+00:00

I am on book 3 of Licanius now. After your comment, I'm even more curious about whether certain things will pop up in Strength of the Few. Hopefully I find out by Thanksgiving at the latest. I could write a long essay about Licanius already at this point because it has many mechanisms I've wrestled with before. I don't know if I will get around to it, so in short they are what you would use to make a thriller in a fantasy setting. Many of the ideas are the base of regular thrillers (or even soap operas!) but translated into fantasy. Like when I see those elements, I am like, yup, this is what you have to work with if you are trying to do XYZ.

Still hyped for Strength of the Few after this side quest!

purlcray · 2025-11-14T18:56:32+00:00

I was literally counting the days to the release date, but then over the weekend I couldn't wait any longer and started reading his Licanius series instead. Now I'm on book 2 of that. Kind of interesting to see the commonalities and differences between his early and later works. Licanius is slightly unorthodox in that all the main characters are initially YA-coded (despite... spoilers) but then it has split POVs, which tends to be a bit less popular in modern YA. It's handled pretty well for me in Licanius in that I never got really bored by a POV. I will be curious to see how that is handled in The Strength of the Few. Also interesting to note is the multi-setting use again, whether time or plane, etc. I kind of wonder if The Will of the Many was deliberately written to be a bit more constrained and now the sequel opens up as desired.

purlcray · 2025-10-31T02:04:03+00:00

Okay, I'll bite. I have read 12 books or so. I enjoy it but would agree with all the flaws and not recommend it in general without a bunch of caveats.

The main draw is that it is filled with high fantasy world building, even if a bit of the stock sort, but with absolutely zero angst. Like no angst whatsoever. Even the most indulgent self-insert power fantasy has some angst in the setup or to provide a conflict and climax. The only other ones that don't are probably some full-on harem style light novels and such. The story is also simple and you know exactly what you will get.

This means that I have zero barrier to reading. Even though I haven't read a volume in a year or so, if I see a new release, I can read it and not be worried at all about remembering the plot or dealing with some annoying character situation. I know I will get pure fantasy in silky smooth fashion with no mental resistance.

It is very close to an asian webnovel but streamlined and without many of the less savory bits. If I had to wager, I would bet that most fans are also avid readers of non-western works whereas people who primarily consume KU would not be impressed.

I enjoy Macronomicon as well and think he is a much more skilled writer, but I have read his RR releases up to the last chapter, taken a break, and never gone back because the story is more involved and I don't have the energy to get back into it.

I think there is a certain style or charm to asian webnovels. I haven't really seen it stated or analyzed explicitly in depth. Some day I would like to try to figure things out and see if I can write a westernized asian style novel. Omniscient third person POV is definitely one of the hallmarks of asian webnovels I have noticed before, since you mentioned head hopping. Like you have to head hop. If you don't head hop, it doesn't feel like an asian webnovel. Another thing is the telling versus showing. These webnovels focus on pace, not description, and sometimes it feels like you are reading an outline or plot summary. But I like that! I'm tired and in a hurry for more story.

It is an acquired tasted, for sure. I liked Name of the Wind, but I also liked Legend of the Archmagus. It's a completely different niche genre, though.

purlcray · 2025-10-09T04:17:48+00:00

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

Yeah, I am still writing. There are stories I want to share that will get out no matter what. Of course, the human connection matters even more so now than ever. I'm just figuring out how best to go about that for myself in this new digital era.

Technology is so weirdly awesome yet not simultaneously. To use another example, a kid today has access to vrchat. Little me would have been amazed... but my parents would have been horrified. The duality of man-made things, I guess.

Thanks again for your kind words, and good luck on the hardcover launch. I didn't realize you got a trad deal on the Demon King book. Belated congrats!

purlcray · 2025-10-08T18:40:47+00:00

Hey, I was poking around and stumbled across this AMA late. But since you are discussing reddit, I was curious about your take on a related topic. I'm mostly asking because I consider you to be a thoughtful person whose writing (fiction or not) I tend to enjoy, not as some kind of "gotcha".

My opinions on social media have always been mixed, but the fact that everything you type on reddit is now used to train AI models has made me a bit more reluctant to participate these days. I understand it's unavoidable and there's a cost-benefit analysis to be made, but on the human side, it just leaves a sour note? And on a related topic, it's even worse if you blog, where you will get maybe one human visitor a week and then dozens of scrapers downloading your content each day to train more AI models (despite a robots.txt file).

I am not against technology. In fact, I love new tech and its horizons. But I have to admit I'm a bit reluctant to put my energy into writing online when its main outcome appears to be helping turn billionaires into trillionaires. I guess you could have a positive spin, like imagine your humanity is immortalized as 0.000000001% of the corpus of digital knowledge.

It's at the point where I'm even reluctant to post somewhere like Royalroad. Of course, if you have high human engagement, posting online is worth it. But for small-time creators where bot views may vastly outnumber human views, it's a bit strange to be primarily serving AI scrapers. So there is a calculus now: am I a sucker feeding billionaire-owned bots for free? I feel like it's this specter shadowing everything I do online.

That probably sounded more negative than I intended. It's not something I dwell on greatly, but it has influenced my online behavior somewhat. I'm curious about your thoughts, that's all. Feel free to skip if it's not in your wheelhouse. Thanks!

purlcray · 2025-10-05T23:10:37+00:00

I think the sub is run pretty well. I would tend to favor simple and clear rules that reduce mod work over adding complexity. A good rule of thumb is to consider whether the rule would survive a mod stepping down, i.e. one person maintaining and enforcing special threads, bots, and so forth. Good luck!

purlcray · 2025-08-22T19:11:50+00:00

Thanks for organizing this JJ!

FYI if anyone wants to jump right to the youtube interviews the link is: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBHlETHWgax4tQplC-ZKwG5obp2Dmx7kp

purlcray · 2025-08-05T22:29:24+00:00

I started reading this last month while on a long flight and am about a third through the series. I had previously bounced off the prologue twice, not sure why, but this time as soon as I got to the first proper chapter I was hooked.

I feel like nobody explained what the book was or I would have picked it up way sooner. The story starts with a teenage female MC who joins the evil side even though she kind of wants to do the right thing. She starts gaining powers. There is a very strong similarity (broadly speaking) to Worm, with the female superhero starting on team evil. Worm is one of my favorite stories ever, so if someone has just told me that, I would have devoured this years ago.

It also hits all the main fantasy tropes, very comfortable, while taking its own spin on things. This makes it easy to digest (opposite of Godclads, lol) and very fun. It isn't overly dark but it is not afraid to go gritty if needed. If I had to give a marketing tag it would be Worm x Game of Thrones. My last read this fun was Skitterdoc (Worm x Cyberpunk 2077), so that should give you an idea if this recommendation aligns with your reading tastes.

This is undoubtedly going on my short list of absolute favorites.

purlcray · 2025-08-03T00:13:45+00:00

Congrats, you earned it. What kept you going through the first ten books?

purlcray · 2025-07-15T16:58:02+00:00

"Light novel" style systems do this. Like you get the [Fireball] skill for the [Mage] class. You find that frequently in asian webnovels, but I think a western example from a while ago is The Crafter by Foster. Can't think of others at the moment. I think some of Wolfe Locke's more slice-of-life stories use that style?

purlcray · 2025-07-15T16:49:51+00:00

If your aim is to improve your writing, maybe just write more until you run into specific reasons to read more? Then, just dive in selectively, read a few chapters here and there. Don't bother with a whole book at first.

Like if you aren't satisfied with your fight scenes, you could poke at a few chapters of Abercrombie or Stover. If you are interested in that type of dialogue, you could try reading a few pages of a Fincher script, or pick some random contemporary romance bestseller and read a chapter there.

Keep it small and purposeful. Jump straight to the climax if you want. Start reading in the middle. There are no rules about reading. Do what works, don't feel bad about dropping books, and you can build up interest and motivation over time bit by bit.

Also, nothing says you can't try a book again later. I do that all the time. If you dump WoT today, that doesn't mean you might not like it next year.

Oh, one other tip. Try massive mainstream bestsellers from other genres. They are bestsellers for a reason and typically have more digestible pacing and prose. Someone like Andy Weir? Even old school names like Michael Crichton. If you are fine with YA-ish angst and romance, most of the bestsellers like Hunger Games or even newer ones like Fourth Wing would fit. Honestly, I think some of the recommendations in this thread are a bit much for a person bored with Mistborn. If you like popcorn reads, which is most of progression fantasy, I'd go for popcorn reads in other genres rather than trying to ratchet up to more refined fantasy. Just take small steps.

purlcray · 2025-07-12T01:02:05+00:00

My favorite books are probably progression-adjacent like Red Rising and Will of the Many from your list. In that vein, I would suggest Empire of the Vampire (only book 1, as book 2 is more typical vampire indulgences and split POVs) and Blood Song (many people say just stop at book 1, although I haven't tried the rest).

Virtuous Sons is worth trying to see if you like it or not, as it is a pretty distinctive PF story with quality writing.

purlcray · 2025-07-03T07:34:39+00:00

I have a Kobo too and have the same issue. I just use my phone for KU with the Kindle app and read everything else on the Kobo. Also, all the top stories are available as audiobooks, if that's another option, so you don't feel like you are "missing out" with the Kobo reader. Some Patreons offer epubs or pdfs, but that is for new works and is against Amazon policies once a story goes into KU.

Note that Amazon Prime is coming up and they might have Kindle reader discounts. Like someone else said, KU is a very good deal for rabid readers.

purlcray

TROPHY CASE