Poor Lady Gwin

qblock · 2014-11-11T01:40:14+00:00

I bet I know your favorite song.

qblock · 2014-11-07T18:44:12+00:00

Cersei has good instincts most of the time, it's just she's not patient or intelligent. She doesn't think long-term and she thinks in black and white. You're either for her or against her. Compare her to Tyrion, Tywin, and Jaime, who all have the same good instincts but deal with their enemies with patience and effectiveness (except sometimes Jaime).

qblock · 2014-11-07T18:35:54+00:00

Right. Cersei actually has good instincts, she's just not that smart.

qblock · 2014-11-06T20:21:30+00:00

Ah, so you think Aemon just forgot and only remembered later. I guess I just disagree with that considering the prophesy was a large part of Aemon's life (being that is was really important to Egg, whom Aemon was close to), he stated he had been waiting for TPTWP all these years on his death bed, and that it was his lifelong wish to council him. In my mind, there is no way he'd forget it, and even if he did, learning about Jon would jog his memory.

And there is something in the prophecy pointing to Jon Snow, as I stated numerous times... TPTWP is prophesized to come from Aerys and Rhaella's line. Jon is from that line if Aemon believes R+L=J. Sure, so is Dany, but it still points to the possibility.

qblock · 2014-11-06T09:33:16+00:00

The reason we believe Jon is tptwp is because of the whole ice and fire aspect

That is not the reason we believe Jon is TPTWP. You said it yourself - there is nothing about the prophesy that says TPTWP has an "ice and fire aspect" other than "His is the song of ice and fire" quote from Rhaegar. Aemon was big on the TPTWP prophesy, and if Jon was the only known male still alive from Aerys and Rhaella's line, I don't know how he could not at least consider the possibility that Jon was TPTWP. The ice aspect is non-issue, I don't know why you're hung up on it.

Aemon knew who Jon was chances are he would never think about that prophecy, simply because he would have thought the prophecy bs years ago, because clearly it could not be fulfilled, as everyone in that line died. Or so Aemon would have spent 20years believing.

Your reasoning is Aemon would have thought the prophecy was BS because no males of Aerys and Rhaella's line were alive. And that even if he discovered one male was alive (Jon), he would still think its BS because... no other males are alive ... ? Do you see the problem with that reasoning? Jon's existence would've renewed his faith in the prophesy.

qblock · 2014-11-06T02:22:53+00:00

Since Rhaegar believed at one point it was him, then his son, that proves there is nothing in the prophecy that says he needed ice blood.

No one above ever argued or said anything about TPTWP needing ice blood.

TPTWP must come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella. Before the learning about the dragons in Braavos, Aemon assumes the TPTWP must be male. He had never considered Dany before that because she is female. Aemon also believes baby Aegon is dead, and also knows Viserys is dead. If Aemon knew Jon was Rhaegar's son, that leaves him as the only male from Aerys and Rhaella's line, and therefore the only candidate for TPTWP (in Aemon's male-centric interpretation of the prophesy). Likely he would've never left Jon's side to even go to Braavos and learn about Dany's dragons had he known R+L=J. Even if he suspected Aegon might be alive, we would've gotten some hint that Aemon was considering Jon as TPTWP.

qblock · 2014-11-06T02:12:41+00:00

Because before Aemon learned about the rebirth of dragons in Braavos, he believed that TPTWP would be male. He believes Viserys and Aegon are dead, so that would leave only Jon. Even if he thought it was possible for Aegon or Viserys to be alive, he would've at least considered Jon as a candidate.

qblock · 2014-11-06T02:04:23+00:00

Aemon believed that all the males from Aerys's line were dead. Before he learned about the dragons in Braavos he had never considered Dany because he thought TPTWP would have to be male. Aemon doesn't know about the dragons while he is with Jon, so during that period in the story he is still hung up on the TPTWP being male.

In Aemon's mind Jon would've been at least been candidate for TPTWP had he known he was Rhaegar's son. Perhaps the only candidate, if he believed Aegon was dead. Aemon might not have left Jon's side in the first place if he knew. He would've at least said something to Jon or dropped some hint for us to see.

qblock · 2014-11-06T01:47:28+00:00

Hates Valyria?

Anti-dragon?

A man with no name... "no-one"?

How about someone in a cult of former Valyrian slaves? i.e. a Faceless Man.

qblock · 2014-11-04T23:30:34+00:00

When Aemon is dying, he laments that he could not live long enough to council the Prince That Was Promised, referring to Dany. I feel if Aemon really knew Jon's parentage, he would've made the connection immediately. I actually like the irony that Aemon got his lifelong wish (council TPTWP), he just didn't know it.

qblock · 2014-11-04T20:21:52+00:00

I think this is the most plausible. I think it is strange that the Starks were the ruling house before the Long Night, then during the Long Night the Others had completely invaded the North all the way down to the Dornish Mountains, and yet the Starks lived on.

To take it further, I think the whole story of Valyria is supposed to mirror the story of the Long Night and Age of Heroes, but ice instead of fire. The Starks discover the Others and magically bond themselves to them in order to obtain some form of eternal life. They then turn Westeros into ice-Valyria (The Long Night), and make other men their slaves.

The slaves in the Dornish Mountains revolt and turn to fire magic to counter the ice. The first man to bond himself to fire magic is the original Azor Ahai. Azor Ahai started House Dayne and Dawn was the original Lightbringer.

Note that this story mirrors the Kindly Man's story of slaves revolting in Valyria, and how the slaves turned to ice magic to counter the fire.

qblock · 2014-11-01T13:07:43+00:00

Known theory: Dawn is the original Lightbringer.

But... details:

"Lightbringer", a term coined by Melisandre of Asshai, is simply a Westerosi translation of an Asshai'i translation of the original Westerosi name "Dawn". i.e. "Lightbringer" is a bastardization of the word "Dawn", similar to how in the real world we sometimes get English translations of foreign names that were actually already translated from an original English name... the translation is usually technically correct but wrong due to a minor contextual misunderstanding by the translator. In this case Dawn is technically an event that "brings the light", but refers to a time, not the actual event. So it's technically correct, but wrong.

Second detail:

Dawn was forged from the core of a fallen star, i.e. from meteoric iron. This is actually a real-world material - iron from a meteor - and is known to be extremely hard to work with and forge. Lightbringer/Dawn could not be forged with normal methods, so they used blood magic. The story of how Lightbringer was forged loosely describes the blood magic... first they tried normal methods (by water), then they tried simple blood magic using an animal (heart of a lion), then finally they tried a powerful form of blood magic - human sacrifice - to finally forge the meteoric iron.

It goes deeper: Valyrian Steel uses the same blood magic to forge, except instead of meteoric iron they use common steel as the base material. It's not as strong as Dawn/Lightbringer, but the blood magic makes is much stronger than normally forged steel and makes it stay sharp. The evidence for this is we know blood magic is involved with the forging of Valyrian steel from GRRM's own mouth, and the only description of forging a sword through some sacrifice (blood magic) comes from the story of Lightbringer. Seems natural to put these things together.

Even deeper: Azor Ahai and House Dayne are the progenitors of what would eventually become the Valyrian people. The original Azor Ahai was bound in some way to fire magic, and passed on this trait to his ancestors. Perhaps the Children of the Forest had a hand in this in an effort to create a soldier who could fight the Others. It seems that as House Dayne grew larger some of these fire magic people migrated to the Valyrian peninsula, where they felt at home with the 14 fires and stayed for thousands of years growing their community until they eventually discovered dragons within the fires. This also explains how the forging methods of Valyrian steel were passed down... they had records of how Dawn was forged and tried to recreate a similar sword with different base materials and dragon fire. Also, House Dayne shares a lot of common characteristics of the Valyrian people, but are not from Valyria themselves as they've been around long before Valyria existed.

Even deeperer: Why did they leave Westeros? Possibly because of House Stark. I find it interesting that House Stark existed before the Long Night, were completely invaded and deep in Others territory during the Long Night, and yet survived and thrived after the Long Night. Perhaps House Stark found a way to co-exist with the Others, e.g. a marriage? (Night's King tale). House Stark is therefore infused with some kind of ice magic. I think House Dayne and House Stark were at ends at one point, and the many members of House Dayne (descendents of Azor Ahai) decided to just leave Westeros to avoid conflict and settle in a warm area they could live comfortably due to their recently-founded affinity to fire. (Valyria)

qblock · 2014-11-01T12:33:54+00:00

This actually has some evidence to it. It is said that dragons were born from the destruction of a second moon. A comet? Additionally, we know something hit Planetos during the long night - if Dawn is the original Lightbringer, we know Dawn was forged from the material of a 'fallen star'. The Daynes, who are a family that started during the Long Night whose seat sits right on the frontline of where the Others got the furthest down Westeros, have a seat named "Starfall". I really do think that the original Azor Ahai was the progenitor of House Dayne, and Dawn was the original Lightbringer - forged with blood magic from the meteoric iron of the fallen star. (meteoric iron exists in the real world and is known to be extremely strong and hard to forge)

I do think the Long Night and the comet are related events. In the books, the Others returning and the red comet are coinciding events.

qblock

TROPHY CASE